Tution for Canadians to attend state optometry school? + citizenship question

[Smooth Operater]

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Hello! I am planning to attend state optometry school after getting an undergraduate degree here. But I have few Q's.

What's the average tution for Canadians as international students to attend state optometry school? I need to know an estimated figure, so I can plan on working hard to save $$ 🙂 . I heard lots of optometry students take out loan, but how long does it usually take for a "hard working" optometry grad to pay the debt back?

Do most Canadian optometry graduates practice in States for awhile and then come back to practice in Canada?

Can Canadian without US citizenship start up their own private practices in US?

Hope you guys can help me out! Thanks 😀

 

[Potato!]

Hi Smooth Operator, I believe I can answer most your questions:

1) Average tuition for Canadians at American schools is the same tuition that out of state Americans pay. I'm going to estimate that the average tuition is about 25K USD per year.
Check out this website for a breakdown of the tuition for each school: http://www.opted.org/info_profile2.cfm
1.5) Yes, almost every optometry student takes out a loan. Your education will probably cost you about 150K over the 4 years. So unless your folks have money that they are willing to spend, you too will probably need a loan. (If I tried to save up 150K at my piddly 13$ an hour job, well sir, that would take a darn long time! 🙂
1.7) As per how long it takes to repay a large loan like this, it varies. One thing you've got to bare in mind is that a student loan has one of the lowest interest rates out there. So, when you start taking out other loans, mortgage, small business loan (to open up your own practise), you probably won't want to pay your student debt off until your other debt is paid off. This being said, it seems like a lot of people are on a 20 year repayment plan. Some people choose 10 years. When I was out at ICO last October to interview, I was talking with some students who were on a 30 year repayment plan...how crazy is that. Those folks are going to be like 55 years old and still have a student debt.

2) Most Canadian optometry graduates in the states WANT to practise in the states for a couple of years so that they can earn American dollars to pay back their American dollar loans. You do have to get a visa and someone who will sponsor you. Somehow, I think you're allowed to practise one year after you graduate without a visa, and then you have to either go back to Canada, or find a sponsor. From what I've heard, it is some times difficult to find a sponsor. I don't know as much about this area though...

3) A Canadian starting up their own practice in the states.....again, I don't know too much about this one. But I will say that you obviously have to be legally allowed to work in the states which would require a a visa, or green card or citizenship. I have no idea how hard it is to become a U.S. citizen. Marry an American and your set.

That's what I know. Write back if you have any more queries 🙂

 

[acurael]

just wanted to add that the 4 years in the US costs more like 165-175k

 

[Smooth Operater]

Hey guys! thanx for the input!

I am wondering if commericial practices like WalMart, and Lenscrafters sponser Canadians with Visa?

hey AcuraEL, does the 165-175k figure including living expense too? or just solely tution?

 

[acurael]

yes 165-175 includes everything..living costs, etc
these are from the budget sheets that ICO, SCCO, and Pacific gave me
but its only an estimate....probably a bit on the low side for living expensives
factor in the exchange rate and you're looking at at least 225k, and then add interest and man lets just say you're at 250-280k CDN (even higher depending on how many years u take to pay it off).... 😱
well thats my estimate anyways

 

[jd4me]

Alternatively you could pray that you get into Waterloo!

 

[chair]

Q1: Does Waterloo actually accept non-Canadian students?

Q2: Are there Canadian students who actually chose to NOT attend Waterloo after being accepted because they feel that US schools will give them better education?

Q3: I noticed that many US schools require MICB lab, must one complete that lab BEFORE applying? Will they not even consider you until after you've completed all their pre-reqs? What I'm getting at is: say if I apply and get into a US school that requires Micb lab, would I be allowed to complete it in the summer before I enter that school? Haha I guess I just want to harshly delay that lab as long as possible since I dont want to take summer school next year.

Q4: Can Canadien Waterloo grads work in States?


