u of t students - how are you fulfilling the chem requirement?

[bananaboat]

hi there,

i'm from u of t (university of TORONTO) and my school does not offer general chemistry.

instead we offer physical chemistry 1 (with lab), and physical chemistry II (without lab).

i know some schools won't accept the physical chem II without lab. the only non-organic second year course i can take with lab is ANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY.

its basically a lab course. i'm wondering if this will fulfill the second half of the chem requirement?

i'm going to try to call the schools tomorrow. but i'll also attend the analytical chem lecture tomorrow, just in case it does satisfy the requirement.

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[mshheaddoc]

Are you supposed to take general chem at a community college or another institution? Does your institution only have upper-level classes?

U of T doesn't help much because there are a few U of T's out there.

 

[Quix]

Is it called "Inorganic Chemistry"?

 

[bananaboat]

Is it called "Inorganic Chemistry"?

Techniques in Analytical Chem

 

[mshheaddoc]

That isn't much of a chem class at all so I'm going to wager that will not be accepted. Its mostly learning analysis of chemistry, how to use statistics and that fun jazz. Not much actually chemistry learning at all. And how can they let you take this class without general chem?

There is no way I could be in my analytical chem (let alone my ochem class) without a general chem class.

 

[novawildcat]

Analytical chemistry SUCKS. i'd rather take advanced pchem or stick needles in my eyes than take another course on analytical chemistry.

 

[bananaboat]

Analytical chemistry SUCKS. i'd rather take advanced pchem or stick needles in my eyes than take another course on analytical chemistry.

trust me i don't want to take it. but its the only solution i could see....i'll call the schools tomorrow and find out if they'll accept my phyiscal chem II wihtout lab.

we actually don't have anything called GENERAL CHEMISTRY at our institution.

 

[mshheaddoc]

What is your inorganic chemistry class then? Physical chem? Where is your introduction to chemistry?

 

[ADeadLois]

hi there,

i'm from u of t and my school does not offer general chemistry.

instead we offer physical chemistry 1 (with lab), and physical chemistry II (without lab).

i know some schools won't accept the physical chem II without lab. the only non-organic second year course i can take with lab is ANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY.

its basically a lab course. i'm wondering if this will fulfill the second half of the chem requirement?

i'm going to try to call the schools tomorrow. but i'll also attend the analytical chem lecture tomorrow, just in case it does satisfy the requirement.

Analytical chemistry is a techniques course. I highly doubt it will be an acceptable substitute for gen chem.

 

[zimmie256]

Analytical chem was one of my favorite classes in college. If you end up taking it, don't assume the worst.

 

[bananaboat]

What is your inorganic chemistry class then? Physical chem? Where is your introduction to chemistry?

introdcutory courses are

CHM138 - intro organic
CHM139 - physical principles

these are basically compressed into two half credits. for example, i'm at st.george campus and my physical CHM139 is a half credit, but its an exclusion to chem's 1 and II at a different campus.

but unfortunately, the med schools will still view it as a half credit.

if life sci students decide to continue, they'll usually take chm247 (with lab --> organic II) and chm220 (physical II, but no lab).

here is the course calendar...http://www.artsandscience.utoronto.ca/ofr/calendar/crs_chm.htm

 

[mshheaddoc]

Gotcha.

If that is your case, I'm not familiar with the Canadian school systems. You might get a better answer in the Canada forum or change your title to reflect a canadian school question. Then someone who is familiar with their educational system could help you out. 😀

That looks confusing!

My guess would be that this class would be what you need for gen chem: CHM238Y1
Introduction to Inorganic Chemistry. Its a year class. The "credits" might transfer a little differently or maybe you'd need the 2nd year?

 

[zimmie256]

introdcutory courses are

CHM138 - intro organic
CHM139 - physical principles

these are basically compressed into two half credits. for example, i'm at st.george campus and my physical CHM139 is a half credit, but its an exclusion to chem's 1 and II at a different campus.

but unfortunately, the med schools will still view it as a half credit.

if life sci students decide to continue, they'll usually take chm247 (with lab --> organic II) and chm220 (physical II, but no lab).

here is the course calendar...http://www.artsandscience.utoronto.ca/ofr/calendar/crs_chm.htm

Sounds like an unusual system. Is there a premed adviser at your school who could help you figure out the best way to proceed? If there is a premed adviser, they must have dealt with this in the past.

 

[bananaboat]

if you guys are so certain it won't be accepted perhaps i wont even go to the class tomorrow (9-11 a.m.)

esp if its odds of being accepted are as good as the phys chm II without lab.

maybe instead i'll spend my time calling the schools.

anyway, the analytical course at my campus was full. so i'd have to commute (1 hour each way) to the other campus, 3 times a week. the course is 3 hours of lecture a week, and 4 hours of lab weekly. seems like way too much. not sure if its worht it, especially considering its not even gen chem!!

