Tufts vs Illinois vs CSU

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aquaticanimals8

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Hi all!! I could definitely use some help. I was accepted to Tufts and Illinois, and waitlisted at Colorado (CSU) along with others but these are my top.

I'm interested in wildlife medicine, specifically aquatics and conservation. I'm also interested in IVM which Tufts has. I know Tufts and Illinois have wildlife programs, does anyone know about CSU? Also, I would love to study or do a rotation internationally, anyone know where would be best to do this?

I'm also pretty invested in research. Which school has the best research program? Sometimes it's hard to tell just from their websites.

Location-wise, I think CSU is my favorite, and I know I would likely find out anyways after 4/15 if I'm accepted or not but Fort Collins is like SO appealing to me. I've been in MA for 6 years now, so I'm ready for a change, but I know the change comes with higher tuition...

So, tuition wise, Tufts (IS) and Illinois are a bit cheaper.

Does anyone have any recommendations about how I should weigh my options? Also, does anyone know if any of these schools have a better reputation than the others?
Thanks 🙂

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Hello! Illinois 4th year, but born and raised in Colorado. CSU was my dream school purely for the in state tuition, but I've been to FoCo many times in my life.
I'm interested in wildlife medicine, specifically aquatics and conservation
Illinois has extensive wildlife/exotics opportunities:
1. The Wildlife Medical Clinic: It's an entirely student run clinic that sees 2000+ critters per year ranging from the standard kidnapped bunnies and squirrels to foxes to bobcats to bald eagles. Students are in teams with 3-4 members acting as team leaders. Students work with the zoo med intern/residents to make treatment plans and stay with the patient from beginning to end. Teams rotate taking care of orphans and being responsible for triage intakes.

2. Ambassador Residents: @SportPonies and @SkiOtter both participated in this program and would be able to contribute far more than me to this.

3. Wildlife Epidemiology Lab: This lab is *prolific* in getting research done and out into the world of wildlife. It focuses on reptiles and amphibians at the moment pretty heavily due to the interests of the PI in that lab.

4. ZCAMS (zoological companion animal medicine and surgery): A service we have completely separate from all other services. They do essentially everything for zoo companion animals that come into the hospital. Sporty has done a rotation for that service and probably could describe it better.

5. New space: Our ZCAMS and WMC both have moved into new spaces in a newly remodeled building that was gifted to us by the main campus. Literally brand new.

6. Relationship with Brookfield Zoo and Shedd Aquarium: We have the opportunity to do clinical rotations off campus at both of these sites, and these sites specifically reserve seats for clinical year Illinois students. This even extends into our pathology services as we have one of the only zoological pathology residencies in the country.

7. Networking: Our exotics/zoo/wildlife network (either with the clinicians currently here or the student/alumni body itself) is extensive, and if you want to do something you can find someone to help you get there. This can be finding externships, research, summer programs, etc.
I'm also interested in IVM which Tufts has
I'm not sure what IVM is, so can't comment on this.
I would love to study or do a rotation internationally, anyone know where would be best to do this?
We have students do international trips (summer/clinical) every year (except this year). Groups have gone to Australia for zoo specific stuff every year (except this year). Shelter medicine has been going to Greece for several years. One of my 2020 besties went to Croatia for an externship.
I'm also pretty invested in research.
There are tons of research opportunities. We have a research summer scholars program where people are paired with PIs for summer research (some of which are paid). My 2020 bestie that went to Croatia also went to the vet school in Norway for a summer research the *whole* summer between her 2nd and 3rd year. I also know plenty of people that went to the service they were interested in and just asked if any clinicians on the service were doing any research and needed help. I know people who did research in therio, cardio, surgery, equine, farms, zoo med, etc.
Location-wise, I think CSU is my favorite, and I know I would likely find out anyways after 4/15 if I'm accepted or not but Fort Collins is like SO appealing to me. I've been in MA for 6 years now, so I'm ready for a change, but I know the change comes with higher tuition...

So, tuition wise, Tufts (IS) and Illinois are a bit cheaper.
So, real talk, as a Coloradoan that has now lived in the Midwest for 5 years and is moving back to the Denver Metro area in 80ish days: FoCo (and Colorado suburban/urban areas in general) are expensive. My bestie from high school is a clinical year student at CSU and her rent is double mine while she has a roommate and I don't. Part of that might be where in FoCo she's living, but its hard to say. Overall, FoCo will be more expensive in regards to cost of living than Champaign, 0 doubt in my mind. That's not even touching on the fact that CSU OOS tuition is more expensive than Illinois OOS tuition, which is more expensive than the Tufts IS tuition.

