Tuition For Residency Programs???

[deeps005]

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Hi, I was just doing a search on some ortho residency programs and all the ones I came across charge tuition! I thought we were supposed to be getting paid during residency...not going further in debt! anyone know what the deal is with this or know of any programs that pay you instead of you paying them? Thanks in advance.

 

[dentite001]

When you consider how much more money you will make if you specialize, the tuition fees to do it are rather insignificant. It's about supply and demand. You need them, they don't need you. I've heard of orthodontists making up to 400k net a year. If that is the case, you'll have paid for the specialization and the time you could have been practicing as a general dentist in a couple of years.

 

[Hildergard]

Wow I did not know that you still have to pay for your residency 😱

 

[Yah-E]

ortho blows......all of the dental residency will make you pay tuition except OMFS, Pedo, some Perio and some Ortho.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Wow I did not know that you still have to pay for your residency 😱

It's post-graduate education, so with GME funding cuts you usually do have to pay.

 

[dort-ort]

When you consider how much more money you will make if you specialize, the tuition fees to do it are rather insignificant. It's about supply and demand. You need them, they don't need you. I've heard of orthodontists making up to 400k net a year. If that is the case, you'll have paid for the specialization and the time you could have been practicing as a general dentist in a couple of years.

I don't understand why people spread misinformation. 400K net/yr.? give me a break dude. Maybe 10 yrs into practice and you have your own office. Otherwise I think not. This seems to be the reason why many want to go into ortho because they hear stuff like this and want to go into ortho for the wrong reasons. What a bunch of dog poop.

 

[north2southOMFS]

I think you may be a little misinformed about your dog poop. It is very common for an orthodontist to make that much money, if your willing to go where the demand for one is, buy a practice and work more than 3 days a week. And I thought 400k/year was a low ball number. We work with orthodontist all the time and those guys are doing very well.

 

[dort-ort]

I think you may be a little misinformed about your dog poop. It is very common for an orthodontist to make that much money, if your willing to go where the demand for one is, buy a practice and work more than 3 days a week. And I thought 400k/year was a low ball number. We work with orthodontist all the time and those guys are doing very well.

I agree with your comment about "if your willing to go where the demand is" however, the guy's post was referring to NET 400K/yr, which is misinformation. Grossing 400K/yr is the norm. Then remove the overhead and there you go. All you need to do is look in the journal of clinical orthodontics report. You will not see 400K/yr as the avg. income. it is less than your 400k/yr quote. and they are reporting the avg. So your comment on 400K being a low ball number is seriously erroneous - period. Sure there are out-lyers in every statistical comparison so I am not saying no one does that amount however, thats why I mentioned it is plausible once you have your own practice and are out 10 yrs. I just don't like it when things like this are passed around because it makes others go into this noble specialty for the wrong reasons. catch my drift? and I don't mean to sound argumentative.

 

[DDSSlave]

I agree with your comment about "if your willing to go where the demand is" however, the guy's post was referring to NET 400K/yr, which is misinformation. Grossing 400K/yr is the norm. Then remove the overhead and there you go. All you need to do is look in the journal of clinical orthodontics report. You will not see 400K/yr as the avg. income. it is less than your 400k/yr quote. and they are reporting the avg. So your comment on 400K being a low ball number is seriously erroneous - period. Sure there are out-lyers in every statistical comparison so I am not saying no one does that amount however, thats why I mentioned it is plausible once you have your own practice and are out 10 yrs. I just don't like it when things like this are passed around because it makes others go into this noble specialty for the wrong reasons. catch my drift? and I don't mean to sound argumentative.

I agree with you that this profession often attracts prospective student due to income. However, the residents I know seem very humble and genuinley interested in the orthodontics and not the income. Having said that, according to your source, clinical orthodontics vol. 38, no. 1, the median net income was 350k in 2002. 400k in 2004 may be on the high end, but is not seriously erroneous.

 

[toofache32]

If I remember correctly, the ortho programs that charge tuition are the Masters Degree programs where you are technically a grad student and pay tuition like any grad student. My classmates also had to take the GRE for that same grad school reason.

 

[River13]

I just don't like it when things like this are passed around because it makes others go into this noble specialty for the wrong reasons. catch my drift? and I don't mean to sound argumentative.

noble...🙂

 

[quakinator]

Honestly, anyone in the dental field can make 400K net. I know a gp that has been practicing in my town for about 17 years and is netting 400k+. This is in Utah, Provo area, which is considered by some to be one of the most saturated markets for dentists. If he can do it here, you can do it anywhere, provided you are a top quality dentist and have the right business plan!

