Tuskegee is going to hell in a hand basket

[deleted1222894]

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[MixedAnimals77]

Vetprep and Zuku is my best advice and maybe try reaching out to Auburn faculty or any other faculty that you've interacted with from other schools. It sounds super dull by legit read IM books like Cote. Unfortunately you're going to have to do a ton of self leg work.

As a side note please have you and your cohort write letters to the COE on your experience. The terminal accreditation process is lengthy for a reason but it's sad students like you all are caught in the cross fire especially after all the $ you're spending to end up with a "useless" degree if you cant pass navle

 

[deleted1222894]

Vetprep and Zuku is my best advice and maybe try reaching out to Auburn faculty or any other faculty that you've interacted with from other schools. It sounds super dull by legit read IM books like Cote. Unfortunately you're going to have to do a ton of self leg work.

As a side note please have you and your cohort write letters to the COE on your experience. The terminal accreditation process is lengthy for a reason but it's sad students like you all are caught in the cross fire especially after all the $ you're spending to end up with a "useless" degree if you cant pass navle

I will start reading textbooks, though. That's a good suggestion, thank you

 

[battie]

The ICVE has a list of diseases on their website that are considered fair game. Can use those to study as well to be more targeted

 

[DVM882029]

Consider utilizing VIN as well! You get it free with being a student, so run with that as much as you can. They have case rounds, a whole student center, the forum, etc. Also, its unorthodox, but some veterinary influencers post case based questions on their social media for learning (I see it on instagram). Dr. Brooke is an ER vet in Australia, there's veteyeguy or something for optho, and I'm sure there are more. It's not ideal but a little more exposure may be helpful.

 

[mkg323]

I’m going to second VIN. For anatomy they have a 3D model program and they finally have the full horse on there, (they also have the full dog and some scans of other animals) it’s absolutely fabulous, and it’s the reason I passed anatomy my first year. They also have 2 live courses for NAVLE, 1 is on test taking skills, study habits, they do some questions and its free, the second is $75 and gives you study material and then the live sessions you do questions and can ask questions on the spot. It’s very thorough and affordable compared to vet prep and I really thought it was helpful, the questions were better than Vetprep IMO. Another resource you could check out is Vet Candy, as it’s free. They have reading pages on each topic that can come up on the NAVLE and mini quizzes for each subject per species, the questions are a bit more straightforward but are good repetition. They also have video lessons and video quizzes on YouTube. There’s also the Merk manual for additional info. Vetprep is great for review and practice, but I don’t think it’s going to fill in knowledge gaps, especially if you can’t get it till September.

 

[madrivermystic]

Vet candy covers all the topics on the ICVA list and it is free. There are practice questions and timed self assessments too and it is free.

 

[clembear]

Tuskegee c/o ‘25 here so I understand the struggle. Feel free to reach out if I can help you at alll! Vet candy, Clinical Veterinary Advisor, Vet prep power pages/zuku top 20s and VIN were all a good resources for me. Plus whatever free review sessions various companies were hosting I tried to attend. You can do this!!

 

[supershorty]

I am encouraging you, because I am a Tuskegee graduate who did pass my boards the first time in the fall and I re-took it in the spring to get a better score.

With all due respect, I am quite suspicious of your claims. This doesn't read like it's written by AI, but this line in particular is ... questionable.

 

[JaynaAli]

With all due respect, I am quite suspicious of your claims. This doesn't read like it's written by AI, but this line in particular is ... questionable.

Claiming/bringing up a GPA for a supposed residency also seems questionable. Some residencies with advanced degrees like a masters probably have a GPA for that part, but I don’t know of any residencies that are graded. My residency didn’t even have any formal courses, just boards and even those was pass fail.

If the intent was to encourage, that’s nice, but I agree…Mightycat’s reply feels questionable.

 

[SkiOtter]

With all due respect, I am quite suspicious of your claims. This doesn't read like it's written by AI, but this line in particular is ... questionable.

Right??? Who wants to take navle a second time when they already passed and a better score means absolutely NOTHING

 

[supershorty]

Right??? Who wants to take navle a second time when they already passed and a better score means absolutely NOTHING

Someone who has $700+ burning a hole in their pocket and is receiving exceptionally poor advice from people they look up to, who told them that their NAVLE score matters beyond pass/fail.

Or someone who isn't being truthful, which I think is more likely the case.