 

[bananaboat]

Sounds like an unusual system. Is there a premed adviser at your school who could help you figure out the best way to proceed? If there is a premed adviser, they must have dealt with this in the past.

we don't have premed advisors in canada. and the chem department is well aware of the problem... but they say its our issue to deal with it. they chemistry department is not designed to get people into medical school...its a research powerhouse, like the rest of u of t.

 

[bananaboat]

Gotcha.

If that is your case, I'm not familiar with the Canadian school systems. You might get a better answer in the Canada forum or change your title to reflect a canadian school question. Then someone who is familiar with their educational system could help you out. 😀

That looks confusing!

My guess would be that this class would be what you need for gen chem: CHM238Y1
Introduction to Inorganic Chemistry. Its a year class. The "credits" might transfer a little differently or maybe you'd need the 2nd year?

chm238 is a highly specialized course for chemistry specialists...i wouldn't be able to take it. it has enrollment controls. you are right, it is all very confusing here 🙂

 

[mshheaddoc]

geez. Why do they make it so tough for you? 🙁 Sorry. I hope you can get it straightened out.

 

[bananaboat]

geez. Why do they make it so tough for you? 🙁 Sorry. I hope you can get it straightened out.

thanks...i actually appreciate the support on these forums a lot 😳

 

[MinnyGophers]

Analytical chemistry is usually a class reserved for chemistry/biochem majors...
It's basically teaching you many different laboratory techniques that you might end up using if you do chem/biochem research....

Lab SUCKS though.

It won't replace gen chem though, but usually, gen chem is a requirement to take this class....

It is very odd that you do not have a general chemistry course at your U.... Gen chem is a requirement for ALL upper level classes, including PChem and Ochem 😕

 

[bananaboat]

Analytical chemistry is usually a class reserved for chemistry/biochem majors...
It's basically teaching you many different laboratory techniques that you might end up using if you do chem/biochem research....

Lab SUCKS though.

It won't replace gen chem though, but usually, gen chem is a requirement to take this class....

It is very odd that you do not have a general chemistry course at your U.... Gen chem is a requirement for ALL upper level classes, including PChem and Ochem 😕

i think perhaps we covered g-chem in our high school curriculum and thus our university goes straight into p-chem.

 

[MinnyGophers]

i think perhaps we covered g-chem in our high school curriculum and thus our university goes straight into p-chem.

wow you guys are pretty advanced then...

PChem is usually a junior level class...

Also in answer to another post, Inorganic chemistry is not the same thing as general chemistry. You usually take inorganic after organic, and it's an upper level class usually reserved to chemistry majors.

 

[Miss Alyssa]

i did
CHM 138H, CHM139H in first year
I'm not doing the second half of organic, but I did BCH210H (biochemistry)
I'm doing study abroad right now, and I'm taking a half course in Inorganic Chemistry with no lab. They have a lab course here that some people do with inorganic, but its part organic and part inorganic. But since I'm not taking second year organic chem, i'm not taking it.

my solution: I'm not going to apply to schools that find this unacceptable😎

MissLys

 

[coralfangs]

i took chm220 and i think i will ask to waive that labrequirement
heres my reason:
1. it was either chm220 or inorganic chem for me
2. i couldn't fit it into my 3rd and 4th yr schedule (3 hr lecture + 3 hr lab = conflict with my program requirement)
3. ive taken advanced lab courses and done an independent research project
4. Pchem is more advanced than Gchem
5. if the school were to accept me but still require that stupid Gchem, i would take it at york during the summer

and like u said, it is a compressed gChem course,
the material is spread into 2 separate half credits at York or UTSC

 

[bananaboat]

U of T doesn't help much because there are a few U of T's out there.

woops sorry. sometimes i forget that i'm on american forum...😛

university of TORONTO.

 

[bananaboat]

i took chm220 and i think i will ask to waive that labrequirement
heres my reason:
1. it was either chm220 or inorganic chem for me
2. i couldn't fit it into my 3rd and 4th yr schedule (3 hr lecture + 3 hr lab = conflict with my program requirement)
3. ive taken advanced lab courses and done an independent research project
4. Pchem is more advanced than Gchem
5. if the school were to accept me but still require that stupid Gchem, i would take it at york during the summer

and like u said, it is a compressed gChem course,
the material is spread into 2 separate half credits at York or UTSC

i've done a few research courses and an NSERC...but they were all in cognitive neuroscience.

i've taken lab courses in: neuroscience, orgo I and II, gchem I, bio 1, and molecular and cellular bio lab. overall i think i have a solid lab background.

coralfangs do you call to waive the requirement now? or do you call and check if they'll accept it?

i'm not sure how to approach it when i call them tomorrow. i was just going to say i had a question about prereqs, hopefully they'll direct me to someone, then i'll tell them i'm very interested in the school, but heres the situation.

