U Chicago vs. Northwestern
Does anyone have an opinion about this???
Does anyone have an opinion about this???
UChicago VS. Northwestern
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Chicsgo hands down. NU kids are a bunch of babies compared to the intelectually and emotionally mature (and stuck up) kids that Pritzker recruits. Of course, the NU kids are smarter...but I personally feel more comfy with the UC kids. Just my $.02, of course. Both are fab schools.
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A large chunk of the NU class comes from the undergraduate/MD program they instill, so half the kids already know each other and cliques have been formed. NU may have a ritzier location, but the hefty price tag on your education (and cost of living) make sure you pay for it. Pritzker blows away NU as far as research is concerned. The significantly higher residency director scores at Pritzker indicate more desirable residency placement coming out of Pritzker than at NU.
IMHO, I'd go with Pritzker hands-down.
As for the "the NU kids are smarter" comment, how did you come to this conclusion?
IMHO, I'd go with Pritzker hands-down.
As for the "the NU kids are smarter" comment, how did you come to this conclusion?
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Umm...I was trying to be nice. Seriously, though, I think that they have higher MCAT/GPA, which has to be worth something. I mean WashU is like #2 in USNews because they're MCAT ******...and I think the kids who get into one of the top BA/MD programs in the country are probably pretty damn smart...even if they're a bit unmotivated in college.
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Hmmm, so in your opinion, the kids at WashU are smarter than the kids at Harvard? 😛
Honestly, I think Pritzker just looks for some more defining character qualities other than MCAT/GPA than most schools, hence the long and arduous secondary application. That's why many people with super high numbers get the boot from Pritzker admissions-- the extent of their credentials lies solely in their numbers.
TF
Honestly, I think Pritzker just looks for some more defining character qualities other than MCAT/GPA than most schools, hence the long and arduous secondary application. That's why many people with super high numbers get the boot from Pritzker admissions-- the extent of their credentials lies solely in their numbers.
TF
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Ostensibly, on some level, yes.
And dude, I did say that the kids at Pritzker are more intelectually and emotionally mature...I think that's what Pritzker's application process screens for. However, after kids make it through that they tend to think they're all that (like Harvard kids, incidentally)...and Pritzker seems to not be very committed to recruiting URMs. So, frankly, I was more impressed by the humility, diversity, and accomplishments of Hopkins kids than I was with Pritzker (or Harvard or Columbia) kids.
I think we both agree that we'd take UC over NU in a heartbeat, and your nit picking over my comments is a perfect indicator of the lack of humility of Pritzker and its adherents.
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I don't know about all this "who's smarter than who stuff," but there is one very real difference that both schools will acknowledge if asked. That is that NU focuses much more on educating clinicians, while Pritzker focuses more on educating researchers. A member of Pritzker's admissions committee once said that she doesn't understand people having a hard time choosing between the two schools because of their totally different emphases. My humble opinion is that this discussion of intellectualy maturity, etc. is nothing to really be concerned with, since the truth of the matter is most likely not as clear cut and simple one individual might present it.
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First of all, I wasnt trying to be an ass or nit-picking as you interpreted, but I was genuinely about how does one actually measure "smartness". I apologize if asking thought-provoking questions comes across as having no humility. 😀 I still don't think that MCAT/GPA is a consistently reliable measure of intelligence, but whatever, I don't even feel like discussing that anymore.
The only reason I'm responding now is because you just made some egregiously incorrect statements about the diversity of some schools (I'm assuming that diversity is proportional to the percentage of URM's present in the class, as you did above.) *Pulls out 2004-2005 MSAR* For starters, Pritzker had a 13% URM makeup in last year's entering class versus NU's 5%. Comparing the so-called top schools, Harvard was 23% URM, and Hopkins (why are they in this discussion?) was 17.5% URM. So by that analysis, which schools were more diverse again? Besides, I don't think this discussion is very significant to what the OP asked.
Back to the topic, OP, we both say Pritzker!
