two day surgery interview = two different suits?

[Treg]

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I have a two day interview coming up. I am wondering if it would be ok to wear the same suit twice (different top) or if I really need to bring two. I have heard different opinions for men vs women.

I am trying to live out of my little carry on, so bringing a whole different suit is a pain.

Treg

 

[bitter9881]

I have a 2 day interview this week. I am planning on wearing the same suit both days. different shirt and tie. I am a man. I would say if there is a "rule" or convention for this, it wouldn't be different for men and women.

 

[Arzamus]

Or you could pretend your luggage was lost and wear whatever you please on Day 1, then your suit on Day 2 after it "magically" arrives. Genius.

 

[USAFblue]

Or you could pretend your luggage was lost and wear whatever you please on Day 1, then your suit on Day 2 after it "magically" arrives. Genius.

For any kind of interview, that first impression matters the most sometimes... Two different shirts and two ties with the same suit - seems like a good idea! But on the other hand it's always better to have a spare "outfit" with you, in case some unforeseen dining disaster or another accident happened on Day😀

 

[Winged Scapula]

Or you could pretend your luggage was lost and wear whatever you please on Day 1, then your suit on Day 2 after it "magically" arrives. Genius.

Yeah, not so genius given the conventional advice never to check your interview apparel but carry it on. I'd wonder why you took the chance and checked your interview wear.

 

[JackADeli]

Or you could pretend your luggage was lost and wear whatever you please on Day 1, then your suit on Day 2 after it "magically" arrives. Genius.

... first impression matters the most sometimes... Two different shirts and two ties with the same suit - seems like a good idea! But on the other hand it's always better to have a spare "outfit" with you, in case some unforeseen dining disaster or another accident happened on Day😀

I appreciate the tongue and cheek. All kidding aside, these are my thoughts/impressions:

1. yes a good suit is expensive and the interview trail is bankrupting...
2. but, this is your career and you need to not skimp at the tail end...
3. so, you really should have at least one back-up plan (i.e. spare apparel).
4. a residency candidate that lacks the forthought and planning to get out of a warddrobe malfunction... makes a massively poor first impression, IMHO/IMPO.

I suggest you have spares of clothing. This does not mean an entire trunk of suits.... but consider how important this is to you and then invest accordingly. This extends beyond this point....

I am always surprised at the med-students short on chang at the end. So, for MS1s, I recommend the following.... skip one of the beers at each of your social outings and save that cash (mattress, piggy bank, etc...). Ask family and friends during hollidays to NOT splurge on the trivial but get you some cash to piggy bank or some clothing store gift certificates.

Put a little bit of cash away as often as you can with the intent to spend it on: a) USMLE review course, b) ERAS application, c) hotels/plane rides to interviews, d) appropriate apparel in type and quantity and maintenance (i.e. dry-cleaning). I was always amazed at the impoverished students that did seem to enjoy bar nights and "class bonding" events.....

JAD

PS: This approach also extends/applies to PGY1s.... anticipating a fellowship tour.

 

[beefballs]

I usually agree with almost all of what you write,, and maybe it is me being on this side of the interview process, but 200k is not the debt load graduates were leaving with 10 years ago. (At my school it has been a 10x increase in avg debt over the past decade). With all due respect I feel like I get nickeled and dimed to death by medical school (1100 for CS a few hundred for CK a few hundred for Eras 50 bucks for NRMP and 46k in tuition, and lets be honest my school isn't incurring alot of cost related to me as far as I can see).

To the OP
That being said it is your career and suits are not a one time purchase, having 2 is prudent for a professional and some good planning is needed.

FOr the 2 day interview I did switch suits from dark grey on day one to brown on day 2, but I could not have told you if any of my classmates had and I assume the interviewers wouldn't have noticed either

 

[JackADeli]

... but 200k is not the debt load graduates were leaving with 10 years ago. (At my school it has been a 10x increase in avg debt over the past decade). With all due respect I feel like I get nickeled and dimed to death by medical school...