 

[pp9]

ew why would you choose to take the NAVLE twice

 

[battie]

ew why would you choose to take the NAVLE twice

This is the statement that makes it a troll account to me. No one in their right mind takes it twice. Ain't no student has the money nor the time for that.

 

[supershorty]

I guess that makes sense that no one would do so, but I took it twice to improve my score. I think I am in my right mind, because my strategy paid off for me.

There was literally 0 benefit to you doing that, if true. You threw away $700.

If true.

 

[battie]

Answers to your questions @Mightycat

Qualifications are improving with state licensing. At that time, some states had criteria for meeting their requirements for state licensing based upon scores. That criteria is no longer used. Otherwise, I would not have taken it twice.

You took the NAVLE long enough ago that you're likely to be the oldest vet here then cause I have never heard of NAVLE cut offs for state licensure. And there are several of people here who have been docs a while. I couldnt find reference to this with a quick, though shallow, search.

And that's where the confusion comes from since none of us have heard of this. Therefore, it was assumed you were lying/boasting.

The point of my message was meant to be encouraging.

And that message was missed because all of us assumed you were lying.

Did you all read any of the rest of the message?

Yes. But when I assume you are lying about taking a long and expensive test twice just to arbitrarily increase your score, I'm not going to take anything you say at face value.

If I was a bot or whatever, how would I know anything about Patterson Hall?

Because that's how LLMs work. If it's on the Internet, it's fair game to train your LLM on it.

I didn’t realize that our there would be pushback for one line of my message. Did you get anything else from the message?

See above.

🙄 It costs over $150,000 to become a veterinarian. $700 is a drop in the bucket compared to that. I know people who spend that much for a weekend of golf.

Try 200k+ depending on your IS vs OOS schools. And that $700 is a lot of money to a vet student they shouldn't spend if they don't need to. The attitude of "I have a ton of debt anyways, what's a little more?" is terrible to have when that debt has 5-9% interest. Particularly when students no longer have access to full cost of attendance for vet school at this time.

$700 is half my mortgage; or two months of my solar panel payments; or two months of groceries; or a nice vacay to the mountains. From our perspective of assuming you're lying, we're going to call it dumb to spend the money to take the test twice.

 

[battie]

I don’t know how to train an LMM

"You" as in the general you, not you as an individual. All LLMs are trained by their ownership company using anything available on the Internet. So anything about Patterson Hall at Tuskegee on the Internet is fair game to use for training LLMs. So all LLM AIs can produce info on Patterson Hall.

If you want to think that I am lying because I had good results from a university that prepared me well, I think that this is more about you and your confidence as a veterinarian rather than me.

We *all* thought you were lying because *none* of us have heard of states having NAVLE cut offs for their licensing requirements because all of the veterinarians here have graduated within the last 10 or so years.

Our assumption of you lying has zero to do with being a doctor at all. Mitigating my confidence as a doctor does nothing for your defense as the NAVLE is not a measure of how good of a doctor someone will be.

I was only sharing those things as a matter of encouragement to the student who said that she was scared and tired. I simply want to encourage her because she is feeling upset about what’s happening to Tuskegee.

And the encouragement was dismissed because someone who says they took the NAVLE twice to increase their score is suspicious with the information that we have readily available.

 

[JaynaAli]

Education was great, don’t worry…but had to take NAVLE twice to be able to be licensed? Which is it. Tuskegee may still technically be accredited, but it’s a literal coin flip odds if the current students at that accredited school will pass NAVLE or not. I know some great grads from Tuskegee and had no issues with the program until this recent trend of awful NAVLE pass rate. Now it’s an issue that must be discussed until they inevitably get moved to terminal. That is cause for concern and I understand OPs frustrations. Encouragement is good, but anyone can pretend to be something they’re not on the internet and making sure that people are getting accurate information from reliable sources is also important.

Also, disagree that “most” residencies require advanced degrees. I’ll concede that maybe this was true a long time ago but now I’d just say this is likely highly field dependent. Some or even many have them, but saying most is too much, in my opinion. In my specialty, less than half the academic residencies (and lol, yes, at AVMA recognized programs) have advanced degrees. Other fields are different but I’d say the trend is away from advanced degrees over the last five to ten years. I still maintain that it was weird to refer to a GPA for residency though (before you edited the post to remove it), even if it was for an associated masters or PhD. Those are different things. Maybe packaged together, but different.

