Tua

IPSIS: Formerly the Spine Intervention Society
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
bills will be liable if there was no EKG or if the EKG was read as normal, even though there were abnormalities.

if there was an EKG and it was indeed normal EKG, then this was just an incredibly rare, impossible to predict event.

unlike head trauma
 
Commotio cordis is the leading diagnosis. Of course differential broad. If it is commotio cordis then this is a 1:100,000,000 type event and unpreventable although would not be surprised to see a uptick in shoulder pad technology or rules in NFL/NCAA.

If this was to happen to someone he was in a great place for it to occur - 3-4 docs per team, onsite EMT, probably 10+ ATCs all trained in CPR. Most commotio cordis is fatal because happens on some random little league field with no one to do effective CPR or accessible AED.

Every NFL player gets at minimum an EKG during the pre-draft process and many have had an echo at some point in college for screening. If not annual EKGs during annual physicals. Unsure if they do echo for pre-draft or if teams get them on individual basis. NFL team docs have missed things and lost jobs over it but usually primary team doc + cardiologist is looking at the EKGs. High likelihood that he had EKG multiple times read by some highly trained people.
 
Last edited:
runfastnow said:
Commotio cordis is the leading diagnosis. Of course differential broad. If it is commotio cordis then this is a 1:100,000,000 type event and unpreventable although would not be surprised to see a uptick in shoulder pad technology or rules in NFL/NCAA.

If this was to happen to someone he was in a great place for it to occur - 3-4 docs per team, onsite EMT, probably 10+ ATCs all trained in CPR. Most commotio cordis is fatal because happens on some random little league field with no one to do effective CPR or accessible AED.

Every NFL player gets at minimum an EKG during the pre-draft process and many have had an echo at some point in college for screening. Unsure if they do echo for pre-draft or if teams get them on individual basis. NFL team docs have missed things and lost jobs over it but usually primary team doc + cardiologist is looking at the EKGs. High likelihood that he had EKG.
Click to expand...
Watch the play. He took a shot directly in the chest. Agree on CC.

That Little League analogy is spot on too. A pitcher gets a hot shot directly to the chest or he beans a kid in the chest. Such a random, freak occurrence.

If it's gonna happen, this is the place for it.
 
Does anyne know his vaccine status? I thought I read somewhere he had a booster in the last 1-2 weeks which could have been a setup for the CC??

I agree looking at the video CC was my first thought

I had myocarditis/pericarditis after a Moderna shot
 
specepic said:
Does anyne know his vaccine status? I thought I read somewhere he had a booster in the last 1-2 weeks which could have been a setup for the CC??

I agree looking at the video CC was my first thought

I had myocarditis/pericarditis after a Moderna shot
Click to expand...

FFS

its not the goddamn vaccine.

and post your echocardiogram or it didnt happen
 
ragnathor said:
Source?

Sounds like right-wing conspiracy nonsense.
Click to expand...

Ok, here is more of the black and white thinking IMO. It is funny b/c I posted on twitter that it was probably CC and all the vaccine nutjobs came of the woodwork torching me....these days with everything politicized it seems people have trouble thinking in the grey areas (where a lot of the truth dwells)

1. I asked a simple question about his vaccine status (may or may not be relevant). I don't have source b/c i am asking a question and looking for the source. If I had the source, I wouldn't be asking the question

2. We know that esp in younger males myocarditis is a very real side effect (this is well known), are you refuting this?

3. CC is very rare, and in a full adult even more so. Given #1 and #2, it is reasonable to consider predisposing factors, no?
 
The vaccine causes hyper-coagulability….just like Covid. It’s a stretch to connect the dots between CC and vaccine though. And if it’s true, it will be covered up….for the greater good. It will be awhile before anyone knows. His vaccine status will be kept hush hush….unless he’s unvaccinated.
 
specepic said:
Ok, here is more of the black and white thinking IMO. It is funny b/c I posted on twitter that it was probably CC and all the vaccine nutjobs came of the woodwork torching me....these days with everything politicized it seems people have trouble thinking in the grey areas (where a lot of the truth dwells)

1. I asked a simple question about his vaccine status (may or may not be relevant). I don't have source b/c i am asking a question and looking for the source. If I had the source, I wouldn't be asking the question

2. We know that esp in younger males myocarditis is a very real side effect (this is well known), are you refuting this?

3. CC is very rare, and in a full adult even more so. Given #1 and #2, it is reasonable to consider predisposing factors, no?
Click to expand...
You stated you thought you read somewhere he had a booster in the last 1-2 weeks. You can't remember where you read it even though the event happened 16 hours ago? I suspect it was tweet or facebook and not anywhere reliable.

