Two Tangentially Related Surgery Rotation Questions

[QofQuimica]

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Ok, these questions are actually totally unrelated other than that both pertain to surgery rotation, but I'd really appreciate your input on one or both as you see fit. 🙂

1) I know that medical schools can make rules limiting how many hours that med students spend in the OR, on call, etc. But, is there any *legal* limit to the number of hours med students spend on the wards? My understanding is no; we aren't responsible for patient care and we aren't employees. Technically, we could work 24-7 for the whole surgery rotation or until we dropped dead of exhaustion, whichever came first. Can anyone confirm or refute?

2) This is probably more directed to females: have any of you tried wearing support pantyhose (*not* support hose/stockings) to help reduce edema in your legs due to being on your feet all day? And if so, did it work?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Blade28]

OK you had to post a new thread and not ask me first? 🙂

(1) Med students don't follow ACGME/RRC rules, so technically they can work every day, all day (and night) long. I don't know the legal rules, but suffice to say they'll likely follow the following general guidelines:

*Go home somewhat earlier on post-call days
*Overnight calls Q3 at worst, likely Q4
*One day off per week, on average
*Weekend duties only include rounding, unless big cases are going on or that happens to be the overnight call day

(2) You'll find that a fair proportion of males (though usually residents, not med students) ALSO wear TED hose. (TED = thromboembolic disease.) These are those tight-fitting stockings that usually run up to just below or above the knee, and are damn tight when being pulled on, but really help reduce fatigue, edema, swelling and aches/pains during long periods of standing in the OR. They may also help reduce varicose veins.

 

[QofQuimica]

OK you had to post a new thread and not ask me first? 🙂

Sorry, I didn't see that you were on when I posted. 😳 Thanks for answering though. Blade in tights. Woohooooooo!

 

[Blade28]

Sorry, I didn't see that you were on when I posted. 😳 Thanks for answering though. Blade in tights. Woohooooooo!

Funny since I just bought an Under Armor pair of running tights a few days ago for my long weekend run here, when it was 18 degrees (3 degrees with wind chill), AND snowing! 🙂

 

[mfreema1]

It also depends on your school. At our school, the school applies ACGME guidelines to students as well. So it may not be a federal (?) offense to break those rules, at least we are protected from working over 80 hours/wk by the school.....unless you chose to be there more often (which I did on surgery because it was really exciting).

 

[Ashers]

It also depends on your school. At our school, the school applies ACGME guidelines to students as well. So it may not be a federal (?) offense to break those rules, at least we are protected from working over 80 hours/wk by the school.....unless you chose to be there more often (which I did on surgery because it was really exciting).

1) My school does the same (students are 80hrs/wk averaged over the 4 weeks, and no more than 30hrs at a time), but my ortho attending always reminded me that students and faculty don't have work hour restrictions. I haven't come close to the 80 averaged hours yet.

2) I just finished my CT surgery rotation, and on days that I knew I'd have lots of surgery or just long, boring cardiac cases, I wore compression stockings that go up to my knees. I hate hose.

 

[QofQuimica]

Thanks for the replies. So the general consensus seems to be that no, there isn't any federal law prohibiting the schools from working us over 80 hours. Ha, ain't that one of those situations where being able to say "toldja so" is a hollow victory. 🙄

So no one has tried wearing support pantyhose? I'm apparently allergic to the support stockings that a lot of people use, which is why I'm looking for some alternative. Though I have to agree with you, Ashers, I'm not a huge fan of panty hose either. I haven't worn any since interviewing for med school two years ago. 😛 Still, if it's a choice between fitting into my shoes the next morning versus a few weeks of wearing panty hose, it's kind of a no-brainer. Sigh....

 

[Ashers]

So no one has tried wearing support pantyhose? I'm apparently allergic to the support stockings that a lot of people use, which is why I'm looking for some alternative. Though I have to agree with you, Ashers, I'm not a huge fan of panty hose either. I haven't worn any since interviewing for med school two years ago. 😛 Still, if it's a choice between fitting into my shoes the next morning versus a few weeks of wearing panty hose, it's kind of a no-brainer. Sigh....

My support stocking socks are basically panty hose material, but just made so they're not as flimsy, and they stay up on the calf better than my other knee high socks. I also wear another pair of socks on top of them for comfort -- usually hiking or running socks with extra padding from REI. I think my mom bought the stockings for me at Nordstroms. My dad's a surgeon, and he wears some of the TED stockings. I'm just too lazy/busy to go out and look for anything else than what I have.

I haven't worn hose since probably my senior year in high school with my senior ball. I believe in knee high socks and boots with pantsuits.

 

[Hallm_7]

Med students actually do have work-hour limits that mirror the ACGME's mandated rules. The LCME added these rules a couple years ago, and med schools must follow them or face LCME sanctions (assuming they could somehow find out). Also, I believe working over 80 hours for residents is only illegal in those states (such as New York) that have legislation on the books. To my knowledge most states do not have legislation that address this. Therefore, for the majority of the residents and students in the US, enforcement is related to accreditation, not legal.

 

[Blade28]

To my knowledge most states do not have legislation that address this. Therefore, for the majority of the residents and students in the US, enforcement is related to accreditation, not legal.

Very true.