Thanks!!! 😍

 

[acurael]

i am praying that i get into waterloo

i can answer ur questions chair....i think there are ppl that might choose US schools over waterloo...but those ppl probably want to live in the states
i dont see anyone else who would choose an american school over waterloo if they're coming back to canada, just because they MIGHT get a better education......u still can be a bad optometrist if you go to a good school

you can take micb lab in the summer before going to opt school (and get conditional acceptance)....not sure if it makes it harder to get accepted
thats what im doing right now...taking micb lab, and an english that i need
just get it over with though...trust me....sucks...instead of enjoying my summer before i move away...im doing all these assignments...arggghhhh need a break before the 4 years start 👎

 

[Smooth Operater]

i am praying that i get into waterloo

i can answer ur questions chair....i think there are ppl that might choose US schools over waterloo...but those ppl probably want to live in the states
i dont see anyone else who would choose an american school over waterloo if they're coming back to canada, just because they MIGHT get a better education......u still can be a bad optometrist if you go to a good school

you can take micb lab in the summer before going to opt school (and get conditional acceptance)....not sure if it makes it harder to get accepted
thats what im doing right now...taking micb lab, and an english that i need
just get it over with though...trust me....sucks...instead of enjoying my summer before i move away...im doing all these assignments...arggghhhh need a break before the 4 years start 👎

Hey AcuraEL, I havn't taken micb lab yet. Can I just take any micb lab, or is there's a specific one I have to take?

Does it count if I take a microbio course that has a lab component with it?

 

[xmattODx]

I think this thread is very important. It should be a great warning to Canadian students. Do not come into the US to study unless you plan on staying here. Optometry is a different profession here with more opportunity. In Canada (despite the snobishness of Waterloo Grads.) it is basically a refractive profession, that is, you just figure out glasses prescriptions. Here in the US you work in a more 'medical' fashion. By that I mean you spend more time assesing the health of the patient's eyes than they do in Canada. HOWEVER, the education you recieve in Canada is good for what they do there and the education you get in the US is TOO expensive for what it gets you in the end. Canadian and US students from US schools are too far in debt and what the pay on the other end of four years of optometry education is not worth what you put in (especially if you end up earning Canadian dollars).

That said, Canadian students get a five year student Visa basically. You can spend your fifth year doing "optional practical training" that is a residency, or working for real US money. During that fifth year here you should be working on getting sponsored by your boss - meaning they will provide you with employment. You will not be able to open your own private practice until you get a green card as, I believe, you need a sponsor and steady income. Once you get permanent residency you're golden. You can do whatever you want, but the gov't can choose not to renew your residency if they so desire. I can't see a commercial practice sponsoring a Canadian. There are far too many ODs available that they don't need that headache. You can get sponsored by another OD who leases a commercial practice, however.

Consult your school's international student department for more information.

Note: optometry is a great profession tuition is just too high.

 

[acurael]

smooth operator....yah it can be a course with a micb lab (thats what they state as the prerequisite anyways) ive taken micb courses, and now im takin a micb lab only (thats the way it works at my univ)

mattOD.....my plan was to come back to Canada after finishing school in the US (if not accepted at waterloo), but now you have me thinking......you're right it is a huge amount of money, and definitely hard to pay back.

Some provinces allow an optometrist to prescripe some TPA's so its not "all refractions" i guess.

 

[chair]

My optometrist (waterloo grad) told me that Waterloo has changed (or is changing) their curriculum so that their grads will be better prepared to do more in Optometry (as in writing prescriptions) since more provinces (like BC) will let optometrists write prescriptions.

So if I understood her correctly, then it shouldn't be too much of an "educational/career pitfall" to attend Waterloo. (Oh, also granted that she told me correct info.)

But anyhow, I know that what she did was go to Waterloo but recently went to a US Opt school for a year to update her degree so that she will be prepared to write prescriptions. (I think she graduated many years ago from Waterloo)

So even with a professional degree, it's difficult for Canadians to get a green card? Also, with this "sponsor" thing that people have been mentioning, who does this sponsor have to be? An American? Canadian?

Sorry if my questions seem amateur 🙂

OH, another question-- I think I read awhile back in a thread that some US schools will let the International students start paying in-state tuition after a year? Is that true for most or all or few of the US schools?


Hey Matt- so you're studying the States right now eh? I hope this question doesn't come off rude, but how are you dealing with the financial aspects of being an international student? Are your parents helping you out or are you racking up major loans or are you Paris Hilton's cousin (heh, )?

Oh, any Canadian studying in US can answer me this: with the loans, it is difficult to get enough to survive in the US? Anyone with any wise words coming from experience about this?


Thanks 😍

 

[Smooth Operater]

Hey Matt! My ultimate plan is to practice down in States if possible, that's one of reasons that I choose state optometry school. I am just not sure how hard it is to find a working visa sponser. Money shouldn't be a too big issue for me, as long I don't have spend over 300,000 CDN in the 4 yrs. Thanks for the tip! I will ask the international department of the school i am interested in!