Your supposition requires the following:
- he had commotio cordis
- he had a recent booster vaccine
- he had myocarditis due to the vaccine
- his myocarditis was asymptomatic or symptomatic and he was playing anyways
- the myocarditis contributed to commotio cordis which may not otherwise have occurred

I suppose it's possible, but it sounds like we're reaching pretty far here to blame the vaccine.
 
specepic said:
Ok, here is more of the black and white thinking IMO. It is funny b/c I posted on twitter that it was probably CC and all the vaccine nutjobs came of the woodwork torching me....these days with everything politicized it seems people have trouble thinking in the grey areas (where a lot of the truth dwells)

1. I asked a simple question about his vaccine status (may or may not be relevant). I don't have source b/c i am asking a question and looking for the source. If I had the source, I wouldn't be asking the question

2. We know that esp in younger males myocarditis is a very real side effect (this is well known), are you refuting this?

3. CC is very rare, and in a full adult even more so. Given #1 and #2, it is reasonable to consider predisposing factors, no?
Click to expand...
this should never have been brought up because it is nonsequitor.

this is irresponsible questioning.

www.indystar.com

Doyel: Don't let anti-vaxxers lie to you about Damar Hamlin like they did with Bert Smith

Some blame Damar Hamlin's cardiac arrest on Covid vaccines, and gullible people believe it. With NCAA ref Bert Smith's help, I'll prove they're wrong.
www.indystar.com

www.independent.co.uk

We need to call out the despicable response to Damar Hamlin’s injury | Voices

Conservative pundit Charlie Kirk leaped at the chance to spread conspiracy theories and medical misinformation
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk




for F sake, think about it, if you want to use no common sense and listen to lying right wing conspiracy theorists.

why would any football player - and many of them are anti-vax - take a vaccine during a season, while on a team that may end up being a #1 seed? makes absolutely no sense.
 
specepic said:
Ok, here is more of the black and white thinking IMO. It is funny b/c I posted on twitter that it was probably CC and all the vaccine nutjobs came of the woodwork torching me....these days with everything politicized it seems people have trouble thinking in the grey areas (where a lot of the truth dwells)

1. I asked a simple question about his vaccine status (may or may not be relevant). I don't have source b/c i am asking a question and looking for the source. If I had the source, I wouldn't be asking the question

2. We know that esp in younger males myocarditis is a very real side effect (this is well known), are you refuting this?

3. CC is very rare, and in a full adult even more so. Given #1 and #2, it is reasonable to consider predisposing factors, no?
Click to expand...
I'm just here asking the innocent questions...
 
look, i dont think anyone questioning vaccines should immediately be shouted down.

but, posting leading commentary or anecdotal evidence is dangerous and irresponsible.
 
Doctodd said:
Yup. Watched on tv….and however they edited it. You know what I mean, right? I’ll explain…..I wasn’t there. I didn’t examine him. I saw him from multiple cameras that were many if not hundreds of yards away….with his helmet on. I was at home….nowhere near him.
Click to expand...
Yeah but has he tried any PT in the last 6 weeks?
 
Angry Bob Barker GIF
Will Ferrell Snow GIF by filmeditor
 
SSdoc33 said:
look, i dont think anyone questioning vaccines should immediately be shouted down.

but, posting leading commentary or anecdotal evidence is dangerous and irresponsible.
Click to expand...

respectfully disagree. reasonable speech (and most speech for that matter) is not dangerous. The left likes to equate speech with violence which itself leads down truly dangerous paths, but I digress

trolling through twitter last night I read some pretty shocking stuff (including those that are 110% convinced a vaccine dose caused this and there is no way you can talk them off that ledge with any facts or reason). When tragedies and crises happen it is interesting to see what happens to human behavior (on the left and right)

there should be acknowledgement (of which there has been little) that the initial promise of these vaccines and covid policies have fallen very short. the combination of lack of effectiveness below initially stated promises combined with a lack of reconciliation of failed and detrimental covid policies has only fed the conspiracy monsters.

