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Turning down DO to reapply MD

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jeep1010

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Hi,

I just wanted to clarify something about the application process. I am applying to only DO schools right now (I am a dead set DO candidate - 3.6/3.5 with 503 and 501 MCAT), however, I am taking the MCAT again next April/May after doing one year masters at Columbia. My concern was that if I apply to all these DO schools now and I want to re-apply MD if I get a good MCAT score 513+, along with other DO schools (ones that I have already applied to) how would I go about doing that? In my next cycle, I plan to apply to some safety DO schools as well.

I imagine I will be rejected to some DO schools and I could just use those as re-apps?
 

efle

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You'd simply turn down your DO offer(s) and apply through AMCAS the second time. If DO works like MD does, the fact that your turned down a DO admittance will be visible to all DO schools whether you applied to them originally or not, which is a big mark against you. MD schools however would not know about the outcomes of your DO cycle.

Do you have a good reason to expect a 10-12 point jump in MCAT score? Did you study for the first two scores?
 
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I'm No Superman

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So what you are asking is if you get accepted at a DO school, then through a great change in study habits/mindset manage to score 10 points higher on your third MCAT and rock your master's program, should you waste another year applying and will it affect your chances of getting into a DO school next year? If that is the question then the answer is 100% yes it will to any schools that have accepted you/have applied to. But if the main goal is medicine and in your eyes the degree is the same, why wait another year?

Edit: @efle I thought that only ones that you have applied to could see this? I could be wrong though.
 
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jeep1010

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I did study, however, both times my verbal was the low point. I am taking an intensive CARS course and my Masters program is geared towards biochemistry classes and research interests. I want DO to be a safety, and I completely understand that especially with 3 MCAT scores that there is absolutely no guarantee in an MD acceptance, especially being ORM from CA. What would you recommend? Do you think I should take another year off (after my masters year) and just apply DO and MD next cycle?

Thanks
 
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efle

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So what you are asking is if you get accepted at a DO school, then through a great change in study habits/mindset manage to score 10 points higher on your third MCAT and rock your master's program, should you waste another year applying and will it affect your chances of getting into a DO school next year? If that is the question then the answer is 100% yes it will to any schools that have accepted you/have applied to. But if the main goal is medicine and in your eyes the degree is the same, why wait another year?

Edit: @efle I thought that only ones that you have applied to could see this? I could be wrong though.
My understanding is that any MD school you apply to in a repeat cycle can look you up and see that you held an MD acceptance in the prior cycle. @Goro will likely know details on how it works with DO.

I did study, however, both times my verbal was the low point. I am taking an intensive CARS course and my Masters program is geared towards biochemistry classes and research interests. I want DO to be a safety, and I completely understand that especially with 3 MCAT scores that there is absolutely no guarantee in an MD acceptance, especially being ORM from CA. What would you recommend? Do you think I should take another year off (after my masters year) and just apply DO and MD next cycle?

Thanks
What was the subsection score breakdown on each? Are the GPAs you listed above calculated with grade replacement or grade averaging (or same either way)?
 

OrdinaryDO

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That's a big risk, especially when hoping for a 10 point jump..why not just take the DO acceptance of you have it?
 
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Ismet

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I want DO to be a safety, and I completely understand that especially with 3 MCAT scores that there is absolutely no guarantee in an MD acceptance, especially being ORM from CA.

Then you should have waited to just apply once to MD and DO. Like efle said, I don't know the details of the DO application process and if schools can only see that you applied/were accepted if you had already applied to them, but for MD schools, getting an MD acceptance and then declining it and applying again is a huge red flag. I can only imagine it's the same for DO schools.

Think about your response to the inevitable interview question if you happen to get an interview at a DO school the second time around. How would you honestly explain to a DO school why you reapplied?
 
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LoveBeingHuman:)

If I were you I would drop out of the current cycle. Life is full of regrets as it is, and a physician's life especially so (regarding the things they gave up). At the very least don't let your degree be one of them. Some DO's can get over having a DO and move forward, and others cannot (and live life in bitterness). If you're willing to spend extra time and money to throw away an acceptance for an MD school, and stall your progress towards an already length process of being a physician, then you're probably in the latter category.
 
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MareNostrummm

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You took the MCAT twice already and you're still expecting to jump 10 points? Isn't the odds of improving on the MCAT something around ~30% according to AAMC statistics? Unless you scored 121/122 in Verbal both times you aren't pulling that off. Raising your verbal 4-5 points is doable (125-127 range) if you have a low baseline since you just need to develop a good strategy, but hitting the 128+ is exponentially harder the way the curve is set up.

Honestly you should just take the DO at this point..
 