TF
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It's true that Pritzker and Feinberg are very different:
1. U of Chicago's hospital serves more minority (African Americans) than Northwestern Memorial (Which is a high class hotel-like hospital)
2. U of Chicago focuses on thinking skills in science and medicine, Northwestern on actual clinical skills.
3. Pritzker has traditional curriculum with longer hours of instruction. Feinberg has short lectures and PBL elements.
4. Feinberg is located on downtown, near Michigan Avenue and face Lake Michigan. Pritzker is in Hyde Park, a somewhat less vibrant neighborhood in my opinion.
1. U of Chicago's hospital serves more minority (African Americans) than Northwestern Memorial (Which is a high class hotel-like hospital)
2. U of Chicago focuses on thinking skills in science and medicine, Northwestern on actual clinical skills.
3. Pritzker has traditional curriculum with longer hours of instruction. Feinberg has short lectures and PBL elements.
4. Feinberg is located on downtown, near Michigan Avenue and face Lake Michigan. Pritzker is in Hyde Park, a somewhat less vibrant neighborhood in my opinion.
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NU and UofC are like day and night. Its not a matter of who is better, it is a matter of what kind of education you want. If you are hardcore research go to UofC. If you are more of a hands on clinical person go to NU. And I dunno about you guys...I hate sitting in lecture or class. But if you like torturing yourself with lecture or class the whole day, then go to UofC. I'm out by noon 3 days a week and by 3pm the other two days. The last factor would be location...are you ok with living in the south side of Chicago or in the Magnificent Mile area?
In the end both are great schools. It will come down to how and where you want to learn and what you are after in your career IMO. It really bugs me when people bust out with so and so school is better as if there is some huge football rivalry btwn UofC and NU. I'm not big on research...in fact I hate it. I'm not a fan of sitting around in class all day. The choice was easy for me. But people are different just like the schools. Choose based on what you are looking for in a school not what people say is better or worst and who base their thoughts about a school on rankings/gpa/mcat scores. Both schools attract top notch students.
As far as our honors program kids...they are not cliquey at all. They hang out all the time...and they are friggin geniuses to boot. So unless you hang out with these kids on a daily basis don't go around town spreading false rumors about how "cliquey" they are.
ok...i'm done. 😀
In the end both are great schools. It will come down to how and where you want to learn and what you are after in your career IMO. It really bugs me when people bust out with so and so school is better as if there is some huge football rivalry btwn UofC and NU. I'm not big on research...in fact I hate it. I'm not a fan of sitting around in class all day. The choice was easy for me. But people are different just like the schools. Choose based on what you are looking for in a school not what people say is better or worst and who base their thoughts about a school on rankings/gpa/mcat scores. Both schools attract top notch students.
As far as our honors program kids...they are not cliquey at all. They hang out all the time...and they are friggin geniuses to boot. So unless you hang out with these kids on a daily basis don't go around town spreading false rumors about how "cliquey" they are.
ok...i'm done. 😀
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I like research.
As to research, I believe NU and UChicago's NIH research funding was nearly the same(off by a few million?). NU has some great research facilities/opportunities as well!
As to residency assesments, they differed by only 0.3? That's not a huge difference and I'm sure it changes year to year.
I would have liked to have gotten an invite from UChicago and even wrote all over my essays, I like research and stuff, but they still gave me the finger so go figure.
As to research, I believe NU and UChicago's NIH research funding was nearly the same(off by a few million?). NU has some great research facilities/opportunities as well!
As to residency assesments, they differed by only 0.3? That's not a huge difference and I'm sure it changes year to year.
I would have liked to have gotten an invite from UChicago and even wrote all over my essays, I like research and stuff, but they still gave me the finger so go figure.
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OK, TF, truce on who is smarter and crap. But Holy Crap!! 5%!! My undergrad is like 40% URM. Maybe it's just a geographical thing, although Chicago seemed to be full of blacks and Chicanos last time I was there. All I knew was that Pritzker seemed less diverse than Hopkins. The truth is, I haven't spent a lot of time with NU kids, although I suspect UCLAMAN is right about some of the honors kids being geniuses. I don't think I could go to a school that was 5% URM, though. It's downright disturbing. Just out of curiousity, according to your MSAR, which tier 1 or tier 2 schools have the highest %? (Other than the historically black ones, like Howard, Morehouse...) I'm just starting to realize how important to me that is...