There has been significant damage to trust with public health officials and doctors in general -- and the medical community would be wise to recognize this and own up to the short comings of which there are many
 
the innuendo is not reasonable. it is clickbait on twitter posting conspiracy theories. the equivalent of shouting "Fire" in a crowded theatre.

and it is dangerous because it fuels misinformation and prevents people from getting and knowing more honest representation regarding medical treatment.



there should be acknowledgement (of which there has been little) that the initial promise of these vaccines and covid policies have fallen very short. the combination of lack of effectiveness below initially stated promises combined with a lack of reconciliation of failed and detrimental covid policies has only fed the conspiracy monsters.
Click to expand...
this is just flat out wrong. conspiracy theorists do not use data - they use a bully pulpit to sell their point, irrespective of truth.


vaccines have prevented a significant number of deaths from covid.

www.commonwealthfund.org

Two Years of U.S. COVID-19 Vaccines Have Prevented Millions of Hospitalizations and Deaths

Evidence supports the debate over whether or not vaccines help COVID management and transmission. Discover what ways COVID vaccines have helped.
www.commonwealthfund.org www.commonwealthfund.org


worldwide:
www.cidrap.umn.edu

COVID-19 vaccines saved an estimated 20 million lives in 1 year

www.cidrap.umn.edu www.cidrap.umn.edu

what else has saved 20,000,000 lives in a year?
 
Ducttape said:
the innuendo is not reasonable. it is clickbait on twitter posting conspiracy theories. the equivalent of shouting "Fire" in a crowded theatre.

and it is dangerous because it fuels misinformation and prevents people from getting and knowing more honest representation regarding medical treatment.




this is just flat out wrong. conspiracy theorists do not use data - they use a bully pulpit to sell their point, irrespective of truth.


vaccines have prevented a significant number of deaths from covid.

www.commonwealthfund.org

Two Years of U.S. COVID-19 Vaccines Have Prevented Millions of Hospitalizations and Deaths

Evidence supports the debate over whether or not vaccines help COVID management and transmission. Discover what ways COVID vaccines have helped.
www.commonwealthfund.org www.commonwealthfund.org


worldwide:
www.cidrap.umn.edu

COVID-19 vaccines saved an estimated 20 million lives in 1 year

www.cidrap.umn.edu www.cidrap.umn.edu

what else has saved 20,000,000 lives in a year?
Click to expand...
Meaningful use
 
to the anesthesia people out there: shouldnt this guy be waking up by now?
 
specepic said:
respectfully disagree. reasonable speech (and most speech for that matter) is not dangerous. The left likes to equate speech with violence which itself leads down truly dangerous paths, but I digress

trolling through twitter last night I read some pretty shocking stuff (including those that are 110% convinced a vaccine dose caused this and there is no way you can talk them off that ledge with any facts or reason). When tragedies and crises happen it is interesting to see what happens to human behavior (on the left and right)

there should be acknowledgement (of which there has been little) that the initial promise of these vaccines and covid policies have fallen very short. the combination of lack of effectiveness below initially stated promises combined with a lack of reconciliation of failed and detrimental covid policies has only fed the conspiracy monsters.

There has been significant damage to trust with public health officials and doctors in general -- and the medical community would be wise to recognize this and own up to the short comings of which there are many
Click to expand...

www.yahoo.com

Here’s Why Anti-Vaxxers Pounced on Damar Hamlin’s Collapse

Photo Illustration by Erin O'Flynn/The Daily Beast/Getty ImagesBuffalo Bills safety Damar Hamlin suffered cardiac arrest and collapsed after making a tackle during a Monday Night Football game versus the Cincinnati Bengals. While most saw a tragedy, anti-vaxxers saw opportunity.As of this...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
 
Suspect he is getting "above and beyond" testing and keeping him sedated throughout the entire process. Whether ICU team wants it or not the team/NFLPA will want "everything" tested/done even if they pay cash for it through the team/NFLPA and pressure them to make it happen.
 
SSdoc33 said:
www.yahoo.com

Here’s Why Anti-Vaxxers Pounced on Damar Hamlin’s Collapse

Photo Illustration by Erin O'Flynn/The Daily Beast/Getty ImagesBuffalo Bills safety Damar Hamlin suffered cardiac arrest and collapsed after making a tackle during a Monday Night Football game versus the Cincinnati Bengals. While most saw a tragedy, anti-vaxxers saw opportunity.As of this...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
Click to expand...

It has been interesting to see the reaction. I feel there are very legitimate questions to ask. Was he boosted recently? Was he feeling ill recently (covid infx)? Any issues in his prior or recent physicals?

I eventually gave up on twitter this week trying to reason with the mob. The hardcore vaccine conspiracy folks are really latching into this case. For those of us familiar with commotio cordis it looked really classic for that (although he should have been at lower risk given he is well out of his teenage years, so additional factors are relevant)

I would be very curious to know how far into the process they used the AED vs chest compressions only. With CC early use of AED v. important for recovery
 
lookin good

www.espn.com

Doctors: Hamlin shows 'substantial improvement'

Bills safety Damar Hamlin is beginning to awaken as he shows "substantial improvement," doctors said, including being able to move his hands and feet and communicate in writing.
www.espn.com www.espn.com


the story is how lucky this guy was to get the care he got. by all accounts, he should not be alive. doctors rule!
 
