Turning Temple down for Upenn?

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kingrabbit

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I know it is too soon to say this with 100% certainty, but I am not planning to specialize.

Apart from being in a slightly safer neighborhood and cost, what are the pros and cons of choosing upenn over temple?
 
In the most legit looking rankings I've seen, UPenn is in the 10-20 range and Temple is somewhere in the 40s. (out of 55 or so). Only one criterion to consider.
 
thebozz1975 said:
In the most legit looking rankings I've seen, UPenn is in the 10-20 range and Temple is somewhere in the 40s. (out of 55 or so). Only one criterion to consider.
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didja at least remember to shake it up before you picked them out of a hat?
 
I dont know why people claim that Temple is not a great school. Do you really not consider their clinical effectiveness?
 
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Temple is about 20K cheaper than Upenn for out of staters, thus price is not that great of a factor in the consideration.

I know Temple has a strong clinical program and Upenn places great emphasis on their facilities and Dent Sim Lab, but I have been told that due to Upenn's location in Philadelphia they also have a large patient pool and thus can provide a strong clinical experience.

I know that in either school one will be required to put in a lot of work (true of any dental school). But will I be spending more time studying in Upenn vs Temple to achieve the same result?

After graduation, from which place will I be able to come out saying "I really know how to do X procedure as I did it 50 times", or is this question moot because the schools place emphasis on aspects in their clinics?

As a caveat, I am aware that either school will provide me with a great education, and I was impressed but Temple's clinical program. In trying to decide where to go and after having done some research, I am trying to ascertain which school will make provide me the most experience, and if the Upenn diploma/connetions truly matter if I don't want to specialize.
 
When it comes to labeling a schools you have to be careful. My advice if it comes down to clinical experience look at the schools clinical requirements. For being an "academic school" I think Penn's clinical experience is pretty great (possibly due to the patient population). Below are my graduation requirements.

To keep it simple:
1 surface amalgam=3 equivalents (add 1 equivalent if resin)
2 surface amalgam=4 equivalents (add 1 equivalent if resin)
1 crown/bridge unit=20 equivalents (so a 3 unit bridge would be 60)
1 arch of Dentures=40 equivalents
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Students must complete 1575 equivalents, with the following distribution:

280 equivalents in Removable Prosthodontics:
Minimum of 120 equivalents in complete dentures (minimum baseline of 3 arches)
Minimum of 120 equivalents in removable partial dentures (minimum baseline of 3 arches)
Minimum of 40 equivalents (1 arch) of complete denture or removable partial denture

675 equivalents in Fixed Prosthodontics
Minimum of 180 equivalents in Bridges;
Minimum of 375 equivalents in Since Crowns;
Minimum of 120 in any combination of Crown & Bridge

500 equivalents in Operative Dentistry
Minimum of 250 in Amalgam
Minimum of 150 in Resin
Minimum of 100 in any combination
Remaining 120 equivalents in any combination of categories.

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You need to complete about 52 cleanings, and about 18 patients who need perio work (sc/rp)

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You need to complete a minimum of 15 canals of root canal therapy on patients and a bunch more on extracted teeth.

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The other requirements (ortho, peds, omfs, etc.) are basically "competency" based.
 
kingrabbit said:
and if the Upenn diploma/connetions truly matter if I don't want to specialize.
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Nope. Dental school is not like law school, it doesn't really matter where you graduate, it's what you do while you're in school that matters. If you want to specialize, Penn MAY put you at a slight advantage but even that is debatable.
 
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kingrabbit said:
I know it is too soon to say this with 100% certainty, but I am not planning to specialize.

Apart from being in a slightly safer neighborhood and cost, what are the pros and cons of choosing upenn over temple?
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When did you interview at UPENN and when did you hear of your acceptance?

Congrats btw!
 
I'm not sure about Temple, but you don't get to see a patient until your 3rd year at Penn. Even then, it seems like you need to fight for a chair with D4's (at least, that's what a D3 told me at my interview).

On another note, it really doesn't matter where you graduate from as long as you're personable and competent. I've been a dental assistant for a few years, and no one ever ask where my dentist graduated from. People like him because he's competent and friendly.
 
Kingrabbit,

As a Penn graduate myself, I have to say that Penn offers great clinical training that I think is second to none comparing to any other schools even though it bears the reputation of being an "academic school". BFord 23 showed you the graduate requirement from Penn, I think that is comparable to most schools in the country. Even though I been out of school for a few years now, but I think even now most of the group leaders (your main restorative clinical instructor in D3 and D4) are prosthodontists who can guide you through more complicated full mouth restorative cases if you have these kind of patients. I am not sure if you can get the same in other schools. I think Temple is a great school but I hope you don't turn Penn down because you don't think Penn can give you good clinical training. True, many of Penn graduates do specialize including myself; however, plenty of my classmates also chose to become general dentists and do just fine.

Most of the patients really don't care about which school you graduated from. But for the ones who do care, having a Penn diploma hanging on your office wall definitely is a plus. Wouldn't you say? But again, I hope you choose the school that best suits your need. Whether Temple or Penn, I think you will get great education if you are willing to work hard.
 
Bford23 and Straightwire,

Thanks for your responses (this is exactly the kind of information I was hoping to get).

Considering that the school is in the philadelphia area allowing Upenn to have a large patient pool, do you still have to fight for a chair (either as a D3 or D4)?
 
kingrabbit said:
do you still have to fight for a chair (either as a D3 or D4)?
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Well, it really depends on your "group" and how you decide to run things. Most groups are 18 students w/equal # of D3s and D4s. In my group D4s get their own chair for every session. This means that the D3's have a "wait list" they rotate on, but generally they get a chair because of cancelations or seniors not being in clinic (interviews, externships, etc.). Last year I only sent 1 patient home because I could not get a chair in the first half hour and that was because people were screening for the NERBs. So, from my standpoint, it is a little bit of a pain as a D3 but it is great when your a D4 (when it counts). I do wish we had our own chairs each year though. That would be great.
 
BFord23,

Do you know how large your patient pool is?

Any Temple students want to chime in with Temple information?
 
kingrabbit said:
Apart from being in a slightly safer neighborhood and cost, what are the pros and cons of choosing upenn over temple?
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"slightly safer neighborhood" :laugh: Temple and Upenn are both in filthy, and dilapidated areas of Philadelphia. In fact, you could walk from temple to Upenn in under an hour. So if thats one of your pros for Upenn than just scratch it. As long as you don't venture to 22nd st (off North broad st) on foot to some "in-the-cut" strip club "you've heard about", you should be ok.
 
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Black Surgeon said:
"slightly safer neighborhood" :laugh: Temple and Upenn are both in filthy, and dilapidated areas of Philadelphia. In fact, you could walk from temple to Upenn in under an hour. So if thats one of your pros for Upenn than just scratch it. As long as you don't venture to 22nd st (off North broad st) on foot to some "in-the-cut" strip club "you've heard about", you should be ok.
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I was there this weekend and drove around both areas. From speaking to the locals, police, and students, the consensus is that there is a drastic difference between the two areas. Obviously you cannot venture past certain streets in university city, but it's like comparing apples and oranges.
 
kingrabbit said:
I was there this weekend and drove around both areas. From speaking to the locals, police, and students, the consensus is that there is a drastic difference between the two areas. Obviously you cannot venture past certain streets in university city, but it's like comparing apples and oranges.
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You base your opinion on the fact that you "drove around both areas" and a few conversations 🙂. I lived on North broad street for a year.
 
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