Oh, I agree. The costs are outrageous. But, so long as you can not fight or change those costs, it then falls to you to plan.... Rhetorically, how many $10 movies are folks going to during med-school? How often are folks eating out? How many starbuck coffees are you drinking? Do you have cable TV or DTV? What kind of cell phone and cell carrier plan do you have? The list goes on and on.... Yes, the costs you can not control may be outrageous. However, the responsibility for your side of the equation still rests with you and how much you really want a certain career. It's not fair.... but it's life. Failure to accept that reality and plan accordingly does NOT put anymore money in your pocket... and the sob story at an interview does not win a high ranking.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I appreciate the tongue and cheek. All kidding aside, these are my thoughts/impressions:

1. yes a good suit is expensive and the interview trail is bankrupting...
2. but, this is your career and you need to not skimp at the tail end...
3. so, you really should have at least one back-up plan (i.e. spare apparel).
4. a residency candidate that lacks the forthought and planning to get out of a warddrobe malfunction... makes a massively poor first impression, IMHO/IMPO.

Here is my back-up plan:

http://www.josbank.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SubCategory_11001_10050_1002505

Not quite as nice as my main interviewing suit, but it fits well and is shockingly wrinkle resistant - meaning I can get it into my carry-on without too much worrying.

Throw in the frequent/ridiculous jos banks sales, and you're set to go.

 

[beefballs]

I agree an interview is not the time to complain or skimp.

That is what SDN is for

 

[JackADeli]

Yeh, I have sat accross the table from undergrads, med-students, and even residents at Fridays, Applebees, etc... eating dinner, drinking beers and listening to them talk about how unfair the costs were and how they didn't know where the money for applications & interviews were going to come from... in the next sentence ordering another $6 import beer and expressing excitement about their upcoming snowboarding excursion and the great deal they got for a seasonal $600+ lift pass or the anticipated $700 gucci bag their folks were going to get them for the hollidays, etc....😱

 

[OFwhipple]

I half agree.

I think if you want to go to a 10 dollar movie, or spend money ( not outrageously) on going out with your class on occasion.. then you should. It makes you a human and lets you take a break and enjoy your life through this entire crazy process.

No one should be faulted for investing 10 dollars a night in order to preserve their mental health. If your favorite starbucks drink makes you just a little happier and gets you through a 12 hour night of studying, then so be it.

That being said... planning is important. We are all learning as we go here.

 

[JackADeli]

...It makes you a human and lets you take a break and enjoy your life through this entire crazy process...
That being said... planning is important. We are all learning as we go here.

I agree. I am not saying be a hermit. But, everyone really needs to step back and take an accounting and plan. There are plenty of pre-meds and med-students, and residents that are NOT independently wealthy. They aren't happy of the costs.... but plenty will plan. Folks seem more ready to put money aside for their upcoming wedding then for a successful application/interview. It is the same as those folks that cry about their financial demise from unexpected healthcare expenses after years of not purchasing insurance, rather living it up, nice cars, nice restaurants.... I am not looking to change this to a healthcare discussion. the point is.... you plan to be or are a physician. There is at least a reasonable expectation of intelligence. So, exercise some discipline and frugality. Don't be a hermit but do plan... you are not the first to face these challenges and most going before you seemed to do OK...

As for the 200K in debt... nice herring. Yes, you got debt. But that does not limit you from planning. If anything, it should encourage even more planning! Most do not even have to pay anything on said debt until after their PGY1 year. Also, back in the day, some lived in the hospital and cut attendings' lawns to make ends meet. Most residencies give a fairly reasonable income, access to some degree of retirement plan, and full healthcare. It makes you somewhat more privileged then a good number of folks in our society. So, suck it up, pass on some of your luxuries, and strategicly save to improve your career options. Your career & your investment.

 

[beefballs]

i don't like herring I prefer walleye

 

[JackADeli]

...No one should be faulted for investing 10 dollars a night in order to preserve their mental health...

I would fault you... especially if you are having trouble affording the investment into your career. $10/night comes out to >$3500 per year. That is exactly my point. Usually it averages more then $10/night. The $2-5 cafelate, the soda machine, the beers, the movies, etc... Most look at it just as one night. When in reality, it is far more then one night. Meet at your classmates house for a potluck????