Thanks man...sorry to be such an ass in some of my previous posts.
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First of all, I do think WashU kids are smarter than Harvard ones, but that is my opinion. As far as reputation for people that live in the Chicagoland area, loyola has the best clinical reputation except in the neuro stuff where Northwestern is known for. U of C is far better than NU in most every other aspect, including research.
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To be honest, I think these types of threads are childish - X is smarter then Y, Z is better then X.
Who cares what school is better. They are all MD schools and 20 years from now, is it really going to matter?
IMO, it boils down to what school is better for you! If you see yourself happy at Uchicago, then go there. If you see yourself happy at NU, then go there.
My $0.02.
Who cares what school is better. They are all MD schools and 20 years from now, is it really going to matter?
IMO, it boils down to what school is better for you! If you see yourself happy at Uchicago, then go there. If you see yourself happy at NU, then go there.
My $0.02.
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i was much more into northwestern than the U of C. i like their curriculum much better (i think i'm going to learn better with more PBL and less lecture-memorization-test), they seem more supportive of students (by which i mean supportive of students being real people, not just super doctors - this is kind of an intangible thing, and i can only speak from my own impressions - U of C lovers please don't flame me for saying so), less competitive atmosphere, students seemed more laid back and "like me". overall, it just seemed like a better fit for me. i agree with everyone who said this just depends on your personal preferences... both are great schools - i think maybe even tied in the US news rankings - but very different.
as for maturity level of students - most of the posters discussing the maturity level also refer to med students as "kids". from this, i draw the conclusion that most of you are going to med school straight from college or at least not very far removed from college. that being the case, i don't think you will notice a difference in maturity level. that might be more of an issue for older med students. i looked into this really thoroughly and asked a lot of people about it cause i was concerned. the answer i have gotten is that although NU has a lower average age than many other schools due to a good chunk of students coming straight from their BS-MD program, these students are really exceptional people, and they do just fine at working on the same level, both intellectually and personally, as older med students. i don't think it is that big an issue in reality... just in some people's heads.
as for maturity level of students - most of the posters discussing the maturity level also refer to med students as "kids". from this, i draw the conclusion that most of you are going to med school straight from college or at least not very far removed from college. that being the case, i don't think you will notice a difference in maturity level. that might be more of an issue for older med students. i looked into this really thoroughly and asked a lot of people about it cause i was concerned. the answer i have gotten is that although NU has a lower average age than many other schools due to a good chunk of students coming straight from their BS-MD program, these students are really exceptional people, and they do just fine at working on the same level, both intellectually and personally, as older med students. i don't think it is that big an issue in reality... just in some people's heads.
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I disagree that somehow the U of C is so much better in research than Northwestern. I am a hardcore research person and I was accepted into both programs. I was ready to go to NU's program over the U of C without hesitation. There are some issues I didn't like with the U of C MD/PhD program, but I won't go into those. I think research is comparable between the two. As someone pointed out, they have similar funding amounts and I think both have strengths and weaknesses in different areas but are equally strong overall. What I liked about Northwestern is the great location, and I was very unimpressed by Hyde Park in contrast. I also liked the low classroom time PBL cirriculum at NU, while U of C's cirriculum seemed much more traditional when I was there.
I think that the U of C is geared more towards primary care specialties than NU. This is reflected in the location and patient base of the U of C vs. NU. That's fine, MD/PhDs like me are heading into specialty work. If you are interested in primary care, I would say NU really isn't the best place to be. I was told as much by a couple NU students when I was there. But if you aren't, than it's a great place to be.
Just my two cents...
I think that the U of C is geared more towards primary care specialties than NU. This is reflected in the location and patient base of the U of C vs. NU. That's fine, MD/PhDs like me are heading into specialty work. If you are interested in primary care, I would say NU really isn't the best place to be. I was told as much by a couple NU students when I was there. But if you aren't, than it's a great place to be.
Just my two cents...
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It's important to mention that these reputations apply to their hospitals, not their medical schools. It is for this reason that many of Loyola's residency programs are considered some of the very best in the country, while it's medical school (though a solid school, don't get me wrong) does not enjoy the same prestige.