 

[Hildergard]

Honestly, anyone in the dental field can make 400K net. I know a gp that has been practicing in my town for about 17 years and is netting 400k+. This is in Utah, Provo area, which is considered by some to be one of the most saturated markets for dentists. If he can do it here, you can do it anywhere, provided you are a top quality dentist and have the right business plan!

Dude, this is pretty much at the same level with what orthopedic surgeons make (right after residency). Not bad indeed. 🙄

 

[texas_dds]

haha 400
well i just wrote up a business plan for my future start up ortho practice and my conservative estimate for my first year out will be a doctor's salary of $65K (after taxes and ALL overhead subtracted)

 

[dort-ort]

haha 400
well i just wrote up a business plan for my future start up ortho practice and my conservative estimate for my first year out will be a doctor's salary of $65K (after taxes and ALL overhead subtracted)

A BIG THANK YOU to texas dds for bringing some reality to this issue. I am in total agreement with you!!! I don't understand why many post these huge inflated ortho income numbers -- it just isn't true. The key point people don't seem to understand is that those big numbers apply only to people who have their own practices and have gained reputation in their community and have a good referral base. These things take time to accomplish -- like ten years worth of time on average. I really get a huge chuckle when people throw those large income numbers around because it only attracts disingenuous people into ortho. And by golly I don't like that!! If you really want to make money fricken go into ENDO. Anyways, I talk to many recent ortho grads and they come to the realization that out in the real world (starting out as an associate) YOU DON'T ever get the kind of nonsense income these people report on here. This is when the bubble of reality finally bursts for most people who decide they want to do ortho for the money.

And another thing I've noticed, if you peruse through the Medical forum threads -- it is rare that any of those involve money issues. However in the dental forums it is pervasive. Isn't that a funny thing. Does anybody else notice this?? It just goes to show the differences in the general mind set among the two groups. It seems in dental forum its MONEY, money, money. Just forget about it and focus on your dentistry. And if you prefer to specialize, go for the specialty that you feel you are best at and excites you the most. Do not go into it for the wrong reasons. And another thing, if you can't decide on what you want to do -- this means you need to be a GP! A lot of people don't realize (if you want to talk about income) that many GP's make more than specialists. This I believe will be the norm in the future as elective cosmetic procedures gain wider acceptance. So all those that want to go where the money is --- GO into a cosmetic general practice. Anyways, had to put my 2 cents into this discussion.

Texas DDS -- did you use sky financial as your lender?

 

[north2southOMFS]

TEXAS DDS,

An Orthodontist, and your business plan is 65K per year....

dude, one word......................


OFFICE MANAGER.

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And hey, Dort-ort

who said you can't buy into a solid practice and make that much. Not everyone starts their own practice. Of course a startup practice will yield low numbers....they don't have any referrals yet.

 

[Jone]

Interesting observation, BUT, I know siblings and friends from various medical schools, and the MONEY topic seems to be a bigger issue amongst their students than it is in my dental school. But that's just my school I'm comparing to...

And another thing I've noticed, if you peruse through the Medical forum threads -- it is rare that any of those involve money issues. However in the dental forums it is pervasive. Isn't that a funny thing. Does anybody else notice this?? It just goes to show the differences in the general mind set among the two groups. It seems in dental forum its MONEY, money, money.
Texas DDS -- did you use sky financial as your lender?

 

[dentite001]

Alright. I mentioned 400K as a ballpark figure. I've heard that quoted as the magic number on these boards previously. The point I was trying to make was that in the long run, any additional training, even if its just an AEGD or GPR, is going to be well worth it over the long term. Noble? If that was your utmost intention then why didn't you go to medical school? Part of the attraction of dentistry is the flexibility of the profession. Most people don't do it because they are simply fascinated by teeth. They are after all, just teeth.

 

[dort-ort]

Alright. I mentioned 400K as a ballpark figure. I've heard that quoted as the magic number on these boards previously. The point I was trying to make was that in the long run, any additional training, even if its just an AEGD or GPR, is going to be well worth it over the long term. Noble? If that was your utmost intention then why didn't you go to medical school? Part of the attraction of dentistry is the flexibility of the profession. Most people don't do it because they are simply fascinated by teeth. They are after all, just teeth.

Yes, NOBLE. There are many low-income families out there that can't afford ortho. The kids who require ortho in these types of families really needs them. They are very nice kids however they tend to have low self-esteem, poor social skills, and are usually introverts. All because they are made fun of at school day in and day out.

I accept at least 10 cases (or more) of children from low income families and do treatment at no cost. Upon completion of treatment -- there's a huge positive impact on their personalities. YES. I DO THINK IT'S NOBLE. This applies to any type of dentistry done in this context. kinda sad that it has to be explained. and it has nothing to do with medical school.

Just teeth??? what kind of a comment is that?