There was a Colorado native that was in 2020 here that was accepted off the CSU wait list as a "non-contract seat" where he was accepted, but had to pay OOS tuition for CSU. It was cheaper for him to come to Illinois OOS (which he did). He's currently practicing in CO and 100% does not regret declining his CSU non-contract acceptance to come to Illinois. I personally would have done the same thing.
Also, does anyone know if any of these schools have a better reputation than the others?
If by reputation you mean the rankings, the rankings are based primarily on non-educational factors such as research grant money generated. As far as educational parameters go, all three schools are essentially equal and grant the same DVM. Going to one over the other won't give you a boost in regards to getting where you want to go, including landing internships and residencies.

I'm going to tag @vetmedhead and @wheelin2vetmed as CSU peeps
 
At least from the VIN cost of education map, Colorado and Tufts are going to be pretty comparable in cost for you (Tufts a bit cheaper), whereas Illinois will be a good bit cheaper. Given that and that Illinois has a very well-developed wildlife program as detailed above, I would seriously consider going there.

I don't know much about Colorado's wildlife program - I know they have an exotics/zoo internship, but it's about 80% companion exotics, which I would guess reflects their caseload - much lower on the wildlife side. "Research program" is kind of broad - what kind of research are you wanting to do? Are you looking for a dual degree program (Colorado has that, the other two do not, to my knowledge)? Or just to get involved in projects while you work on your DVM?

Reputations/rankings don't really mean anything. These are all AVMA accredited schools and you're going to get the same quality of education at any of them.


Tagging @PippyPony in case she has time to talk details about Tufts
 
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Lol @battie I was just about to do a short summary and then tag you :laugh:
When you send home both your patients on Critical Care and have nothing to do, you coast through SDN on repeat lol.

Also wanted to add @aquaticanimals8 that there is a current 2020 grad who's goal is to be an aquarium vet. She did all the aqua vet stuff, did Shedd aquarium, etc. She's currently in her intern year and we'll see Monday if she got a residency. There's also a 2022 that is following in her footsteps.
 
Thank you all so much!! This has been very helpful, and I appreciate your detailed responses.

@battie IVM is International Veterinary Medicine. Tufts has a program which is very appealing to me! Also, Croatia and Norway sound awesome to me. Also, really good to know about cost of living in FoCo. I live in Boston now, so all these options are cheaper than here so I didn't really do any comparing.

@WildZoo I'm more interested in getting involved in research projects while in school. I'm also more interested in field research, I've been in a lab for the past 1.5 years and ready to get out!

The other thing I forgot to mention is that I have family in MA and CO, but not in Illinois. So, that's definitely a large pull for me too.
This definitely has made my decision harder, but I know I'm very lucky to be in this position! Thank you!
 
Tufts has the IVM certificate program and in the past had good research contacts for students who were looking to do summer research abroad. Those opportunities have been completely eliminated due to COVID, because the school is not approving any international travel and is not providing grants or any funding for those projects. While everyone is hopeful it will be "back to normal" at some point, I would not bank on that being an option for at least the next year -- and when it starts back up, I would expect that current projects/opportunities that were sidelined might take priority for a few years over new ones.

The wildlife program is great; you can find information about that by searching through some previous posts.

We do not have direct formal relationships with aquatic programs as far as I know -- I do know someone who did an externship at the New England Aquarium, but that was initiated & scheduled by her during her clinical elective time.

Real estate out here is surprisingly not much cheaper than Boston, especially if you are looking for housing east of 495 for any reason (significant other who works in Boston, etc), so I would caution against assuming it will be a lot less expensive in terms of cost-of-living (especially now; prices seem to have gone up with Covid because people are moving out of the city).

Congrats on your acceptances and good luck on the decision-making process!
 
Also, I'm not sure where you're seeing the lower cost of tuition for Tufts vs the other schools...? As far as I know (and based on a quick look at the VIN calculator), Tufts is the most expensive of the 3 schools when calculated out for 4 years. Total cost of attendance + loan accrual is >$400,000.

The amount of IS funding for Massachusetts students varies from year to year and has been lowered a lot since I started (I was out of state, so I may be off on the details here, but I think it was like $8k off of tuition when I applied, now it's about $4k cheaper IS vs OOS, if I'm not mistaken). Anyways, I would not bank on the amount of state subsidy being a guarantee, either, unless you were told otherwise by financial aid.
 