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Go wherever you'll be happy. Yes, the schools carry very different emphases, so go to one that will peak your interests. Lastly, don't forget about cost, location (proximity to home), etc., and consider a wide variety of schools. Those factors can make a big difference in your happiness down the road.
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Let me get this straight: you go to school in West Philly, but you turned down U of C because you didn't like Hyde Park. Hmm. Well, I guess if you're already a cocaine addict, you'll fit in great in West Philly.
Sorry Eric, you know I love you (and Penn, for that matter), but Hyde Park rocks!
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So Penn Med is right across the river in West Philly. West Philly doesn't actually get bad until you go a ways out of the city (high 40th streets? Penn is on 36th). Besides, most of the med students here live in Center City and walk (10 - 25 minutes depending on where, 15 here) or bike over. It's also not bad to just take the subway on over. Unfortunately, UChicago is not on any EL lines, but Penn is right off of a main subway line here. I hear there is a rapid transit line out on the edges of Hyde Park, but the students said it's pretty shady to get over there.
From what I saw of both schools, I felt much safer around Penn than I did around UChicago. Maybe others disagree with me? I think Philly gets a bad reputation sometimes, but center city and the area around Penn are both nice places to live.
Still, both Penn and UChicago pale in comparison to Northwestern's posh envrionment, unless you have some reason that you don't wanna be in an awesome urban landscape 🙂 Maybe it's too cold?
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well said.
northwestern actually had more NIH funds last year than U of C.
$35,616 701 vs. $31,238 403.
i don't know how you can justify the argument that U of C is heads above northwestern in terms of research. and it's not like the aggregate NIH funds of a whole university is going to really have any relevance on an individual medical student.
while applying to residencies:
if you manage to get several publications in respectable journals, even if you go to a "non-top 50" ranked medical school, that's going to make more of an impact than an applicant who went to a "research university" but never touched a pipet in his/her life.
in general, i hear alot of crap talked by U of C students on northwestern, and frankly i don't see why they feel the need to do so. i rarely hear anyone at northwestern talk smack on U of C, in fact i personally think it's a great school.
as others have mentioned, for people who are considering the two universities, i'd recommend using the differing styles of curriculum as the determinant factor in deciding which university is better for you.
northwestern actually had more NIH funds last year than U of C.
$35,616 701 vs. $31,238 403.
i don't know how you can justify the argument that U of C is heads above northwestern in terms of research. and it's not like the aggregate NIH funds of a whole university is going to really have any relevance on an individual medical student.
while applying to residencies:
if you manage to get several publications in respectable journals, even if you go to a "non-top 50" ranked medical school, that's going to make more of an impact than an applicant who went to a "research university" but never touched a pipet in his/her life.
in general, i hear alot of crap talked by U of C students on northwestern, and frankly i don't see why they feel the need to do so. i rarely hear anyone at northwestern talk smack on U of C, in fact i personally think it's a great school.
as others have mentioned, for people who are considering the two universities, i'd recommend using the differing styles of curriculum as the determinant factor in deciding which university is better for you.
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heh. Hyde Park is a terrible neighborhood. West Philly's bad too. Northwestern is on the Gold Coast. posh area, to be sure. you will hear gunshots all the time at night if you live in hyde park. I can't speak personally for west philly, but I assume, from what I've heard, that it's about the same environment (maybe not, though). NU is not in a bad area...not in the slightest. it blows my mind when people say that pritzker and feinberg offer the same kind of living environment, etc. NU is in an incredibly posh, rich neighborhood. pritzker is in hyde park, which is just about as terrible as they come.
for those who think that UChicago and NU are similar, you are so, so very mistaken. take it from someone who's lived in the area for most of his life, there are so many differences it's ridiculous. positives and negatives to both environments, obviously. I know a lot of kids who go to undergrad at UChicago, though. thought I should at least mention what they say about their school. they say, "University of Chicago, where fun comes to die."
either way, NU and UC offer entirely different environments for their schools. priztker = hyde park = crime-ridden area. NU = gold coast = rish ass mother f*ckers.
on another note, UC is not necessarily "heads above Northwestern" in terms of NIH funding. it's just that UC tends to train more academically/research-oriented MD's than Northwestern. the emphasis is different. this has been acknowledged by both schools. Different emphases, different schools. One may not be "better" than the other. that's not the point. God, I wish that people would stop being obsessed with the "better" school and start caring about what fits them best.
salty.
