UAB pathology program

[Ipsilateral]

Hello,

Can someone familiar with the UAB pathology residency program tell me about its strong and particularly weak aspects? I am working on my ROL and somehow have not jotted down the program's drawbacks. Likely because it was the first program I interviewed. In general, I am comparing it with the likes of Stony Brook, Cornell, Baylor, Emory, UoC and WashU programs.

Thank you!

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[NotRyanLee]

I am a resident at the UAB, not in Pathology, but I can assure you of overall quality of UAB residencies.

I will tell you about one important aspect that is generally not discussed while generating an ROL- Stipend. I joined here last year, and did not worry about this when I made my own ROL, and now I am regretting that I didn't think about this. If I had, I would have put UAB way down.

The situation is this: Let us look at stipends first - among some of your programs..

--------SB------UC------Emory---UAB
PGY1 $55,677 $49,291 $47,787 $46,806
PGY2 $59,410 $51,455 $50,455 $47,402
PGY3 $62,822 $53,186 $52,437 $48,616

You will say, not a big deal, because
(1) They look similar,
(2) It is Birmingham after all, cost of living is way down.
Let us systemically examine these statements:

(1) They look similar:
Have you considered that UAB does not pay for resident's health insurance? For a resident with family, the most basic plan is (283.50+48.74+24.44=$356/month=$4280/year). Forget about Metlife plan ($12,000/year). For all other programs you are comparing it with, health insurance is free. I think of UAB health benefits as highly discriminatory to families. So, take out $4280/year from UAB stipend. a revised stipend looks like this.

--------SB------UC------Emory---UAB
PGY1 $55,677 $49,291 $47,787 $42,526
PGY2 $59,410 $51,455 $50,455 $43,122
PGY3 $62,822 $53,186 $52,437 $44,336

Now it looks quite different. But you can still say:
(2) It is Birmingham after all, cost of living is way down.
Sure, if you look up any Cost of Living calculator, B'ham is about 30% less than NY, Chicago, or Atlanta. But that is a wrong way to do it. As a resident with a family, you can not live in B'ham, because of the schools or safety. You will have to live in one of the following suburbs. Hoover, Homewood, Vestavia Hills, Mountain Brook. Compare cost of living for these suburbs with NY, Chicago, Atlanta or their suburbs. You will see that now B'ham becomes similar or even costlier than NY, Chi, Atlanta!

Here is a direct quote from my real estate agent: "We are an expensive city from a housing standpoint. Because of our schools and everyone's need to be nearer to work (no real public transportation), we are pricey". The same is true for apartment rents.

All of the above considerations are of great importance if you have a family or thinking of starting a family. If so, rank it down at the bottom, and you will not regret.

And if you still end up matching at UAB, residency programs are great!

 

[2121115]

Hello,

Can someone familiar with the UAB pathology residency program tell me about its strong and particularly weak aspects? I am working on my ROL and somehow have not jotted down the program's drawbacks. Likely because it was the first program I interviewed. In general, I am comparing it with the likes of Stony Brook, Cornell, Baylor, Emory, UoC and WashU programs.

Thank you!

UAB is a good program with good training. I would say it's main weakness would be that it is a relatively young program, so finding connections with alumni who are experienced enough to be doing the hiring may be hard. It doesn't have the "name brand" value that WashU and Emory (and even Baylor) have so that is something to consider as well. Overall though, it is a good program.

 

[ALRes]

I am at UAB but am not a path resident. My impression is that the path residency is quite strong. The program director, Dr. Alexander, is current president of one of the national path organizations.

As far as cost of living in the greater Birmingham area, it is definitely less expensive than the other areas mentioned. Certainly there are expensive neighborhoods, but there are reasonably priced houses and apartments available in the surrounding suburbs. Most residents that I know with families do buy houses. This may be changing with concerns about ability to sell on completion of residency in the current market. Although health insurance isn't provided, individual health insurance is very reasonable for residents. I doubt any programs mentioned provide family coverage, so the family coverage plans would have to be compared among the programs if that is a concern. The above post also includes the costs for family dental and family vision insurance in addition to medical.

