Turning down away rotations after accepting them

Started by vicinihil
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vicinihil

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I'm just wondering what the effect turning down an away rotation after accepting them would have on your application?

eg: I told school x that I was going to take the away rotation but now received a better offer from school y and wish to go to School y instead.

Thanks!
 
I wouldn't go back on your word. I'm not terribly sure why you accepted a spot that you might not want in the first place, but I wouldn't set about pissing off programs just to go to a school you may like better from the outside for whatever reason.
 
I wouldn't hold your breath for an interview offer.
I know that the clerkship coordinator at my school sends out names/schools of people who accept and then cancel to the individual departments. What those departments decide to do with that information come residency application time is up to them...
 
Im going to tell you an anectdote, than give you a contradictory theoretical response.

Anecdote. I friend my mine wanted Uro. He signed up for three aways. After the first, he realized that "how crap, this **** is hard..." and didn't want to do three straight months. He told the THIRD place that he just wasn't going to do it. They had 2 months notice, a long waiting list, and certainly didn't need him. He did not get an interview at the place he canceled, but matched his first choice, the place where he DID do an away.

Theory. Medicine is a really small world. There just aren't enough people in this field to not have something come back and bite you. Is it ok to give them advanced notice, saying "nvm, my b?" Sure it is. But just remember, you aren't going to get an interview there, and probably, SOMEONE will remember you as the jack ass who bailed on them. Its impact? Maybe its nothing. But maybe the person who feels burned happens to have a lot of PD friends, who, not being malicious, talks poorly about you to his friends. Maybe one day that guy is the president of AMA and you want a political position, but he remembers you.

Unlikely, right? yeah. Chances are the impact is minimal; you won't get an interview at that ONCE place, and then it will never again hurt you. But unless you've got a good reason not to, why not just do it?

Ultimately, its up to what you want. As the anecdote shows, it didn't hurt that guy too much. Chances that it hurts you in the long run? Slim. I've learned that any of those slim chances you can actually control, you should control, and probably avoid (by just doing the away).
 
If you need to cancel in order to do an away at a program you like better then you may just have to do what you have to do. But I agree with the others that you should go into it realizing you'll probably hurt your chances at the place you cancel with.

Ultimately though, if it gets you into a place you like more then isn't that the goal?

And hopefully you're giving the program a little notice and it's not a last minute thing.
 
I really appreciate all your helpful responses. To clarify, the place I accepted because they got back to me so early and I feel like the field I'm going into is very intimate and small that getting an away rotation is tough. Therefore take what you're given. I guess I should have withdrawn from all the other places I accepted and not have to put myself in such a dilemma. Both programs are excellent and I wouldn't be at fault going to either.

Do you guys think going to a very high powered institution for an away and generating a good letter of rec will help me through my application process or do you think that the faculty will not know you well enough in 1 month to do so?
 
vicinihil said:
Do you guys think going to a very high powered institution for an away and generating a good letter of rec will help me through my application process or do you think that the faculty will not know you well enough in 1 month to do so?
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I think getting an LOR from an away rotation should be one of your goals, yes. I'm honestly not sure if certain "caliber" programs would be more or less likely to get you the kind of recognition by important faculty you'd want/need for a strong LOR, though.
 
GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
I think getting an LOR from an away rotation should be one of your goals, yes. I'm honestly not sure if certain "caliber" programs would be more or less likely to get you the kind of recognition by important faculty you'd want/need for a strong LOR, though.
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I don't think it's necc about what institution you're at but about the national reputation of someone who is writing your letter. While there may be a higher concentration of well-known ppl at more reputed institutions, there's no guarantee you'd work with them enough to get a letter...

I just chose to rotate at programs I liked. I think in the end that's probably your best strategy.
 
On the other hand...at my med school the away rotations were handled by the registrar. Scheduling had nothing to do with the individual residency programs and if you cancelled your rotation, that would be it - no one would ever hear a peep about it.
 
nlax30 said:
How does that work? Didn't you need to apply for a rotation at the away program?
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I think I was unclear. If you, nlax, wanted to do an away rotation at my med school...you sent in an application to our registrar's office saying what rotation you wanted. You didn't send anything to the individual department/residency program, and the residency programs had no role in the process.
 
southernIM said:
I think I was unclear. If you, nlax, wanted to do an away rotation at my med school...you sent in an application to our registrar's office saying what rotation you wanted. You didn't send anything to the individual department/residency program, and the residency programs had no role in the process.
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Ah, gotcha. Makes sense. From my experience at aways this was all handled by the GME office, and usually the same office staff that handled application/interview stuff so they'd know who canceled on them.
 