 

[dr_dre]

Not a UofT student. I would take general chem at a community college or inquire about the analytical chem class.

I don't mean to hijack your thread but since there are some Canadians here: Is anyone sending references electronically? If so how are you doing it? Email or a thirdparty site??

 

[MechEng2Doc]

hi there,

i'm from u of t (university of TORONTO) and my school does not offer general chemistry.

instead we offer physical chemistry 1 (with lab), and physical chemistry II (without lab).

i know some schools won't accept the physical chem II without lab. the only non-organic second year course i can take with lab is ANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY.

its basically a lab course. i'm wondering if this will fulfill the second half of the chem requirement?

i'm going to try to call the schools tomorrow. but i'll also attend the analytical chem lecture tomorrow, just in case it does satisfy the requirement.

Hey,

If you go to the UofT scarborough campus they offer two chemistry courses that will probably meet most US schools requirements (most UofT student applying to US med schools seem to take these courses). They are:

CHMA10H3 Introductory Chemistry I: Structure and Bonding
CHMA11H3 Introductory Chemistry II: Reactions and Mechanisms

The courses are offered in the fall and winter semesters and are offered again in the winter and spring semester, so if your to late to register for this fall you can get it Chem I this winter and Chem II next spring (this is what I'll be doing). Hope this helps.

 

[bananaboat]

Hey,

If you go to the UofT scarborough campus they offer two chemistry courses that will probably meet most US schools requirements (most UofT student applying to US med schools seem to take these courses). They are:

CHMA10H3 Introductory Chemistry I: Structure and Bonding
CHMA11H3 Introductory Chemistry II: Reactions and Mechanisms

The courses are offered in the fall and winter semesters and are offered again in the winter and spring semester, so if your to late to register for this fall you can get it Chem I this winter and Chem II next spring (this is what I'll be doing). Hope this helps.

this is the thing...CHM139 (the U of T st. george campus) is an exclusion to BOTH of those courses. chm139 is a compressed version of both of those courses i believe, or it covers PARTS of both of those courses. so i cannot take the chemistry II.

 

[MechEng2Doc]

this is the thing...CHM139 (the U of T st. george campus) is an exclusion to BOTH of those courses. chm139 is a compressed version of both of those courses i believe, or it covers PARTS of both of those courses. so i cannot take the chemistry II.

Did you try checking the Ryerson or York University websites. One of them may have a course that is similiar to Chemistry I and Chemistry II and since its a different school chm139 at UofT may not technically disqualify you from taking them. The only real disadvantage of this is that you will have to pay a fee to take courses at another university.

 

[bananaboat]

Did you try checking the Ryerson or York University websites. One of them may have a course that is similiar to Chemistry I and Chemistry II and since its a different school chm139 at UofT may not technically disqualify you from taking them. The only real disadvantage of this is that you will have to pay a fee to take courses at another university.

i will be calling ryerson tomorrow and trying ot see if i can find something that will fit into my schedule. ryeron willl be closer to me than york 🙂

but i'm worried about maintaining my full course load for the canadian schools (in case i have to reapply in the future). if i take 4.5 courses at uo f t, and 0.5 at ryerson, will this still constitute a full course load? if i have a really great year next year, and need to reapply in the future, i wouldn't want to not be able to use that year if it only counted as 4.5 courses.

 

[MechEng2Doc]

i will be calling ryerson tomorrow and trying ot see if i can find something that will fit into my schedule. ryeron willl be closer to me than york 🙂

but i'm worried about maintaining my full course load for the canadian schools (in case i have to reapply in the future). if i take 4.5 courses at uo f t, and 0.5 at ryerson, will this still constitute a full course load? if i have a really great year next year, and need to reapply in the future, i wouldn't want to not be able to use that year if it only counted as 4.5 courses.

I would assume this would still be considered a full course load but you should contact a couple of med schools to find out what they say. Good luck.

 

[bananaboat]

I would assume this would still be considered a full course load but you should contact a couple of med schools to find out what they say. Good luck.

thanks a bunch 🙂

good luck to you too!

 

[Xypathos]

UoT does in fact have an Inorganic Chemistry course, two of them in fact but their requirements to getting to them are a little different.

They are as such:

You can take CHM138H and CHM139H or an advanced course, CHM151Y which covers the material of both courses.