Why are so many students needing $10+ per day "psychotherapy"??? It wasn't required before.... My point is, again don't be a hermit.... but do pull out a ledger sheet and become more aware of what your expenses are and how much is unnecessary/luxury. $3500/yr x3 years is a good chunk of change.

 

[Treg]

Wow, things digress quickly around here.

I have a thing for suits, so I have plenty of them. I just don't want to sacrifice precious luggage space for two suits. I think I have found a happy medium--I will take a three piece suit (jacket/pants/skirt).

Arzamus--funny man 🙂

Treg

 

[Buzz Me]

Yeh, I have sat accross the table from undergrads, med-students, and even residents at Fridays, Applebees, etc... eating dinner, drinking beers and listening to them talk about how unfair the costs were and how they didn't know where the money for applications & interviews were going to come from... in the next sentence ordering another $6 import beer and expressing excitement about their upcoming snowboarding excursion and the great deal they got for a seasonal $600+ lift pass or the anticipated $700 gucci bag their folks were going to get them for the hollidays, etc....😱

When will applicants learn that the "pre-interview dinners" are not an excuse to badmouth others, forget all manners, or get wasted and act like idiots? You're still being evaluated. 🙄

 

[blue2000]

I would say that if your suit is conservative and basic (navy, black, brown, charcoal) with few details that really distinguish it (ruffles, pleats, weird stuff on the sleeves, etc) than a woman can wear the same suit two days in a row. I would advise changing the color of your blouse underneath, or wear a button down one day and a sweater the next, just to change the look a little bit.

Really, interviews are not a fashion show. You want your clothes to disappear. No one is going to remember that you wore the same basic navy suit two days in a row. They will remember the white patent stripper shoes with the pink suit. It's been five years, I met her once, and I remember it.

 

[JackADeli]

...Really, interviews are not a fashion show...

Correct.

...They will remember the white patent stripper shoes with the pink suit. It's been five years, I met her once, and I remember it.

Correct again.... especially on those occasions when the fishnets are thrown in to boot.

 

[PointBreaker]

They will remember the white patent stripper shoes with the pink suit. It's been five years, I met her once, and I remember it.

I plan on wearing the same suit with two different shirts/ties. I would be impressed if anyone actually noticed if i were to change suits. It seems like nobody is paying attention to what I've been wearing on the interview, except maybe the other applicants haha.

 

[maxheadroom]

The same suit with a different shirt and tie is completely reasonable. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have a backup handy (I caught the sleeve of my "good suit" and tore it during residency interviews), but most of us understand that people are trying to travel light and that students don't have a lot of income to have multiple suits. Someone pointed out that Joseph A Bank has a sale every month in which you can get a couple of suits for a reasonable price -- not a bad investment to beef up your business wardrobe a bit.

And while I appreciate JAD's candor, I disagree with some of his statements about medstudents/residents and money. You need to be careful with your money, but you're sacrificing a substantial portion of your youth during training. I have no problem laying out cash for a good meal or a fun vacation. I don't have any consumer debt, but my savings are pretty minimal.

 

[JackADeli]

...And while I appreciate JAD's candor, I disagree with some of his statements about medstudents/residents and money. You need to be careful with your money, but you're sacrificing a substantial portion of your youth during training. I have no problem laying out cash for a good meal or a fun vacation. I don't have any consumer debt, but my savings are pretty minimal.

Do you disagree with my statement that pre-meds/medstudents/residents should start planning and stashing a little bit of cash for review courses, usmle, interviews, suits, etc....? These are foreseeable expenses. A little frugality will go a long way.... I never said hide in a hole.

 

[maxheadroom]

Believe me, having a reasonable budget and sticking to it is a good life-skill. I also believe that living like a hermit and never doing the things that you really enjoy is a good way to end up a chronically unhappy person.

 

[JackADeli]

...These are foreseeable expenses. A little frugality will go a long way.... I never said hide in a hole.

Believe me, having a reasonable budget and sticking to it is a good life-skill. I also believe that living like a hermit and never doing the things that you really enjoy is a good way to end up a chronically unhappy person.

Then I guess we agree.