 

[2121115]

UAB's health insurance coverage doesn't sound different than anywhere else. Anywhere you are, the total premium for family health coverage is close to $1,000 per month, and that is if everyone is healthy. Most (?all) GME programs subsidize most of that premium as a benefit, leaving the resident responsible for $200-300 which is paid with pre-tax money.

As far as the example goes, for all of the other programs listed you would need to subtract the same amount.

If you think that family health coverage costs only $300 per month, then you need to educate yourself a little bit.

 

[BamaAlum]

I was a resident and fellow at UAB (finished in 2010). I am very happy with the training that I received. I think that UAB compares very favorably to its main regional competitors, Emory and Vanderbilt. UAB is fairly balanced, having both strong AP and CP divisions. No problems with passing Boards. All of my residency class passed AP/CP and sub specialty Boards on first attempt. The faculty, residents and fellows all work very well together and there is very little strife within the department. The residents seem to be happy and the stress level seems lower than I have heard in some programs. While it may not carry the same weight nationally, UAB has a great regional reputation and I know of several private practice groups (including my own) that have large UAB contingencies.

A lot of the faculty (including the Chair) trained at WashU and the Department has somewhat of a reputation of being a Southern outpost for WashU. If there is a weakness I would say it would be that there isn't that one superstar surgical pathologist in the department (ala Sharon Weiss, David Page, Epstein, etc). The surg path faculty are incredibly strong, but they aren't at the rockstar level like those above. CP has traditionally been a strong point of the program and I have to say that most of us didn't sweat that portion of the Boards because of our confidence in our CP training (although we still studied like crazy for it. We aren't stupid!)

Research opportunities are abundant and range from hardcore bench research to simple clinical projects. Most residents engage in at least a couple projects and the Department, like most, pays for you to attend national meetings to present. Our fellowship placement is good and most residents end up with the fellowship of their choice. As stated above, Dr. A is president of ASCP and is well connected. This helps tremendously at fellowship application time.

Overall, I think you will receive excellent training at UAB. The environment is not malignant and you will be able to pursue whatever career trajectory you choose. While the UAB name is certainly helpful in the Southeast, I don't think it would be a detriment in other parts of the country.

 

[Path or bust]

Hello,

Can someone familiar with the UAB pathology residency program tell me about its strong and particularly weak aspects? I am working on my ROL and somehow have not jotted down the program's drawbacks. Likely because it was the first program I interviewed. In general, I am comparing it with the likes of Stony Brook, Cornell, Baylor, Emory, UoC and WashU programs.

Thank you!

I am a path resident at another program but interviewed at UAB.

I can say with confidence that it is a high quality program and you will succeed. The program director is fantastic and a advocate for residents. They have fellowships in anything you want and the residents and fellows are all in very good positions. I would have been happy going there.

One thing I really liked is that you can do a year of fellowship with your electives. For example, if you've saved all your electives, you can do a GI fellowship your fourth year of residency. I found that to be amazing. Looking back on it, I was foolish to not pick them. They truly have it all.

 

[ALPath]

I am a past graduate of the UAB residency and did a fellowship at UAB. I feel that my training was good and has served me well in my practice. Residents do well on boards and move on to fellowships and jobs throughout the country. I agree with BamaAlum that one of the weaknesses of the program is lack of name recognition of the surg path faculty. That has changed some with the addition of Dr. Margaret Brandwein-Gensler as section head for surgical pathology. She is well known within her specialty of ENT pathology, and has served as president of the national head and neck pathology organization. The departmental administration are also well known and connected nationally as mentioned above. Facilities at UAB are unbelievable with lots of well lighted, not in basement space allocated for pathology. Research opportunities abound. UAB residents usually have a prominent presence in the poster presentations at the national meetings. The biggest problem that UAB has is location. It is a great program, but getting someone (and potentially a spouse) from outside of the south to consider a move to Birminham, AL is an uphill battle. When people do come to visit they are usually suprised at what UAB and the Birmingham area have to offer.