Hey, Acura, which Univeristy are you attending ?

 

[xmattODx]

My optometrist (waterloo grad) told me that Waterloo has changed (or is changing) their curriculum so that their grads will be better prepared to do more in Optometry (as in writing prescriptions) since more provinces (like BC) will let optometrists write prescriptions.

So even with a professional degree, it's difficult for Canadians to get a green card? Also, with this "sponsor" thing that people have been mentioning, who does this sponsor have to be? An American? Canadian?

OH, another question-- I think I read awhile back in a thread that some US schools will let the International students start paying in-state tuition after a year? Is that true for most or all or few of the US schools?


Hey Matt- so you're studying the States right now eh? I hope this question doesn't come off rude, but how are you dealing with the financial aspects of being an international student? Are your parents helping you out or are you racking up major loans or are you Paris Hilton's cousin (heh, )?

Oh, any Canadian studying in US can answer me this: with the loans, it is difficult to get enough to survive in the US? Anyone with any wise words coming from experience about this?


Thanks 😍

1) My concern with practicing in Canada is not with the training recieved but rather with the ability to treat and see more interesting cases including low vision and vision therapy. Who is going to pay an OD to treat their red eye when they can see an OMD, PCP for free? People in Canada are not used to paying for health care and, therefore, it is more difficult to get low vision/VT patients to pony up the cash.

2) Your sponor must be an employer is my understanding. I did not go this route. You must ask your employer to sponsor you (basically ensure you have money to survive on and you won't need government assistance.) While you are working under this type of work visa you will be applying for permanent residency at which point you no longer need an employer sponser.

3) I went to a private school I don't know about in-state tuition. I doubt that you can get it though as an international student (unless you become a permanent resident). I MAY be wrong on all of this though.

4) I come from a very supportive blue-collar family. My parents helped a little but not a lot. I borrowed every dime of tuition exept for $40.000ish (cdn) which I received from an insurance settlement. (Look both ways before crossing the street even in a cross walk!!) It has been my biggest regret borrowing so much money. It keeps me up at night. I have money from four lenders. I am about $100.000 in debt. I spent very little while in school but tuition was about $20,000 a year plus books, room/board, and equipment. It is not difficult to get loans. Canadian gov't loans, bank line of credit (see the CIBC about their professional student line of credit) and CanHELP all hand out money like nobody's business but you have to pay it all back eventually. You will need multiple lenders.

By the way I am not studying in the US. I am practicing in the US. I will be studying in the US again in September, however, but I am an OD.

(Easiest way to stay in the US. Marry a cute American like I did.)

 

[acurael]

smooth operator - im going to attend Pacific, although i am still waiting for waterloo's decision...then i will decide for sure

and i dont think you can get instate tuition if you're an international student......i asked this question on this board before and told its not possible

MattOD- how much did you get a year from the CanadaGovt loans? And how much does CIBC give approx.? (if you dont mind me asking)
Ive applied to CanHelp so far (with cosigner for full amt)...waiting to hear back from them...but im thinking of applying through other lenders if their interest rate is lower
Im going to have to take out full loans 🙁

 

[xmattODx]

MattOD- how much did you get a year from the CanadaGovt loans? And how much does CIBC give approx.? (if you dont mind me asking)
Ive applied to CanHelp so far (with cosigner for full amt)...waiting to hear back from them...but im thinking of applying through other lenders if their interest rate is lower
Im going to have to take out full loans 🙁

Canadian loans max out at $50,000 (or they did a couple of years ago). What this means is that the most money you will ever get including undergrad is $50,000 total. So basically 50,000 minus undergrad loans and divide that by 4 and you get your total amount of federal and provincial loan money each year. (Give or take)

CIBC has a professional students line of credit. If I remember correctly it is $15,000 a year with a one time disbursment of another $15,000 so you can get up to 65,000 BUT it is a line of credit so you must pay your interest payments while in school.

CanHELP works more like an American student loan in that they send the money to the school and then you get whatever is left over after tuition is paid for but if you read the fine print of the loan you end up paying back more than you borrow (aside from interest they add on stuff all over the place.)

Optometry is a good profession and you will get to pay back you loans but I hate being in debt!

Good luck, ask around your home city at all the banks to see if you can get better luck than I did!

xmattODx

 

[acurael]

thanks! I am definitely going to look into other lenders 👍

 

[J.opt]

When should I apply for private loans? Should I wait until I receive my acceptance?