The amount of IS funding for Massachusetts students varies from year to year and has been lowered a lot since I started (I was out of state, so I may be off on the details here, but I think it was like $8k off of tuition when I applied, now it's about $4k cheaper IS vs OOS, if I'm not mistaken).
For the 20/21 year Tufts IS tuition was about 7k less than OOS, I guess I am hoping for a similar cost for the next year! If it remains around the same, Tufts and Illinois are about the same tuition-wise (not cost of living), and CSU is about 10k more a year.
 
@WildZoo I'm more interested in getting involved in research projects while in school. I'm also more interested in field research, I've been in a lab for the past 1.5 years and ready to get out!
Lots of wildlife field research going on at Illinois, at least in the past few years! I feel like half the students presenting posters at the last couple ExoticsCon and AAZV conferences were Illinois students haha
 
For the 20/21 year Tufts IS tuition was about 7k less than OOS, I guess I am hoping for a similar cost for the next year! If it remains around the same, Tufts and Illinois are about the same tuition-wise (not cost of living), and CSU is about 10k more a year.
Ah gotcha. Hmm, for some reason I thought it was less now.

Not to harp on this, but I would absolutely factor in cost of living (and loan accrual) to your total calculations unless you have another source of income or will be paying for tuition outright. It makes a big difference over 4 years given the loan interest rates.

Don't get me wrong -- I like my school very much overall and I believe they have given me an excellent education, but I've seen a lot of dreams dashed in the last year in your particular areas of interest. A friend who scored an incredibly competitive international research grant spent basically a sabbatical year at home in New England doing her research from there instead of in the field. (May not be a problem in future years, but something to consider). Some of my classmates have had to reconsider their career plans due to debt -- particularly a few of them who were interested in zoo med/wildlife but cannot afford to do an internship.

Basically, I don't want to be a downer, and I think you'd get a great education here, but I would hate for someone to think their opportunities are comparable based solely on tuition cost and then end up disappointed later on.
 
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particularly a few of them who were interested in zoo med/wildlife but cannot afford to do an internship
This is a huge, huge consideration for anyone hoping to get into the zoo/wildlife world. I've had a few classmates too who changed plans because it just wasn't financially feasible. And then even after you get out of the extra training (if you go that route), it's not like they're very high-paying jobs most of the time.

So if that's your dream @aquaticanimals8, I would decrease costs wherever you can.
 
So if that's your dream @aquaticanimals8, I would decrease costs wherever you can.
And this does not include living in a box with no heat or skimping on takeout food & netflix. Vet school is extremely emotionally taxing at times, and allowing for physical comfort & spending money is very important for mental health.

Just re-emphasizing because I think sometimes people look at cost of tuition and think "I'm frugal, I can save on living costs!" and then realize later on that not everything can be cut out of a happy functional life -- particularly when you're pulling 16 hour days in the clinic in 4th year.
 
Hello! Illinois 4th year, but born and raised in Colorado. CSU was my dream school purely for the in state tuition, but I've been to FoCo many times in my life.

Illinois has extensive wildlife/exotics opportunities:
1. The Wildlife Medical Clinic: It's an entirely student run clinic that sees 2000+ critters per year ranging from the standard kidnapped bunnies and squirrels to foxes to bobcats to bald eagles. Students are in teams with 3-4 members acting as team leaders. Students work with the zoo med intern/residents to make treatment plans and stay with the patient from beginning to end. Teams rotate taking care of orphans and being responsible for triage intakes.

2. Ambassador Residents: @SportPonies and @SkiOtter both participated in this program and would be able to contribute far more than me to this.

3. Wildlife Epidemiology Lab: This lab is *prolific* in getting research done and out into the world of wildlife. It focuses on reptiles and amphibians at the moment pretty heavily due to the interests of the PI in that lab.

4. ZCAMS (zoological companion animal medicine and surgery): A service we have completely separate from all other services. They do essentially everything for zoo companion animals that come into the hospital. Sporty has done a rotation for that service and probably could describe it better.

5. New space: Our ZCAMS and WMC both have moved into new spaces in a newly remodeled building that was gifted to us by the main campus. Literally brand new.

6. Relationship with Brookfield Zoo and Shedd Aquarium: We have the opportunity to do clinical rotations off campus at both of these sites, and these sites specifically reserve seats for clinical year Illinois students. This even extends into our pathology services as we have one of the only zoological pathology residencies in the country.

7. Networking: Our exotics/zoo/wildlife network (either with the clinicians currently here or the student/alumni body itself) is extensive, and if you want to do something you can find someone to help you get there. This can be finding externships, research, summer programs, etc.