Once you've completed this, you'll then take CHM238Y which is the Introductory course in Inorganic Chemistry and you'll finish your Organic Chemistry requirement with CHM247H and CHM249S.

UoT uses their courses a little differently which permits you to learn some basic O-Chem first, then reinforce it with Inorganic, and then return back to advanced O-Chem.

It's quite an interesting idea to teach Chemistry this way, but it works. I have a friend who is at the UoT studying Chemistry and loves the way that they arranged the courses.

You can also find this information on the website of UoT's chemistry department and MD program ... isn't searching the internet wonderful?

 

[coralfangs]

i've done a few research courses and an NSERC...but they were all in cognitive neuroscience.

i've taken lab courses in: neuroscience, orgo I and II, gchem I, bio 1, and molecular and cellular bio lab. overall i think i have a solid lab background.

coralfangs do you call to waive the requirement now? or do you call and check if they'll accept it?

i'm not sure how to approach it when i call them tomorrow. i was just going to say i had a question about prereqs, hopefully they'll direct me to someone, then i'll tell them i'm very interested in the school, but heres the situation.

ya, we pretty much are in the same boat, after taking all those crap lab courses, i don't see a need to do melting point analysis or crystalization again at some community college
i will just wait and see what they want me to do

 

[bananaboat]

Once you've completed this, you'll then take CHM238Y which is the Introductory course in Inorganic Chemistry and you'll finish your Organic Chemistry requirement with CHM247H and CHM249S.
y department and MD program ... isn't searching the internet wonderful?

chm238 (fully year course), chm249 ---> these are actually pretty advanced courses for chemistry students, not human bio majors like myself...anyone from u of t could back me up on this.

they are by no means what is considered "introductory courses". and anyway, i would have a hard time getting into these courses. u of t puts enrollment controls to make sure chem majors/ specialists get priority on these courses over human bio majors like myself.

oh and btw, i have searched the internet on this issue at least 50 + times...course selection has never been more fun 🙄

 

[Miss Alyssa]

if you take the chem course at York or Ryerson, are you going to apply for a transfer credit? If they deem CHM139 to be an exclusion to the second half of chemistry from York or Rye, they wont let that credit count towards your degree. Then you might have issues of "carrying a full courseload". I dunno, but you should check it out

Isnt UofT fun?🙂
Lys

 

[fruits&passion]

I was told that the following works:

Org. Chem - CHM138 + CHM247 for 1 f.c.e.
Phy. Chem - CHM139 + BCH210 for 1 f.c.e.

BCH210 obviously doesn't have a lab component but I've been told that it will suffice for physical chem. I've also been told that inorganic chem is not physical chem.

True? No? No idea...? lol.

Or this is just an idea but is it possible to transfer to York/Ryerson for one semester and then transfer back to UofT? So that your full course load counts..?

 

[allthaticanbe]

I'm on the mississauga campus does anyone know wheter CHM140Y5 covers the requirement?

 

[MossPoh]

CHM139H Chemistry: Physical Principles
3 lectures, 3 lab hours (A), 1 tutorial

"This course is recommended for students in the life and health science programs. The course opens with an introduction to atomic theory; fundamental concepts of spectroscopy and chemical bonding are also introduced. After a brief review of reaction stoichiometries, the structure of matter - gases, liquids, solids and beyond - will be discussed. The solution state is then presented with an emphasis on properties of solutions including chemical equilibria in solution, particularly those of acids and bases. The course concludes with an introduction to the kinetics and the thermodynamics of reactions of both chemical and biochemical interest."

Now I don't know about your campus stuff and what not..I just googled university of toronto chemistry and came up with the website....That course sounds reasonable from there.....Probably didn't help at all but I don't know.

 

[fruits&passion]

CHM139H Chemistry: Physical Principles
3 lectures, 3 lab hours (A), 1 tutorial

"This course is recommended for students in the life and health science programs. The course opens with an introduction to atomic theory; fundamental concepts of spectroscopy and chemical bonding are also introduced. After a brief review of reaction stoichiometries, the structure of matter - gases, liquids, solids and beyond - will be discussed. The solution state is then presented with an emphasis on properties of solutions including chemical equilibria in solution, particularly those of acids and bases. The course concludes with an introduction to the kinetics and the thermodynamics of reactions of both chemical and biochemical interest."

Now I don't know about your campus stuff and what not..I just googled university of toronto chemistry and came up with the website....That course sounds reasonable from there.....Probably didn't help at all but I don't know.

huh? what do you mean reasonable?

 

[MossPoh]

huh? what do you mean reasonable?

As in the course description and how it applies to what a general chemistry course usually includes.