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OrdinaryDO

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If I were you I would drop out of the current cycle. Life is full of regrets as it is, and a physician's life especially so (regarding the things they gave up). At the very least don't let your degree be one of them. Some DO's can get over having a DO and move forward, and others cannot (and live life in bitterness). If you're willing to spend extra time and money to throw away an acceptance for an MD school, and stall your progress towards an already length process of being a physician, then you're probably in the latter category.
You speak of a DO degree as if it were still in the 1800s and people thought the degree was quackery. No one is bitter over a DO degree, except those who do not understand that DOs and MDs share the same curriculum plus some, and the residencies are merging thus taking away any inferiority between the two. Once you begin practicing no one cares where you went to school.
 
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deleted407021

You speak of a DO degree as if it were still in the 1800s and people thought the degree was quackery. No one is bitter over a DO degree, except those who do not understand that DOs and MDs share the same curriculum plus some, and the residencies are merging thus taking away any inferiority between the two. Once you begin practicing no one cares where you went to school.
+1

An asinine comment and part of the problem.
 
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LoveBeingHuman:)

You speak of a DO degree as if it were still in the 1800s and people thought the degree was quackery. No one is bitter over a DO degree, except those who do not understand that DOs and MDs share the same curriculum plus some, and the residencies are merging thus taking away any inferiority between the two. Once you begin practicing no one cares where you went to school.

So DO discrimination (and/or any condescension of the sort) does not exist at all ANYWHERE in the medical community?

I'd also like to add that these aren't my personal feelings or attitude, but what I felt like some people perceived
 
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Goro

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Just take the year off and strengthen your app for an MD school. I'd rather your seat go to someone who wants to be a doctor now.

My adcom is allergic to people who engage in magic thinking anyway.

The MD and DO schools don't talk to each other, but DO schools might have secondary prompts on if you've been accepted anywhere else.




Hi,

I just wanted to clarify something about the application process. I am applying to only DO schools right now (I am a dead set DO candidate - 3.6/3.5 with 503 and 501 MCAT), however, I am taking the MCAT again next April/May after doing one year masters at Columbia. My concern was that if I apply to all these DO schools now and I want to re-apply MD if I get a good MCAT score 513+, along with other DO schools (ones that I have already applied to) how would I go about doing that? In my next cycle, I plan to apply to some safety DO schools as well.

I imagine I will be rejected to some DO schools and I could just use those as re-apps?
 
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Lawpy

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    Hi,

    I just wanted to clarify something about the application process. I am applying to only DO schools right now (I am a dead set DO candidate - 3.6/3.5 with 503 and 501 MCAT), however, I am taking the MCAT again next April/May after doing one year masters at Columbia. My concern was that if I apply to all these DO schools now and I want to re-apply MD if I get a good MCAT score 513+, along with other DO schools (ones that I have already applied to) how would I go about doing that? In my next cycle, I plan to apply to some safety DO schools as well.

    I imagine I will be rejected to some DO schools and I could just use those as re-apps?

    Wait you went from a 503 to a 501 in the MCAT? And you expect that your prep will help you score a 513+ on the third attempt?

    The practical option is to forget about MD altogether and just apply broadly to DO. Getting into any medical school should be a priority for you, not deciding on MD vs DO.
     
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    Lawpy

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    If I were you I would drop out of the current cycle. Life is full of regrets as it is, and a physician's life especially so (regarding the things they gave up). At the very least don't let your degree be one of them. Some DO's can get over having a DO and move forward, and others cannot (and live life in bitterness). If you're willing to spend extra time and money to throw away an acceptance for an MD school, and stall your progress towards an already length process of being a physician, then you're probably in the latter category.
    So DO discrimination (and/or any condescension of the sort) does not exist at all ANYWHERE in the medical community?

    I'd also like to add that these aren't my personal feelings or attitude, but what I felt like some people perceived

    Alright stop trying to provoke an MD vs DO war. It is frankly unnecessary. OP isn't in a position to decide which route to pursue given his average GPA and 2x subpar MCAT scores. If he wants to pursue medicine, DO is the most practical route.

    As @Goro likes to say, beggars can't be choosy.
     
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    candbgirl

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    Why are you even applying this cycle? Your plan is so convoluted why bother. Especially since you're in school and would have to take time for interviews etc.. Just study for your 12 point jump and apply MD next cycle .


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    deleted731525

    I get OP. He wants to try to get into a DO school now, just in case his MCAT doesnt go as planned. But he doesnt want to close the d00r 0n MD if it does go as planned. I think it is possible to turn down a DO acceptance and still get into a DO school the next cycle, people on this forum have done it. As for how much it will hurt you, it probably depends on the individual school.
     
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    letsgoblues

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    @Goro @Lawper Do you guys think OP even has a shot at DO schools with a 503 and THEN a 501? Or do DO schools take the highest one? I hope OP has some strong EC because DO schools are not that easy to get into anymore, I believe.
     