 

[Euchromatin]

One thing I really liked is that you can do a year of fellowship with your electives. For example, if you've saved all your electives, you can do a GI fellowship your fourth year of residency. I found that to be amazing. Looking back on it, I was foolish to not pick them. They truly have it all.

I just checked UAB's residency program website because this seemed nearly unbelievable to me. The programs I interviewed at offered 3-4 elective months at most, with 2-3 on average. According to their website, http://residency.path.uab.edu/curriculum.htm, they really do have a ton of elective time. It seems like a lot of it is designated specifically as AP or CP electives though. I find it unlikely that they would really let an AP/CP resident use all of that CP elective time to do a "GI fellowhip" during fourth year - can anyone who is actually a resident there now comment on this? It also seems like a resident there could easily end up with weaknesses in some areas if they avoided doing electives in a particular area they didn't care for - maybe the PD has some electives that are "strongly encouraged" or something??

 

[BamaAlum]

I just checked UAB's residency program website because this seemed nearly unbelievable to me. The programs I interviewed at offered 3-4 elective months at most, with 2-3 on average. According to their website, http://residency.path.uab.edu/curriculum.htm, they really do have a ton of elective time. It seems like a lot of it is designated specifically as AP or CP electives though. I find it unlikely that they would really let an AP/CP resident use all of that CP elective time to do a "GI fellowhip" during fourth year - can anyone who is actually a resident there now comment on this? It also seems like a resident there could easily end up with weaknesses in some areas if they avoided doing electives in a particular area they didn't care for - maybe the PD has some electives that are "strongly encouraged" or something??

Yep, it's true. As long as you have completed all of your required AP and CP rotations you can use your 4th year for the GI fellowship. However, the GI fellowship is not currently offered as they are recruiting a GI pathology faculty member. Yes, you do sacrifice electives in other areas, which can be seen as a weakness. I considered it, but this is why I ultimately decided against it. I wanted to make sure I had a broad AP exposure.

 

[Myelofibrosis]

UAB is a good program!

 

[towncar]

I have interviewed the UAB program this year, and have researched it as thoroughly as possible. I can unequivocally say that it is a very good program. The elective flexibility that is discussed in prior posts is a very strong aspect, and shows, if nothing else, how much they are responsive to residents' needs. The weaker aspects are also well discussed here. i.e. lack of nationally/internationally renowned attendings. I would add that subspecialty sign-outs involve tracking down several attendings on a daily basis by the residents. Preview time, given two-day grossing cycle, may not be ideal for some, too.

That said, I thoroughly agree with NotRyanLee (second post) about the compensation issue. Even if we discount family health coverage (actually, it should not be discounted given that no other program I have interviewed requires close to $350/month for a basic family health package; cursory look suggests a range of $100-200/month), UAB does pay low stipends. And as NotRyan correctly points out, living costs for UAB suburbs is about equivalent to living in suburbs of any big city in the country. So, "southern cost of living" argument does not really work for UAB however much they would like to exploit the argument.

Whether they admit it or not, stipend is a big consideration for a lot of candidates. The fact that such a good program continues to struggle even in attracting good candidates from southern medical schools suggests that stipend may be a possible reason. Anybody who has interviewed the place, looked around, talked with locals, is unlikely to rank it at the bottom just because it is Birmingham, Alabama, folks!