 

[Svidrillion]

but you're sacrificing a substantial portion of your youth during training.

This is an idea that I've been pondering quite a bit lately. Sometimes I get the feeling that medicine in general and surgery in particular requires the sacrifice of life.

But then I have to ask, a sacrifice compared to whom?

Some folks in this country work unfavorable hours for much less money, and the work is less glamorous. I was at a toll booth before 5 am the other day and I thought, what a crappy job to be taking tickets and cash on a cold pre-dawn weekday morning--and she can't even tell herself that she's 'helping people.'

I've come to the conclusion (I think) that we flatter ourselves that we are 'sacrificing our precious youth' in the cause of medical training. Kids getting shot in Afghanistan that are younger than me, that's sacrificing youth. Young folks eeking out a meager existence in menial tasks in many parts of the world, that's sacrificing youth.

Forgoing cable TV and Starbucks to spend the waking hours of your twenties and early thirties in the hospital for training isn't exactly sacrificing your youth. Unless, of course, one can only avoid sacrificing one's youth by hedonistic prodigality.

Sorry for the rant. I've just been troubled by feelings that I'm wasting my youth. 😳

 

[LucidSplash]

Sacrificing and wasting are not the same. I don't think there are many here who will say they are "wasting" their youth in the pursuit of medical education and training. But there certainly are opportunity costs. Its a little bit of a straw man to compare the lives of those in medical training (and with careers in surgery or other medical specialties) with a toll booth attendant or a farmer. Typically, you need to compare us with those in fields we might otherwise pursue if not medicine - usually fields which require, at minimum, a college degree and frequently professional or graduate education. Medical training is, by and large, the longest and most expensive training with the longest period of delayed compensation when compared to similar professional-level training and careers. When people talk about "sacrificing their youth" most are referring to the lost opportunities to travel with fewer restrictions on their time, spend the majority of nights and weekends in the company of family and friends, having disposable income and the ability to save money for things like houses and other assets, etc.

Edit: I think from your recent posts that your status is out of date. Might want to consider updating it as people really do look at your training level when considering your posts.

This is an idea that I've been pondering quite a bit lately. Sometimes I get the feeling that medicine in general and surgery in particular requires the sacrifice of life.

But then I have to ask, a sacrifice compared to whom?

Some folks in this country work the hours of a surgeon for much less money, and the work is less glamorous. I was at a toll booth before 5 am the other day and I thought, what a crappy job to be taking tickets and cash on a cold pre-dawn weekday morning--and she can't even tell herself that she's 'helping people.'

I've come to the conclusion (I think) that we flatter ourselves that we are 'wasting our precious youth' in the cause of medical training. Kids getting shot in Afghanistan that are younger than me, that's wasting youth. Young folks eeking out a meager existence in menial tasks in many parts of the world, that's wasting youth.

Forgoing cable TV and Starbucks to spend the waking hours of your twenties and early thirties in the hospital for training isn't exactly wasting your youth. Unless, of course, one can only avoid sacrificing one's youth by hedonistic prodigality.

Sorry for the rant. I've just been troubled by feelings that I'm wasting my own youth. 😳

 

[buchemist]

Unemployment is at 10%, and I agree that the sacrifice we are currently making is not astronomical considering a lot of our peers in the "real world" either are having trouble getting a job, or had to get a master's just to get a job that is not a dead end, and also considering what should be our future salaries and job security. But, we'll see what ends up happening with health care reform. Whether or not things like a 20% medicare cut end up in this bill, Big Brother is coming in for a major power grab. So 20 years from now when we are supposed to be in the gratification phase of our delayed graitifcation, he may very well forget the substantial sacrifice we had to make over the long term.

As for the toll booth worker, that person is a government employee with a bunch of perks, and many many people would be happy to land such a job full time.