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    heybubbaa

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    There was someone in my SMP that did exactly what you are thinking about doing (was accepted at a DO school, turned it down to do an SMP and try again for MD). I think if he had to do it all over again, he would have probably just went to the DO school. Message me and I can give you more details.
     
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    AnatomyGrey12

    From what I've seen, depends a lot on the school in question. There are some where a 3.6 / 26-27 remains very competitive

    As much as some people on here want to deny it at some of the newer and "low tier" schools someone with a 3.2/500 is still fairly competitive. A 3.6/27 is competitive basically everywhere except maybe the MCAT ****** like CCOM, AZCOM and coastal Touros.
     
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    Goro

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    Not at my school, but I'm sure somewhere.


    @Goro @Lawper Do you guys think OP even has a shot at DO schools with a 503 and THEN a 501? Or do DO schools take the highest one? I hope OP has some strong EC because DO schools are not that easy to get into anymore, I believe.
     
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    Mansamusa

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    You are a dead set DO candidate who would throw DO schools to the side if you had the chance at MD? That's not dead set; it is opportunistic. Nothing wrong with that, but you need to more realistic in what your opportunities are

    I would just apply DO and save the money by not doing the Columbia program. Getting a 503 and 501 is going to hurt you if you apply MD no matter what your next score is. Good luck!
     
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    jeep1010

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    @Goro you would say I have no shot at your DO school at all? Do you think I have a chance at western? or coastal touros? I am a California resident (ORM)
     
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    jeep1010

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    I am submitting my DO app late next week, is that late in the cycle?
     

    jeep1010

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    I really appreciate everyones response, I did not mean to sound assuming or arrogant.
     

    Goro

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    Little chance at my school; we average scores and the knowledge decay on the second MCAT is not good. You might be OK for Western, less sanguine about Touro-CA. Apply broadly, especially targeting the newest schools. I can't recommend LUCOM.


    @Goro you would say I have no shot at your DO school at all? Do you think I have a chance at western? or coastal touros?
     

    starspells

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    Why would you apply DO now if you know that you would not attend? What is the point of that? You don't need a masters, your GPAs are not the problem. If you are aiming for MD schools you will need to significantly improve your MCAT.
     
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    summergirl

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    The post above me is absolutely correct. Why on earth would you initiate an application if you know you will not attend if you are accepted? And even if you managed to get 513+ on your third MCAT, you still will be extremely borderline for MD schools, especially when are you an ORM from CA. Just go DO. You are not competitive enough for MD.
     
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    njtrimed

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    m responding to your initial question and ignoring any DO/MD arguments. Definitely do not apply to ANY medical school now. Why would you put yourself through the application process while planning to strengthen your application? It doesn't make any sense.

    First of all, you're investing a huge amount of time and money into a grad program that is pointless if you don't earn a higher GPA than you have already, which quite frankly, isn't a huge liability. A 3.5/3.6 could work for any respectable DO or MD program with a decent MCAT. And unless you're targeting mid-tier DO schools this cycle, you'll need to improve on your MCAT before applying, or a 3.8 from Columbia will look odd with a 501 MCAT retake.

    You have to look at the big picture and what schools see before they delve deeper, which is numbers (and names). If your ECs are solid and your story is interesting, you may get a DO acceptance this year. It likely won't be to a top school. Skip grad school, take the acceptance, and be happy. Otherwise, you need to rock that grad program and then also rock the MCAT, or at least score a few points higher than the 503/501. If you're focused on grad school, that means you probably have to retake the MCAT after you graduate, which also means you shouldn't apply next cycle either.

    You're kind of at a crossroads here- decide what really matters. I personally would either apply exclusively now and focus my potential re-application efforts on killing the MCAT while doing something very cool to beef up my application. Your GPA is fine, and killing it in grad school won't make a big enough difference compared to the risk you take of ending up with a sub-3.5 GPA, which is a downward trend and lethal almost anywhere. Your MCAT is the biggest problem, particularly since you took it twice in less than a year and scored lower the second time.

    And finally, I cannot overstate how unimportant the letters of your title as a physician are. I would have gladly taken either DO or MD admissions this cycle, and for me, it really came down to location. I know several people who chose DO over MD, and not because DO is more holistic, but because they preferred the location, "vibe" or mission of the school, or friends who attended the school. These days more than ever before, med school is med school- take your admission and run with it, and make the most of all your opportunities.
     
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    bon22

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    I am submitting my DO app late next week, is that late in the cycle?
    Not late at all. Still very competitive.
    PM me if you have anymore questions.
     
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    AnatomyGrey12

    A little off topic here, how on earth do some people go through the MCAT hell so many times willingly? Taking that thing just once was horrible.

    agree with bon22, you won't be late at all. I will also be open to PM if you would like to ask some more questions.
     
