Trying to reason increase in stipend to hospital...

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Update: We connected with EHC consultants and have presented our proposal to our hospital. We are still waiting to hear what they have to say but found out its likely that we are competing against Sound anesthesia AMC i guess and one of the rumored proposals is to go with them and switch over to all CRNA model. It seems far fetched but we have some questionable leadership as well. Considering we do all the labor epidurals and all the regional blocks, they would have to bring in alot of new CRNAs even if they managed to hire some from our existing group.
It’s gonna to be messy. The crnas aren’t stupid either. They all want the 1099 money and it’s gonna to cost sound anesthesia either $700-800k per crna locums full time (the militant 1099 crnas) who want the cash or $400k 1099 per crna per 40 hours with no calls and no weekends

At that point there is zero cost savings for sound anesthesia either.
 
It will be a rough 2 years to transition, but the hospital administration doesn’t care. They never want to be seen as “losing” a negotiation against a private MD group. The move is to go 1099 and watch the chaos ensue.
Sound anesthesia or whatever amc hospital admin wants to use will not lose a penny.

Hospital really doesn’t lose money either with all their federal subsidies. I don’t want to get too political (on this certain post). But see what trump did work yanking education stipends from universities. They immediately cut staff.

That will happen to many hospitals if any federal funding is taken away. Thad’s the only way hospitals will feel the pinch.
 
Met crna from broward health (ft Lauderdale Florida ) some of you may have gotten bombarded with emails from locums companies. who worked for the previous anesthesia private practice.

It’s pretty much a crap show broward health and Envison. So she left to do locums.

But it’s south Florida so they are finding takers for lower locums rates from both crna and docs.

People just don’t want to move or commute far. So take what they can get.
Lots of cheap nonstop flights to cities in the northeast. Many are doing locums for a lot more money there instead of getting ripped off in Florida.
 
Keep the ASC...go hospital employed (no overhead, not in charge of hiring), get all stipulations for hourly coverage in your contract, this is the most important part...it's easiest as one FTE covers X number of hours, but it has to be OR coverage so if a room isn't filled but someone is 'available' then that counts towards the hours. I talked with one of my previous groups leaders who worked with the consultant we had and this was the most contentious part. Hospital wants endless flexibility to open/shut down rooms but doesn't want to pay for your availability
 
Keep the ASC...go hospital employed (no overhead, not in charge of hiring), get all stipulations for hourly coverage in your contract, this is the most important part...it's easiest as one FTE covers X number of hours, but it has to be OR coverage so if a room isn't filled but someone is 'available' then that counts towards the hours. I talked with one of my previous groups leaders who worked with the consultant we had and this was the most contentious part. Hospital wants endless flexibility to open/shut down rooms but doesn't want to pay for your availability
They want Uber Anesthesia. Actually, Uber everything. We ain't using you. We ain't paying for you. I get it. I would want the same if I sat in their chair.
 
They want Uber Anesthesia. Actually, Uber everything. We ain't using you. We ain't paying for you. I get it. I would want the same if I sat in their chair.
Hourly is the best and fairest rate even at $300-hr (which is low these days). U want 24 hrs coverage. Gonna to cost u all 24 hrs even with me sitting around at home.
 
Is this an opt out state? So sound can switch to CRNA’s only? Or will the surgeons “supervise”
 
You're not in business to lose money. The ASC is an entirely separate issue and should not be considered as part of the hospital stipend problem. Someone's gonna have to be the hard-ass and say "this is the deal, this is what it costs, this is when we're available and how many staff will be available to cover it". Even before we became hospital employed (and even now) we work closely with the OR scheduling office. We have a "grid" telling them what is available each day. They want to open more rooms at hospital #2 that day? Fine - close rooms at hospital #1. We limit the number of rooms after 3pm, 5pm, and 7pm. We have people in-house 24-7 but we will not keep an excess of people around after hours. Our shift people go home when their shift is done. They do not start more cases than what can be finished by a certain time. If the limit is 2 rooms after 7pm, including emergencies, they do not start a case at 6:30 that will run until 7:30. It will have to follow.
This sounds exactly like the small community hospital I work at
 
We FINALLY signed a new contract. It took another 30 day extension but got it done. We had a good contract with good compensation and then our "CEO" came in off the bench and basically scraped what we had been working on for 4 months previous. The final contract we signed is not as great as far as compensation and the revenue guarantee has some weird clauses in it but my partner and I were so mentally exhausted from the 8 months that it took that we signed knowing we will likely be back at the table in probably 6 months to renegotiate some parts.
Robert and Howard from Enhanced Health Care were critical in getting this signed. If anyone has contract issues, call these guys, worth every penny truly.
 