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It is absolutely not. Maybe about 20 blocks west of Penn or in South Philly (10 blocks? South or Southwest) that will be true. Penn campus and the area surrounding it are great. This has alot to do with Penn being right along the river next to Center City and the whole area around the school being dominated by Penn students and faculty.
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As a Pritzker alum, I find these discussions rather amusing, especially regarding the difference in location between the U of C and Northwestern. I myself lived in Hyde Park at first because I didn't know Chicago well, but later moved to the Gold Coast area and drove the measly 15 minutes down LSD to the hospital (which I still do now). I think Northwestern is a great place for an education, but don't choose a school based on its location. If you like Pritzker but think Hyde Park is dull, just do what myself and lots of my classmates did -- live downtown, Lincoln Park, Bucktown, etc. and just drive to school. Who wants to live right near where they "work," anyway?
Best of luck to all in your decisions.
Best of luck to all in your decisions.
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Somewhere along the line, this debate on which school one should choose ran off in the wrong direction. As a native Chicagoan, with more than a passing familiarity with the city, I feel obligated to say that Hyde Park is not "crine-ridden". Washington Park and Jackson Park (two adjacent neighborhoods) are, however. The members of all surrounding communities, including some in northwest Indiana and other areas, travel to UofC to seek treatment. This makes for a diverse patient population that is predominantly African-American--with an increasing amount of Latinos as patients.
Hyde Park is actually pretty nice. Carol Mosely Braun and Louis Farrakhan both live there. Not only they, but many of UofC's non-minority faculty and hospital clinicians live in the neighborhood. Speaks volumes about how terrible the neighborhood is, huh?
As far as curriculum goes, PBL vs. traditional didactic lectures is a matter of taste. However, take note that traditional does not equal being held hostage by boring lecturers all day. Lectures are optional, and independent learners (such as myself) can and do feel comfortable with UofC's curriculum. Furthermore, we don't learn for sake of memorization, although there is a fair amount of that, as there will be at any program at any professional school. UofC has not earned the reputation as "teacher of teachers" by educating its students to memorize.
Research is research. There are plenty of oppoutunites at both schools. Personally, I think Northwestern is great. The location is great (yet expensive), and it compares favorably with UofC in many aspects except for one. . .
I go there. 😛
If that doesn't sweeten the pot in UofC's favor, then there's no hope for you in this lifetime.
I probably forgot to address something, but this post was long enough. Sorry.
Neuronix, tell Nooreen I said "Hi."
Go, Maroons!
Hyde Park is actually pretty nice. Carol Mosely Braun and Louis Farrakhan both live there. Not only they, but many of UofC's non-minority faculty and hospital clinicians live in the neighborhood. Speaks volumes about how terrible the neighborhood is, huh?
As far as curriculum goes, PBL vs. traditional didactic lectures is a matter of taste. However, take note that traditional does not equal being held hostage by boring lecturers all day. Lectures are optional, and independent learners (such as myself) can and do feel comfortable with UofC's curriculum. Furthermore, we don't learn for sake of memorization, although there is a fair amount of that, as there will be at any program at any professional school. UofC has not earned the reputation as "teacher of teachers" by educating its students to memorize.
Research is research. There are plenty of oppoutunites at both schools. Personally, I think Northwestern is great. The location is great (yet expensive), and it compares favorably with UofC in many aspects except for one. . .
I go there. 😛
If that doesn't sweeten the pot in UofC's favor, then there's no hope for you in this lifetime.
I probably forgot to address something, but this post was long enough. Sorry.
Neuronix, tell Nooreen I said "Hi."
Go, Maroons!
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Of any two schools in the country, someone should have the least trouble deciding between these two. They offer the same reputation at the same price tag, but have totally different emphasis, curriculum and location.
Research/lecture/Hyde Park for UC vs. Clinical/Problem-based learning/Gold Coast for NU.
Research/lecture/Hyde Park for UC vs. Clinical/Problem-based learning/Gold Coast for NU.
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