Maybe you’re real. Maybe you even have the qualifications you say you have. There’s nothing wrong with trying to encourage, but I think your experiences and advice may be outdated. Which, as someone who entered vet school 15 years ago, I also acknowledge that I am on the verge of, if not already there, as well.

 

[pp9]

🙄 It costs over $150,000 to become a veterinarian. $700 is a drop in the bucket compared to that. I know people who spend that much for a weekend of golf.

Which is probably more beneficial to them as a person than repeating the NAVLE after you've already passed

The reason why I brought my GPA was because I took these advanced courses at a College of Veterinary Medicine that is not on terminal probation or has probation issues. In so doing, I want to encourage Tuskegee University students to have confidence in what they have been learning for the past four or more years of their lives. If I had a substandard education, I may not have been so successful. Tuskegee may be having problems right now, but that doesn’t mean that the core of what they’re learning is negligible, and I want to remind everyone that they are still fully accredited, even though they have issues.

If you want to think that I am lying because I had good results from a university that prepared me well, I think that this is more about you and your confidence as a veterinarian rather than me. I was only sharing those things as a matter of encouragement to the student who said that she was scared and tired. I simply want to encourage her because she is feeling upset about what’s happening to Tuskegee.

You also did all of this when the school was not in its current position. Something has drastically changed at Tuskegee, or they have suddenly started letting in students that have absolutely no business being in veterinary school. It could be a combo of both. It appears that it is no longer the 'same school' that you attended and are raving about.

Hello everyone ! I am happy to be a part of the SDN. I am an executive veterinarian scientist who has taught in veterinary, nursing medical, and pharmacy schools. I have also been a hospital director, associate pathologist, and associate veterinarian in addition to being a master of global business administration. I’m available to help and to learn, expand my professional circle, and contribute to helping others with thought leadership.

Putting my tinfoil hat on: I have to wonder if this person is presently connected to Tuskegee in some way. Idk. People that are as advanced in their careers as Mightycat seems to be are not going to suddenly make an account on SDN in order to stick up for a school, because vets don't randomly come to SDN. Vets who are this far out in their careers are unlikely to even know what SDN is if they weren't already users. Shoot, there's a good chunk of modern pre-vets that won't find SDN and haven't heard of it. Whoever is behind this username was likely already lurking and felt compelled to participate in this thread, as it is the first Tuskegee-specific thread that I can recall.

Not that it matters to any of us because we are free to voice our (entirely valid, in this case) concerns as we see fit, but this would not be the first time that I have suspected (or we have all but confirmed) a school has 'anonymously' lurked on SDN and utilized posts to take action on someone/something IRL. Schools absolutely know about SDN, some make their presence known, some do not.

ETA: I'll backtrack a touch and say we probably have had a small handful of vets well into their careers that have showed up randomly, some claiming they are on adcoms or associated with a school (without saying which school, which is understandable). And my guess is that SDN was somehow brought up in an admissions/faculty meeting and subsequently sparked their interest, they started lurking, and then felt compelled to join and participate. Said users usually pop up, argue about something and say SDN is completely wrong/we give terrible advice, and then disappear back into the void lol. Someone chime in if they feel differently, but those of us that have been active for quite a long time probably have a decent feel for posts/users that will strike us as odd. For the few that show up not claiming to be associated with a school, they also disappear just as fast so why they showed up in the first place is always a mystery.

Thank you for your remark about this looking like it’s written by AI

Sorry to burst your bubble, but she said it doesn't look like AI lol

 

[pp9]

I think I've seen this episode before. Are we sure this isn't someone who recently threw a remarkably similar tantrum? (I don't really think it's that person but you've gotta see the similarities)

If you can't read your original post objectively and cannot see how odd it is in this context, then idk what to tell you. If you came on here and said 'I'm a Tuskegee grad and loved it, idk what's happening and I'm worried about the school too, but please keep your head up and do your best' that's one thing. Instead you basically suggested OP dig their head in the sand and ignore the obvious problems going on at that school because you felt you had a good experience (and I'm guessing that was 15+ years ago?). Toxic positivity at best, but otherwise just a weird, very off-putting thing to say to someone who has very real concerns.

With a side of 'Oh and I took the NAVLE twice just to get a better score and did fine, so what's the problem?' when no one in the history of ever actually does that.

