Typical MS3/MS4 timeline

[Armadillos]

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Spent the last 2 years thinking about stepI, so hadn't considered there was anything after that. So whats the typical timeline for people as far as the clinical years go?

1) When is the latest it would be reasonable to decide on what field your applying (I know technically it can go super late, but what would be considered normal?
2) When are most people taking step II? CS?
3) I know most 4th years get "vacation time" as part of their electives, is that usually used for actual vacation, or is that meant for boards/interviews

 

[Stellar Clouds]

1) When is the latest it would be reasonable to decide on what field your applying (I know technically it can go super late, but what would be considered normal?

Try to decide before you make your fourth year schedule.

2) When are most people taking step II? CS?

For CS anytime before you graduate...unless you are an IMG, you don't need it to be ranked by residency programs. I personally took it in January of my fourth year and didn't get my score back until late April.

CK depends on what specialty you are applying to and how well you did on step 1.

3) I know most 4th years get "vacation time" as part of their electives, is that usually used for actual vacation, or is that meant for boards/interviews

Depends on your school. I was able to attend all my interviews while still on rotations, so I saved all of my vacation for the end of school. Definitely ask the graduating seniors at your school to get an idea of what is feasible.

 

[kavorca]

Spent the last 2 years thinking about stepI, so hadn't considered there was anything after that. So whats the typical timeline for people as far as the clinical years go?

1) When is the latest it would be reasonable to decide on what field your applying (I know technically it can go super late, but what would be considered normal?
2) When are most people taking step II? CS?
3) I know most 4th years get "vacation time" as part of their electives, is that usually used for actual vacation, or is that meant for boards/interviews

1) ideally you would decide before March-ish during third year as you will need to start applying for fourth year away rotations around this time.

2) it depends on how high your step I is. If yo rocked step 1 a lot of people will avoid taking step 2 until after apps are submitted. Some students will want a good step 2 score to bolster an average or low step 1 and will take early (July-August) so places will see their score. CS you can take anytime, although it is ideal to take early, I suppose, just in case you fail.

3) vacation is vacation. Most schools will let you miss time during rotations for interviews. Don't waste vacation for interviews. You might need to use vacation for extra away rotations if your school doesn't let you do very many or if you want to do extra aways.

 

[mvenus929]

1. I think most people in my class had it narrowed down to at least two specialties by December of third year (which for us was almost done with the year). We're about three months into fourth year now and I think people who were previously undecided are starting to make their final decisions now. Obviously, if your school starts third year later than we do, this will leave you less time to get everything together, but it's a pretty good timeline.

2. Most people in my class took the first block of fourth year off to study for Step 2 and knocked them both out then. I got put into my AI first block, so I'm taking CK in our block 3 (Friday, actually). Because the CS testing centers are closed right now, I have to take CS in July.

There are a handful of people who are delaying Step 2 more, either because they wanted a mental break after third year or because they felt their Step 1 score was high enough that they didn't want to go down on Step 2. However, at my school, we're required to complete both by Dec 31st, so that the scores will be back for programs to rank. So that strategy only works for getting an interview, not necessarily the final rank list.

3. My school gives us about 12 weeks of vacation time, in addition to Thanksgiving and winter break (when it's hard to do clinical rotations due to short staffing anyway... some people get around this by scheduling research time and doing their research at other times when they're on other rotations). People use some of that for boards studying (2-4 weeks, usually), and some for interviews (depends on where you're interviewing and what for). But, most people seem to want to be done with fourth year by match day, so they stock-pile their vacation until the end.

 

[Armadillos]

For the specialty thing- you all seem to be deciding super early, how do you do that before getting to try out everything? I have a couple electives 3rd year, but I feel like I couldn't know for sure until I do a second elective at the beginning of 4th year?

Let me clarify that Im going to almost certainly not going to be applying for anything too competitive and have above average grades.

 

[buccsmf1]

For the specialty thing- you all seem to be deciding super early, how do you do that before getting to try out everything? I have a couple electives 3rd year, but I feel like I couldn't know for sure until I do a second elective at the beginning of 4th year?