GuyWhoDoesStuff said:
I think getting an LOR from an away rotation should be one of your goals, yes. I'm honestly not sure if certain "caliber" programs would be more or less likely to get you the kind of recognition by important faculty you'd want/need for a strong LOR, though.
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The major goal of an away rotation is to audition for a potential match there. An LOR is a very secondary goal. You don't need a LOR if everyone knows you and wants you to come there. So that's really why folks do these away/audition rotations. You are solid at 3 away rotations, you probably get 3 interviews. You just get a LOR from an away rotation, you probably don't add incrementally to what your application would look like if all your LORs came from your home school. Keep your eye on the prize; The real prize is an interview leading to a high match, not a nice letter which really keeps you at ground zero when you have to interview elsewhere. You should be doing away rotations with the goal to lock in an interview with folks who think you come off well in person. Nobody puts great stock in an LOR from an away rotation where they away rotation itself didn't want you.
 
Law2Doc said:
The major goal of an away rotation is to audition for a potential match there. An LOR is a very secondary goal. You don't need a LOR if everyone knows you and wants you to come there. So that's really why folks do these away/audition rotations. You are solid at 3 away rotations, you probably get 3 interviews. You just get a LOR from an away rotation, you probably don't add incrementally to what your application would look like if all your LORs came from your home school. Keep your eye on the prize; The real prize is an interview leading to a high match, not a nice letter which really keeps you at ground zero when you have to interview elsewhere. You should be doing away rotations with the goal to lock in an interview with folks who think you come off well in person. Nobody puts great stock in an LOR from an away rotation where they away rotation itself didn't want you.
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That's sort of field dependent. Neurosurgery and especially Emergency Medicine are two fields where you absolutely need strong letters from your aways. It's probably true for most fields though.
 
drizzt3117 said:
That's sort of field dependent. Neurosurgery and especially Emergency Medicine are two fields where you absolutely need strong letters from your aways. It's probably true for most fields though.
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While it's nice to get them, it's IMHO secondary to nailing the "audition". They call these away rotations "audition rotations" for a reason. People can come away from these with a much easier shot at matching. While you need strong LORs, they can come from multiple other sources and still be effective. But a good away can put you on the short list for THAT program, and I think for many that ends up being more useful.
 
I cancelled an away at a program and that was one of the few programs that didn't offer me an interview. I think most of the time you can forget about that hospital and move on.
 
Law2Doc said:
While it's nice to get them, it's IMHO secondary to nailing the "audition". They call these away rotations "audition rotations" for a reason. People can come away from these with a much easier shot at matching. While you need strong LORs, they can come from multiple other sources and still be effective. But a good away can put you on the short list for THAT program, and I think for many that ends up being more useful.
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emergency medicine's letter of recommendation form is a standard form (at least most programs use it) and according to the PD here, they will read no other letter of recommendation other than that standard form. It is filled out following a one-month audition rotation and specifically compares your performance to all other medical students that rotated at that program. It tends to be filled out by PDs. Therefore most people do a home rotation, 2 aways, and their only supplemental letters would be from research mentors or for leadership. This is my understanding of how things work for that specialty. Rads requires letters from multiple fields (most programs say no more than 1 (or 2) letters can be from a radiologist) which make getting letters from aways not very useful. Therefore, for rads, it's more about getting the interview at the programs at which you rotate.
 
I doubt they will do anything vindictive like call other programs, but you can kiss your chances goodbye at that program. You are basically screwing them out of a chance to evaluate a possible candidate on a month long rotation. If you are backing out because you now have the chance to rotate at your dream program that's one thing, but if it is about some small difference in perceived prestige or something, I would think hard about keeping your commitment.
 
vicinihil said:
I'm just wondering what the effect turning down an away rotation after accepting them would have on your application?

eg: I told school x that I was going to take the away rotation but now received a better offer from school y and wish to go to School y instead.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Assuming you let them know early enough in advance (1-2 monts out), I have a hard time seeing any effect. I'm a little surprised at the replies you've gotten here.

I've asked this same question to our program director as well as a group of others at a conference with a med student residency forum, and they all agreed that no one would even remember you or hold it against you come time to apply....IF you let them know early enough in advance so they can fill it with someone else. Granted I'm applying to a moderatively competitive field, so it may be different in very competitive and smaller fields.

Bottom line...I thinks its a silly reason to not go to your dream location. And by doing so, you may be opening up a spot for someone else to rotate at their dream location.

Go where YOU want to go. Just my two cents. Good luck!
 
I agree that he should go where you wants but just with the possibility of maybe burning bridges with the original site.

IMHO ~1 month is not a lot of notice to give a program. Usually that's the minimum they need to get everything set up.

Just think about how far in advance you scheduled your aways.
 
nlax30 said:
I agree that he should go where you wants but just with the possibility of maybe burning bridges with the original site.

IMHO ~1 month is not a lot of notice to give a program. Usually that's the minimum they need to get everything set up.

Just think about how far in advance you scheduled your aways.
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Yeah, I agree. 1 month out they probably aren't going to get anyone else for the spot. So yes, you will be screwing them. I'm sure many places won't care, but some will. That said, if you have a chance at a dream program, go for it. It might not hurt you at the original place, but there is a strong chance it will. If this is for IM or something, I'm sure no one cares. If it's something competitive they rely heavily on these rotations for recruiting.
 
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