I am a statistics nerd, so once intrigued by RyanLee's comment, I pooled data for all 'good' programs that did or did not scramble last year (UAB path being one of the scramblers), analyzed all factors that I could think of (location, size, big name, fellowships, number of attendings, stipend.. such 16 factors) for their impact on two outcomes (scramble and 100% match). I found 'low stipend' to be most positively correlated with the 'scramble' outcome (score=0.93; 1.0 being 100% positive correlation). So in the spirit of free market and competition, I think UAB needs to raise its stipend levels by $5000/year for becoming at par with the other programs, and $10,000 for becoming competitive. (Precisely those numbers according to my rigorous analysis )

Arguments can be made about 'my method'. But my "gut feeling", which is ranked highly by the candidates as the ultimate deciding factor, tells me that I would love to be able to spend an extra $500-1000/month-evenings in futile entertaining pursuits for a period of four golden years of my life. And UAB falls short of that noble standard. So, even though I don't have a family, nor do I plan to procreate one in these godforsaken times, I have not ranked UAB high despite it being a good program.

 

[mlw03]

interesting analysis, towncar. it'd be nice to say money doesn't matter and folks go where training is best, but we're all young (or not so young) adults with financial responsibilities. being able to have a decent standard of living is important. unless the path department is flush with cash, being able to increase salary is an institution-wide issue, but i strongly agree that 42K is just too darn low in 2012, regardless of geography.

 

[Bezoarz]

Hi.
Are there any Pathologists near the Tuscaloosa or Birmingham area (especially UAB grads) interested in part-time "side" opportunites?
Please PM me.

PS. I am not a recruiter, I am actually a practicing Pathologist.

Thanks.

 

[Ipsilateral]

Thank you, guys!

That was a very informed discussion and I learned a lot about UAB program. I wish there were discussion about each individual programs!

In the end, what I feel is that when comparing academic programs, it is difficult to rank them based on their program structure and other fine details, because even I don't know what will work best for me. Also, everybody is on their best foot on the interview day (half-day, really), so I would not know some of their weaknesses. That is when tangible benefits like stipend makes it easy to finely rank them! UAB stipend is definitely low compared to most other programs on my list (not all). So I agree with that part of the discussion too.

 

[star23]

If you have a family, the cost of health insurance is NOT a small item. This was something I paid particular attention to when I was matching a while ago. At that time, of the places I interviewed, Florida and Iowa were the two I remembered that offered completely FREE family health insurance coverage with NO COPAYS and NO Deductibles/coinsurance. If you have kids, think you may have kids or have a spouse that needs your insurance coverage, th is something to pay attention to if you are decided between programs. If your like me you have enough student loans and don't need to take out extra loans just to pay off medical bills if someone in your family needs surgery.

 

[green mantis]

Since some of you have mentioned stipends, you should also consider food & parking in addition to health insurance. Some programs provide free food & parking; some will provide one & not the other; & some have you foot the bill for both. I did a food calculation during residency. If you decided to eat all of your meals or get hospital food for Mon - Fri, it would be a benefit of a few thousand dollars (not exactly chump change).

I'm not sure if the department at UAB is wealthy or not, but they can probably give a stipend to residents & fellows if they think they're losing out on quality applicants because of financial issues. It doesn't need to be an institution-wide thing.

Also, it's probably not fair to place programs in NYC in the salary discussion. I've noticed that they always pay more. Do all programs get the same amount per resident from the government?


----- Antony

 

[BU Pathology]

Since some of you have mentioned stipends, you should also consider food & parking in addition to health insurance. Some programs provide free food & parking; some will provide one & not the other; & some have you foot the bill for both. I did a food calculation during residency. If you decided to eat all of your meals or get hospital food for Mon - Fri, it would be a benefit of a few thousand dollars (not exactly chump change).

I'm not sure if the department at UAB is wealthy or not, but they can probably give a stipend to residents & fellows if they think they're losing out on quality applicants because of financial issues. It doesn't need to be an institution-wide thing.

Also, it's probably not fair to place programs in NYC in the salary discussion. I've noticed that they always pay more. Do all programs get the same amount per resident from the government?


----- Antony

The amount of Graduate Medical Education dollars available is different for each institution and covers a fairly large range.