Also shamelessly patting myself on the back here because #calledit

I joined this group because I am an accomplished, full professor at a CVM

 

[battie]

I didn’t see a clause restricting membership relative to age, level of education, verification of whether I am *real* or not, Alma mater, or if my advice lines up with group thoughts. 🤔 Hmmm. Seems like discrimination to me.

Jayna and PP didn't write anything in regards to whether or not you should be allowed. There is no discrimination there whatsoever. I would love for you to highlight specifically where that was implied.

Our only concern is that you aren't who you say you are due to off putting statements you've made.

I wanted to encourage that student and others who may be in a similar situation. These responses to my heartfelt thoughts have discouraged me from remaining on the site, so, as you say, I will leave, because you *all* are abusive.

Point out what you view as abuse.

1) Only way for people to change is to be called out and shown how to improve.

2) There is nothing wrong with us calling your statements into question when it is extremely out of the norm.

Not for nothing, SDN has ways of verifying who is who. Over on the human med side, there are faculty members who are confirmed to be who they are. The point of that is transparency. You are by no means obligated to do so. But it is not against common courtesy to question people on the internet.

 

[supershorty]

Couple of things:

1.) I think it would be wise for all parties to either keep it related to the OP's original question. If it continues to get really off track, I may close the thread as it has derailed pretty significantly.

2.) Nothing on this thread violates the terms of service, so kindly stop reporting posts 🙂. It is not a TOS violation for suspicions to be civilly voiced when someone posts things that do not make sense or would otherwise be considered ill-advised (i.e. taking the NAVLE twice - while you may have done that however many years ago and received advice that you should do so, that is not something that would be applicable or relevant to today's veterinary students). That is neither abusive nor discriminatory. It is the nature of an open discussion forum.

 

[Kirb]

Here is an update regarding Tuskegee. It looks like they’re currently appealing the decision for them to be on terminal accreditation.

 

[pp9]

Here is an update regarding Tuskegee. It looks like they’re currently appealing the decision for them to be on terminal accreditation.

Interesting...would love to know what the basis of the appeal is

 

[RedLauren]

I am a fourth year DVM student at Tuskegee. We have a 51% NAVLE pass rate. Our clinic doesn't have air conditioning in it so we are closing at 2 every day. We aren't making any money, we're constantly hemorrhaging money actually. No one communicates with us. We are on terminal probation and we were told after the news was shared with alumni. Most of our professors graduated vet school before our parents were born and have never even taken the NAVLE and continue to teach us old and out dated medicine.

I'm at a loss. I will graduate vet school with over 30 surgeries under my belt with me as the primary surgeon, I have worked in clinics, I have performed countless COHATs, I have done medical research outside of the school. I have done everything right that I was supposed to in vet school. But I don't think I will pass my NAVLE. I'm an awful test taker and even outside of that Tuskegee hasn't prepared me for it anyways.

4 years of vet school and its all gone to **** because Tuskegee won't get their stuff together.

I'm scared and tired.

You poor thing. I’m so so sorry you’re dealing with this. I have no advice that hasn’t already been said - just sympathy. Hugs.

 

[battie]

@RedLauren rises from the deep

 

[RedLauren]

@RedLauren rises from the deep

 

[battie]

One of your classmates works with me, thinking about it!

 

[SkiOtter]

Here is an update regarding Tuskegee. It looks like they’re currently appealing the decision for them to be on terminal accreditation.

With them appealing, they can still enroll another class of students, yeah? Since they say they’re still considered fully accredited during the appeal?
(Q not just for Kirb, but for anyone on this thread)

 

[SkiOtter]

(Which to me seems like they’re appealing so that they can get ooooone last class of students enrolled vs if they were terminal now and can’t start them? Gotta get their money somehow!!!!)

 

[JaynaAli]

For those curious, the appeal guidelines are on page 60-63 of this link.

Looks like it’s essentially a 5-6 month process to appeal, about 30 days for them to file the appeal and then the hearing is within 120 days. It specifically says appeals are only on the basis of 1) the COE ruling erroneously by disregarding established criteria, 2) COE didn’t follow its procedures, or 3) that the COE did not consider all evidence. I assume #3 is the main thing they’d go after unless they can find a procedural slip up.

Unfortunately for Tuskegee, if NAVLE outcomes is their main deficiency (though I know it lists multiple), that one seems the most straightforward and less subjective than other metrics. It’s unfortunate, especially since I do feel like we need the diversity brought by an HBCU vet program. I wish they’d managed to get things turned around during the lengthy probationary period.