Sacrificing and wasting are not the same. I don't think there are many here who will say they are "wasting" their youth in the pursuit of medical education and training. But there certainly are opportunity costs. Its a little bit of a straw man to compare the lives of those in medical training (and with careers in surgery or other medical specialties) with a toll booth attendant or a farmer. Typically, you need to compare us with those in fields we might otherwise pursue if not medicine - usually fields which require, at minimum, a college degree and frequently professional or graduate education. Medical training is, by and large, the longest and most expensive training with the longest period of delayed compensation when compared to similar professional-level training and careers. When people talk about "sacrificing their youth" most are referring to the lost opportunities to travel with fewer restrictions on their time, spend the majority of nights and weekends in the company of family and friends, having disposable income and the ability to save money for things like houses and other assets, etc.

Edit: I think from your recent posts that your status is out of date. Might want to consider updating it as people really do look at your training level when considering your posts.

 

[JackADeli]

Unemployment is at 10%, and I agree that the sacrifice we are currently making is not astronomical considering a lot of our peers in the "real world"...

If you take into account those that stopped/gave-up looking for a job I believe the number is closer to 20%. Also, I know plenty of police officers and fire fighters that while still employed have been forced to take pay cuts.... Tell them you need to spend at least $10/day to keep your sanity in school.

...medicine in general and surgery in particular requires the sacrifice of life.

But then I have to ask, a sacrifice compared to whom?

Some folks in this country work the hours of a surgeon for much less money, and the work is less glamorous...

...(I think) that we flatter ourselves that we are 'sacrificing our precious youth' in the cause of medical training. Kids getting shot in Afghanistan that are younger than me, that's sacrificing youth. Young folks eeking out a meager existence in menial tasks in many parts of the world, that's sacrificing youth...

Forgoing cable TV and Starbucks to spend the waking hours of your twenties and early thirties in the hospital for training isn't exactly sacrificing your youth...

I appreciate your response and concur. Yes, "we" put a great deal on hold and delay much in exchange for our career aspirations. But, as I mentioned, and especially in todays economy, a residency JOB represents a great deal more then some have available to them.

Folks have put their nose to the grindstone in the pursuit of a medical career for years! It is nothing new. To suggest the college or medical school experience has become so haneous or dehumanizing that one must bleed $10+ per day (>$3500/yr) to keep sanity is ludicrous. A short time ago there was no starbucks. If you would have told med-students a decade ago that they would need high end cell phones, unlimited texting plans, and would have to spend $2-5 for coffee (a couple times a day) to make it through and keep their humanity.... I think you would have been the first patient they committed!

I was a medical student and GSurgery resident not too long ago... When I started med-school, we actually took in house Q2 call. Now, its these "short calls" and only once or twice a week. The medical students walk around with fancier cellphones then I have with unlimited texting. I constantly hear how they couldn't make it without their starbucks daily.... Then I recall how we just drank the coffee at the nurses station and/or had our own coffee pot to brew a cup for far less.... I didn't have full cable cause I wasn't watching much TV! I initially found it difficult to NOT buy med-students meals, etc... But, they are so flashy with all their privilege that I just can not justify spending money for a sandwhich on someone that regularly spends more at a bar then I spend when I take my wife out on occasion.

I am happy for the students. I encourage them to enjoy their lives. But, they need to take responsibility for their spending priorities.... did you save for that review course? for USMLE? for several suits and shoes? for ERAS applications? for the interview trail expenses? If you answer no but have been enjoying your life... it's all on you.

You don't have to be a hermit to show a little fiscal discipline and responsibility.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Did my dad suddenly sneak onto this forum?

 

[JackADeli]

Did my dad suddenly sneak onto this forum?

I be yo daddy!!!!

 

[dilated]

Some folks in this country work the hours of a surgeon for much less money, and the work is less glamorous. I was at a toll booth before 5 am the other day and I thought, what a crappy job to be taking tickets and cash on a cold pre-dawn weekday morning--and she can't even tell herself that she's 'helping people.'

I.. what.. huh? Do you seriously think toll booth workers work the hours of a surgeon? That lady was working an eight hour shift. That involved sitting in one place and doing a mindless task. That any high school graduate could do. The odds of her being screamed at were 0%, the odds of her working a 30 hour shift were 0%, the odds of her killing someone were 0%. And she was making substantially more than a surgery resident hourly. If anything when I drive by toll booth workers in the morning I'm jealous (not that I wouldn't get bored, but there are far worse jobs).