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    MareNostrummm

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    A little off topic here, how on earth do some people go through the MCAT hell so many times willingly? Taking that thing just once was horrible.

    agree with bon22, you won't be late at all. I will also be open to PM if you would like to ask some more questions.

    Idk... the way OP casually says "I'll just take it a 3rd time next year, go up 13 points, no big deal" makes him appear delusional. Normal people have actual priorities in life that prevent them from throwing 3-4 months to study for a test...repeatedly.
     
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    Dr Tony T. Chopper

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    As much as some people on here want to deny it at some of the newer and "low tier" schools someone with a 3.2/500 is still fairly competitive. A 3.6/27 is competitive basically everywhere except maybe the MCAT ****** like CCOM, AZCOM and coastal Touros.

    Hey hey we aren't ******!
     

    MareNostrummm

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    As much as some people on here want to deny it at some of the newer and "low tier" schools someone with a 3.2/500 is still fairly competitive. A 3.6/27 is competitive basically everywhere except maybe the MCAT ****** like CCOM, AZCOM and coastal Touros.

    Which schools would that be?
     

    bon22

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    Probably because not getting in where they want sounds even worse than studying for it yet again
    Let's just all study on the beach.
     

    Swish16

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    This is potentially catastrophic for you if you don't garner an MD acceptance if you reapply. That being said, if you're even asking this question you should go MD because you believe some doors maybe closed for you if you go DO. This is true if you do want to do ENT, Derm, or Plastics but the DO route will make you a physician obviously faster. I think many Caribbean students face this dilemma and regret not going DO.


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    LuluLovesMe

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    OP, the way I see it, you really don' t have a choice. Any logical person would take a 90% chance of a DO acceptance over a 1 year 50k+ commitment for a 5% or less chance to go to an MD school. That is what your odds are.

    If you showed more promise on the MCAT (like an ability to score 516+), I might have suggested otherwise. But right now I doubt you can break 510.
     
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    Espressso

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    Everytime I log into SDN and check the MD forum, I see this type of post.

    If money is not an issue, apply MD now and DO next cycle. But that would be an expensive two cycles if you are not successful w MD schools.
     
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    samac

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    I wouldn't recommend applying DO and then rejecting an acceptance. That puts you in a bad position for reapplying. If you get accepted just take your acceptance and move on with life.

    I accepted my DO acceptance with my 26 MCAT, when I had the option of a masters, and I don't regret my decision in the slightest.
     
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    Crayola227

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    the right med school is the one that takes you

    if you get a DO acceptance, take it and run!!

    if you want to wait a year and apply to both great, but if you are gonna go just DO this cycle, take any acceptance over none

    it's totally idiotic to apply somewhere you would not attend if it were your only acceptance

    that's how people pass up their one and only chance to be a doctor

    guess it depends on how important the career of treating the sick as a physician is to you

    this isn't rocket science
     
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    Dr. Stalker

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    OP. Apply to schools that, if accepted, you will attend. Regardless of location, cost, or degree conferred (MD or DO). If you want an MD ONLY, then only apply to MD schools.
    If you want a DO ONLY, then only apply to DO schools.
    If you're happy with either, then apply to both. Don't waste your time, money, energy, and effort with this idea of getting into a DO school and not attending etc.
     
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    Goro

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    Magic thinking.

    Idk... the way OP casually says "I'll just take it a 3rd time next year, go up 13 points, no big deal" makes him appear delusional. Normal people have actual priorities in life that prevent them from throwing 3-4 months to study for a test...repeatedly.
     
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    Avicenna

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    I think DO is much better than MD. In fact, the DO degree is one of my prerequisites for the doctor I see. People who are willing to sacrifice prestige, stronger residency chances, and the amount of studying required to do better on the MCAT are the people who are in it for the medicine; the MD's are the greedy vapid students who are doing it for prestige.

    I say go DO because MDs only care about the degree.
     

    efle

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    I think DO is much better than MD. In fact, the DO degree is one of my prerequisites for the doctor I see. People who are willing to sacrifice prestige, stronger residency chances, and the amount of studying required to do better on the MCAT are the people who are in it for the medicine; the MD's are the greedy vapid students who are doing it for prestige.

    I say go DO because MDs only care about the degree.
    I've seen some bizarre rationalizing online but this is up there. You don't want a doctor that studied a lot for the MCAT, because if they did they aren't actually interested in medicine?

    Wat
     
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    AnatomyGrey12

    I've seen some bizarre rationalizing online but this is up there. You don't want a doctor that studied a lot for the MCAT, because if they did they aren't actually interested in medicine?

    Wat

    I'm 83.7% sure he's kidding
     
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