Let me clarify that Im going to almost certainly not going to be applying for anything too competitive and have above average grades.

As others mentioned, you really do need to have figured out by feb/march of your 3rd year. Applications to aways (through vsas) start to ramp up in march, and they fill up quickly.

not knowing until forth year is WAY too late. Hell, your eras application is submitted in september. You're also going to need to get some specialty specific LORs, and most of those are obtained in 3rd year or at 4th year aways early in the year.

us-md, do, or fmg/img?

 

[Armadillos]

As others mentioned, you really do need to have figured out by feb/march of your 3rd year. Applications to aways (through vsas) start to ramp up in march, and they fill up quickly.

not knowing until forth year is WAY too late. Hell, your eras application is submitted in september. You're also going to need to get some specialty specific LORs, and most of those are obtained in 3rd year or at 4th year aways early in the year.

wtf, this can't be standard?

Statistically most people don't do away rotations, I know SDN is always giving the ENT at Harvard track advice, but I'm the type who is thinking about Neuro/Peds/IM/Psych maybe anesthesia and am perfectly happy to stay in state for residency.

 

[mimelim]

wtf, this can't be standard?

Statistically most people don't do away rotations, I know SDN is always giving the ENT at Harvard track advice, but I'm the type who is thinking about Neuro/Peds/IM/Psych maybe anesthesia and am perfectly happy to say in state for residency.

It is standard even for less competitive specialties. You have to be setting up your 4th year schedule by that point and figuring out where to get your LOR from. It is definitely true that if you aren't aiming for really competitive programs it is 'less' important, but those that figure it out earlier will have a clear advantage.

 

[buccsmf1]

wtf, this can't be standard?

Statistically most people don't do away rotations, I know SDN is always giving the ENT at Harvard track advice, but I'm the type who is thinking about Neuro/Peds/IM/Psych maybe anesthesia and am perfectly happy to stay in state for residency.

so you ask a question, basically get the same answer from everyone, then accuse everyone of being on the harvard ent track?

I volunteered the other day with about 15 fellow med students, everyone knew what they were going in to at this point (end of 3rd year)

while I cant comment on other specialties, I am applying for anesthesia, and aways are considered very important in our match. I contacted about 15-20 4th years that matched gas and EVERY SINGLE ONE did an away. the avg person did 2, some did 3-4. the people that did 1 said they wish they had done more.

I'm sure its possible to wait till 4th year, but it really isnt recommended.

 

[Armadillos]

Im not disputing the advice, just was clarifying the situation to make sure it applied to me. Ever since the crazy stuff I saw people doing on here as a pre-med (studying months for the MCAT, applying to 25 schools, volunteering 300 hours in the ER, publishing papers, etc), just was checking to be sure where you all were coming from.

Obviously I would love to know what I'm doing with my life ASAP. Luckily I have anesthesia towards the beginning of the year so if thats the thing for me I should know pretty early.

 

[mimelim]

Im not disputing the advice, just was clarifying the situation to make sure it applied to me. Ever since the crazy stuff I saw people doing on here as a pre-med (studying months for the MCAT, applying to 25 schools, volunteering 300 hours in the ER, publishing papers, etc), just was checking to be sure where you all were coming from.

Obviously I would love to know what I'm doing with my life ASAP. Luckily I have anesthesia towards the beginning of the year so if thats the thing for me I should know pretty early.

I would advise all incoming medical students to start looking informally at different specialties starting even in their MS1 year. I would also advise all students to not 'choose' a specialty until well into MS3. Early exposure has its advantages and they are not small. It certainly isn't everything and this is not a decision that should be rushed, but there is no excuse for not exploring early.

 

[Stellar Clouds]

so you ask a question, basically get the same answer from everyone, then accuse everyone of being on the harvard ent track?