I'm not sure what IVM is, so can't comment on this.

We have students do international trips (summer/clinical) every year (except this year). Groups have gone to Australia for zoo specific stuff every year (except this year). Shelter medicine has been going to Greece for several years. One of my 2020 besties went to Croatia for an externship.

There are tons of research opportunities. We have a research summer scholars program where people are paired with PIs for summer research (some of which are paid). My 2020 bestie that went to Croatia also went to the vet school in Norway for a summer research the *whole* summer between her 2nd and 3rd year. I also know plenty of people that went to the service they were interested in and just asked if any clinicians on the service were doing any research and needed help. I know people who did research in therio, cardio, surgery, equine, farms, zoo med, etc.

So, real talk, as a Coloradoan that has now lived in the Midwest for 5 years and is moving back to the Denver Metro area in 80ish days: FoCo (and Colorado suburban/urban areas in general) are expensive. My bestie from high school is a clinical year student at CSU and her rent is double mine while she has a roommate and I don't. Part of that might be where in FoCo she's living, but its hard to say. Overall, FoCo will be more expensive in regards to cost of living than Champaign, 0 doubt in my mind. That's not even touching on the fact that CSU OOS tuition is more expensive than Illinois OOS tuition, which is more expensive than the Tufts IS tuition.

There was a Colorado native that was in 2020 here that was accepted off the CSU wait list as a "non-contract seat" where he was accepted, but had to pay OOS tuition for CSU. It was cheaper for him to come to Illinois OOS (which he did). He's currently practicing in CO and 100% does not regret declining his CSU non-contract acceptance to come to Illinois. I personally would have done the same thing.

If by reputation you mean the rankings, the rankings are based primarily on non-educational factors such as research grant money generated. As far as educational parameters go, all three schools are essentially equal and grant the same DVM. Going to one over the other won't give you a boost in regards to getting where you want to go, including landing internships and residencies.

I'm going to tag @vetmedhead and @wheelin2vetmed as CSU peeps
Damn, what's your rent?

CSU does have exotics research projects but they're largely in companion exotics since, as mentioned above, that's most of the caseload. There is however a ton of opportunities for research in general, and they have a lot of things like summer research scholars and whatnot. There is a lot of interest in getting students involved in research.

They do work for the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo and also I think sometimes the Denver Zoo, so it's not like there's never any wildlife/zoo stuff. Some of our anesthesiologists here also do a good amount of zoo work and they do have a summer program where they take one or two interested students with them to the San Diego Zoo to work on projects to develop anesthesia protocols for various zoo animals, which is pretty cool.

Frankly a lot of exotics/zoo work is going to be about the amount of leg work you put in yourself for opportunities no matter where you go. Even places with very heavy programs in it often don't have huge enough opportunities that it makes up a bulk of your clinical or classwork work or anything so there are lots of outside opportunities that people seek, which someone from any school can do. I have several friends who did things like AquaVet for example.

Our faculty are also well connected and do a lot of work helping connect interested students with opportunities.
 
Damn, what's your rent?
Mines $504/mo granted I live in a modular which would have been like closer to $700-800/mo if we had to finance BUT there was definitely some ok apartments for the same 500-600 range amount depending on what you wanted in an apartment when I was looking.

Commenting as an previous CO resident who went to a cheaper OOS than CSU would have been for my IS.🙃


@battie I'm looking to maybe go around the Bennett/ Strausburg area on my short list of areas to go to and housing prices just make me sad eventhough it's east of Denver-at least I'd get some land makes it a little more reasonable. Really though housing in CO has gotten ridiculous even down south where my parents are.😕
 
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Mines $504/mo granted I live in a modular which would have been like closer to $700-800/mo if we had to finance BUT there was definitely some ok apartments for the same 500-600 range amount depending on what you wanted in an apartment when I was looking.

Commenting as an previous CO resident who went to a cheaper OOS than CSU would have been for my IS.🙃


@battie I'm looking to maybe go around the Bennett/ Strausburg area on my short list of areas to go to and housing prices just make me sad eventhough it's east of Denver-at least I'd get some land makes it a little more reasonable. Really though housing in CO has gotten ridiculous even down south where my parents are.😕
This is very similar to my rent but granted I do live with roommates

I know classmates who are paying significantly more than me so I'm always curious of the frame of reference for people when they talk about their friends paying exorbitant rent. COL is huge in CO regardless and finding cheaper housing is really difficult but it is interesting to see the spectrum. My first place that I lived in until the end of first year I paid even less for rent than you do now, actually. Took a bit to find it though
 
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