However, it is critical to bear in mind the formula used to actually pay the hospitals. This formula is the negotiated funds per resident times the % beds occupied by Medicare patients.

To provide a specific example. If the funds per resident are $100,000 per year, and the % beds occupied by Medicare patients is 22%, then the hospital will recieve $22,000 per resident per year. Medicare also provides Indirect Medical Education funds, which are approximately half of the Graduate Medical Education dollars. Those numbers listed above are approximations, but they are relatively close to actual figures.

Resident education is a critical component of academic medical centers, but residency programs typically cost more than the funds they generate.

Daniel Remick, M.D.
Chair of Pathology and Laboratory Medicine
Boston University School of Medicine & Boston Medical Center

 

[brainsalads]

As a current resident at UAB Pathology I'll give my two cents. I will try to address everything thats been talked about other than money stuff because I am single and the salary we get is more than enough for me. I love working here.Ill say that people here get awesome fellowships: Stanford surg path, Duke Cytopath, BWH breast/surpath, MD Anderson, Sloan Kettering....these are just the ones last year and this year. We take internal candidiates for preference too. Our facilities are better than most "top places", the Cytology area was just finished, which is top notch. People may not appreciate it, but the grossing facilities at many insitutions are nasty. We have brightly lit areas with 8 stations, all with a touch screen and computer and hands free dictating. While on surg path, you get plenty of time to preview. The subspecialty sign out is a much better format. I see everything I gross, and the grossing is focused. If im on ENT, I gross only ENT and see everything the next day. I get there around 7:30 and start previewing. Say I have a foot tall stack of cases, the attendings just tell you to come by when you have seen everything, there is no pressure. I've always had enough preview time. And there isnt much to "tracking down" attendings considering they are all in their offices down the hall. We have lots of conferences that the attendings give: frozens, GYN, dermpath, cytology. Many of these are unknown conferences around the scope which is fun. There is not a malignant aspect about this program really. Plenty of research opportunities for those who are motivated. We were in the top 5 institutions for number of USCAP abstracts accepted for 2011 and 2012. We also get everything paid for if we get accepted for any conference: plane, rooms, conference registration and.....$150 a DAY for food. You dont have to use vacation days either. Its a great incentive because you get to go to great places and put lines on your CV. I have rarely ever worked past 5 pm and we know our sh#t too. But then again, Pathology is a self-motivated discipline, you can cruise through with little effort if you really want to. Our call is home call and can be hit or miss if you are on CP call with the blood bank. Many call nights though I dont get paged at all.And you dont take call for autopsies which is awesome, we can that done in our 4 months of Autopsy, we usually have around 40 cases each when we are done, and we still have a Forensics month so we all have no problem getting our 50. REsidents hang out and get beer and pizza together all the time. Overall I am very fortunate to be at UAB, email me with any questions.

 

[superkeith]

We were in the top 5 institutions for number of USCAP abstracts accepted for 2011 and 201

i bet fred silva sends out "top 5" uscap letters to at least 20 programs. not knocking... uab sounds like a great program.

 

[Torsed]

Did you ask about the "shark tank" at UAB. Has anyone mentioned that to you?
Classic to make female residents cry....boo hoo!

 

[brainsalads]

In reply to the "shark tank". The only thing Torsed could be talking about is the Lab Medicine Seminars and/or Journal clubs that the residents give. Each year we give one Journal Club on a single article (topic background and critique of an article) and one Seminar (three articles that address a "question" you ask about a topic", for example "Is plasma Cystatin a replacement for Creatinine" and so forth. Apparently it was pretty bad several years ago before I arrived. Its relatively benign now. As long as you know the articles you present its fine. Its likely you have to field questions and defend your stance, but for the most part it is all in an academic spirit. Basically there is only one attending that lends to the "shark tank" nature, and kinda depdends on his mood that day haha. He is usually easier on the girls though.