I volunteered the other day with about 15 fellow med students, everyone knew what they were going in to at this point (end of 3rd year)

while I cant comment on other specialties, I am applying for anesthesia, and aways are considered very important in our match. I contacted about 15-20 4th years that matched gas and EVERY SINGLE ONE did an away. the avg person did 2, some did 3-4. the people that did 1 said they wish they had done more.

I'm sure its possible to wait till 4th year, but it really isnt recommended.

Not to derail, but you received some interesting advice. Aways are totally NOT needed in anesthesia. Out of the 28 people in my class who matched anesthesia (including me), only 3 did aways and none of them matched at a program they did an away at...not sure why you received completely different advice...

 

[Armadillos]

Not to derail, but you received some interesting advice. Aways are totally NOT needed in anesthesia. Out of the 28 people in my class who matched anesthesia (including me), only 3 did aways and none of them matched at a program they did an away at...not sure why you received completely different advice...

And now you all see exactly why I made another post asking for clarification


As to the other post, ive been exploring specialties since MS1 and to be honest they all seem awesome for different reasons, this is why I have a feeling its going to be tough to pick one

 

[buccsmf1]

Not to derail, but you received some interesting advice. Aways are totally NOT needed in anesthesia. Out of the 28 people in my class who matched anesthesia (including me), only 3 did aways and none of them matched at a program they did an away at...not sure why you received completely different advice...

weird indeed, maybe its a school by school thing, maybe its regional, who knows?

anyways, congrats on the gas match, I cant wait for interview season to ramp up!

 

[Stellar Clouds]

weird indeed, maybe its a school by school thing, maybe its regional, who knows?

anyways, congrats on the gas match, I cant wait for interview season to ramp up!

Haha who knows.

Thanks! Best of luck with interviews. Enjoy all the fantastic places that they take you out to dinner!

 

[mvenus929]

wtf, this can't be standard?

Statistically most people don't do away rotations, I know SDN is always giving the ENT at Harvard track advice, but I'm the type who is thinking about Neuro/Peds/IM/Psych maybe anesthesia and am perfectly happy to stay in state for residency.

Let's put it this way... if you are even the slightest bit interested in a surgical subspecialty, you need to have this figured out by Feb/Mar, because you will need to do an away rotation (or 2).

If you're more interested in IM/EM/Peds/FM, etc... it's not as important, because you don't need to do aways for those (though I've heard aways help with EM). The people I know who still haven't decided are those going back and forth between two specialties, usually something like Peds/OB or Medicine/Peds/Family. For these, even if you're doing rotations in different specialties, you can still get a letter from those rotations and put it towards whatever specialty you end up choosing. I'm going into Peds, and am getting two peds letters and one from psych (hopefully). I have friends that are doing AIs in both medicine and peds, and will probably get letters from both.

But, you should have definitely decided by, say, June. This gives you enough time to do at least one rotation in that specialty and get a letter in time for ERAS submission in September. You can decide later than that, but it gets more difficult the longer you wait.

 

[PTPoeny]

You don't need to have decided that early, but it makes your life easier. I was unsure what I wanted to do finishing up 3rd year (loved a rotation I was not expecting at all but also loved the rotation I was expecting to love). I set up my schedule to start with a rotation in each specialty and two aways in the more competitive specialty. I spent a lot of time talking with my advisors and this schedule kept my options open. I apply to both specialties but did not interview in both specialties as I made a decision in November. Realistically at that point I could have kept my options open until the day rank lists closed.

For some specifics: I had one LOR from each specialty from 3rd year. I got a second one from my rotations in July and August. Got a third LOR in September for one specialty and the other specialty was okay with one letter from a different specialty and I had a medicine letter from 3rd year. I had 2 personal statements and 2 different CVs prepared to hand out at interviews. I did have to use one of my vacation blocks to do the second away rotation. I originally scheduled a second vacation block in December because I was concerned that interviewing for two specialties would be a little bit too much to do during rotations. I did not get the opportunity to do any other electives and I pushed a bunch of my required fourth year courses later in the year than my friends, but I am glad I took the time to more thoroughly explore my options.