Been following this story and I’m disappointed for you. If you considered your BATNA it would have been coming back as locums for a higher rate and then having proper leverage for negotiating a strong contract. Meeting half way is not the right play in this market. There’s no need to subsidize the hospital’s incompetence, you should make them pay. Is this in a desirable area?

We FINALLY signed a new contract. It took another 30 day extension but got it done. We had a good contract with good compensation and then our "CEO" came in off the bench and basically scraped what we had been working on for 4 months previous. The final contract we signed is not as great as far as compensation and the revenue guarantee has some weird clauses in it but my partner and I were so mentally exhausted from the 8 months that it took that we signed knowing we will likely be back at the table in probably 6 months to renegotiate some parts.
Robert and Howard from Enhanced Health Care were critical in getting this signed. If anyone has contract issues, call these guys, worth every penny truly.
 
8 months of working with the old, bad contract.

6 months of working with the new, meh contract + 6? months working with the new, meh contract.

So maybe like a projected ~20 months total that the hospital was able to delay. Hospital did a pretty good job IMO.
 
We FINALLY signed a new contract. It took another 30 day extension but got it done. We had a good contract with good compensation and then our "CEO" came in off the bench and basically scraped what we had been working on for 4 months previous. The final contract we signed is not as great as far as compensation and the revenue guarantee has some weird clauses in it but my partner and I were so mentally exhausted from the 8 months that it took that we signed knowing we will likely be back at the table in probably 6 months to renegotiate some parts.
Robert and Howard from Enhanced Health Care were critical in getting this signed. If anyone has contract issues, call these guys, worth every penny truly.

This isn’t a win at all. You’ll end up with below market comp and likely unfair staffing requirements. Your recruitment and retention will likely suffer.

When your “CEO” (who probably should be removed) came in, you should have just given notice and walked. No extensions. No half-way agreements.
 
The other issue I have seen, especially with private practices, is that the practice will negotiate from the perspective of preserving the business relationship with the hospital (as the CEO did in this case) at all costs. It makes sense. If the hospital ends the contract, the business entity ceases to exist.

The practice admin may unfortunately place the interests of the business entity ahead of its actual shareholder anesthesiologists (the two are not necessarily one and the same). Often, the end product is a subpar deal with poor compensation and onerous staffing arrangements. The constituent anesthesiologists may do better with an individually negotiated direct employment contract or via locums or other agreement.
 
The other issue I have seen, especially with private practices, is that the practice will negotiate from the perspective of preserving the business relationship with the hospital (as the CEO did in this case) at all costs. It makes sense. If the hospital ends the contract, the business entity ceases to exist.

The practice admin may unfortunately place the interests of the business entity ahead of its actual shareholder anesthesiologists (the two are not necessarily one and the same). Often, the end product is a subpar deal with poor compensation and onerous staffing arrangements. The constituent anesthesiologists may do better with an individually negotiated direct employment contract or via locums or other agreement.
Agree. Better to dissolve the practice. Negotiate directly with the hospitals. That’s what my brother did in California. Their 14 MD only practice dissolved

Still business as usual. Those who felt safer are w2 hospitals paid. Those who are the heavy hitters have this weird unit billing they agreed to Whatever the case my brother went from making 600/650k to 1 million 1099. Working less hours and taking more time off. It’s like his income doubled for less work with the new pay structure he negotiated 3 years ago.
 
Agree. Better to dissolve the practice. Negotiate directly with the hospitals. That’s what my brother did in California. Their 14 MD only practice dissolved

Still business as usual. Those who felt safer are w2 hospitals paid. Those who are the heavy hitters have this weird unit billing they agreed to Whatever the case my brother went from making 600/650k to 1 million 1099. Working less hours and taking more time off. It’s like his income doubled for less work with the new pay structure he negotiated 3 years ago.
And what type of pay structure was that?

Hourly pay for time in hospital (+ hourly for beeper)? Productivity based with guaranteed unit value?

Just curious as I think this is going to become more common going forward.
 
The other issue I have seen, especially with private practices, is that the practice will negotiate from the perspective of preserving the business relationship with the hospital (as the CEO did in this case) at all costs. It makes sense. If the hospital ends the contract, the business entity ceases to exist.

The practice admin may unfortunately place the interests of the business entity ahead of its actual shareholder anesthesiologists (the two are not necessarily one and the same). Often, the end product is a subpar deal with poor compensation and onerous staffing arrangements. The constituent anesthesiologists may do better with an individually negotiated direct employment contract or via locums or other agreement.
I’m confused? OP set up a nice package then his CEO (or the hospital CEO?) got them a subpar deal? If this is the Anesthesia group CEO, then why isnt he/she fired?
 
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