SSdoc33 said:
lookin good

www.espn.com

Doctors: Hamlin shows 'substantial improvement'

Bills safety Damar Hamlin is beginning to awaken as he shows "substantial improvement," doctors said, including being able to move his hands and feet and communicate in writing.
www.espn.com www.espn.com


the story is how lucky this guy was to get the care he got. by all accounts, he should not be alive. doctors rule!
Click to expand...
A lot of athletic departments are about to be doing some refresher training for sure!
 
At minimum annual AED/CPR and spine board training is done with ATCs and MDs at any reputable athletic department. There was already a push to get all coaches CPR certified. Hopefully high school organizations, NCAA, and pro leagues gets it done after this.
 
If ever a player needed to wear a guardian cap, it’s him
 
Agast said:
If ever a player needed to wear a guardian cap, it’s him
Click to expand...
You beat me to it. Exactly.

his Pacific Islander warrior culture thing will get him killed. We are watching his brain turn to Swiss cheese in real time
 
What the hell is going on with his right hand in this pic? This is earlier in the game. this is the same posturing with his hand that he had after the shot to the head.

he needs to be put in a dark room for a month




1726236434549.png
 
I like Tua a lot. My son asked me why? He like Hurts and Herbert. Well, the answer is he reminds of an old tired 40 something dad in his press conferences. Hope he retires so he has some quality of life when he does get to his 40s.
 
BobBarker said:
I like Tua a lot. My son asked me why? He like Hurts and Herbert. Well, the answer is he reminds of an old tired 40 something dad in his press conferences. Hope he retires so he has some quality of life when he does get to his 40s.
Click to expand...
Tua is 26 years old. he has aged 20 years in the last 5. at alabama, he looked like a high school kid.
 
SSdoc33 said:
What the hell is going on with his right hand in this pic? This is earlier in the game. this is the same posturing with his hand that he had after the shot to the head.

he needs to be put in a dark room for a month




View attachment 392233
Click to expand...
He threw like that at Bama and has always been considered soft.
 
he took a few big hits while at bama and had a couple of concussions in his 3 years there. it's time for him to give it up
 
jsaul said:
he took a few big hits while at bama and had a couple of concussions in his 3 years there. it's time for him to give it up
Click to expand...
At least 2 at Alabama. in 2022, he had 3 diagnosed concussions and a fouth that they called a "back injury" but it was clearly a concussion. Then on Thursday. Thats at least 7 major concussions. now, if you flick his helmet he will get one.

ill have a lot of respect for him if he retires. it is hard for him to see that he needs to when you are 26 and think you have a long career ahead of you
 
Remember he has a hip dislocation at Bama too
 
So much Dolphins drama…I was ripping my hometown Dolphins before and after they drafted Tua instead of the bigger, taller, non-injured, stronger-armed Herbert. Sure enough the GM Greer drafted Tua anyway. We had a Bill Belichik trained coach in Brian Flores who wasn’t a fan of Tua, but was still able to turn around a terrible team in a short period of time. Fast forward to last year and Tua still can’t win when it matters despite the best receivers in the league. Tua is now out forever probably and my prediction came true.
 
the draft is such a crapshoot tho.


the dolphins could also have traded down, gotten jalen hurts or jordan love and who knows who else. Cee Dee Lamb, Justin Jefferson, Brandon Aiyuk.....

all a crapshoot.
 
Ducttape said:
the draft is such a crapshoot tho.


the dolphins could also have traded down, gotten jalen hurts or jordan love and who knows who else. Cee Dee Lamb, Justin Jefferson, Brandon Aiyuk.....

all a crapshoot.
Click to expand...
not that one.....Tua just had hip surgery and would never grow taller or stronger. Herbert had a Howitzer of an arm at the combine. I didnt think it should have even been close.
 
Doctodd said:
not that one.....Tua just had hip surgery and would never grow taller or stronger. Herbert had a Howitzer of an arm at the combine. I didnt think it should have even been close.
Click to expand...
herbert hasnt won anything, either.

id rather have herbert, but numbers up till now are very close
 
SSdoc33 said:
herbert hasnt won anything, either.

id rather have herbert, but numbers up till now are very close
Click to expand...
obviously there are alot of variables, but Herbert is a big man and Tua is not. Not even considering the concussions.
 
size is not all.

look at how Cam Newton has fallen. he had 6 good years and that was it.

apparently, the average career of an NFL quarterback is 4 years so Tua was a year shorter than average.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top