UCLA versus UCSF residency programs

[needssomehelp]

trying to decide between these two programs and am open to any comments. ucsf seems to have the better reputation but ucla seems to be more "up and coming" given the recent merger with cedars sinai and the new hospital. plus the call schedule and # of electives seems better at ucla.

anyone have any thoughts to help me compare the programs? they seem pretty similar overall...

thanks in advance!

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[GoSprout24]

I'd love to hear from current residents, or even applicants, as well.

UCSF, for me, has a much better location (I have family and more friends in SF vs LA, plus I like SF a heckuva lot better than LA)... but on my interview day I felt UCLA was far more welcoming. The UCLA PD guy rocks (Dr. Miller) and I almost have this feeling that I'd follow that guy anywhere. I'm not sure how much one person matters -- but you do work with him a lot at Cedars-Sinai, so maybe it would make a little difference?

I'm concerned that UCSF spreads it residents too thin throughtout all the different hospitals they work at - making the call schedule pretty killer and potentially less class unity? I felt that UCLA exposes you to different environments with Mattel and Cedars-Sinai (with a dash of Olive View), but doesn't go overboard. Plus, UCSF only gives you time for 4 electives throughout your three years -- compared to 7 at UCLA.

My main concern with UCLA on my interview day was that I didn't get a chance to interact with many residents. Having no "resident lunch" with dedicated time to chat was a real negative. Plus, I felt there was poor resident attendance at morning and noon conference, a negative in and of itself. Anyone have any comments re: this?

In the end, I really, really, really wanted to like UCSF better... but my gut feeling walking away from both interviews was UCLA > UCSF.

 

[jsauce]

i only visited UCSF, as the folks at UCLA didn't deign to offer me an interview. i feel like i got rejected at several other places that were further down on the totem pole. not sure how that happens, but i digress.

having gotten an invite to a traditional big gun, i really wanted to like UCSF. however, i have to say i really wasn't that impressed. the ucsf healthcare system is MASSIVE and their residents are all over SF. the class is big, but i really didn't feel like they knew each other at all. i went to the dessert night beforehand and there were 3 residents total i think. no interns. the morning conference was well attended, but again, very few interns. the rotation schedule on and off wards seemed exceedingly harsh, particularly when there are over 80 residents in the program.

the social situation was sort of grim. the residents i spoke with seemed to agree that people had their own interests and hung out with those who shared them but never as a real unit. one intern told me she felt "lost" until october. probably not the best program to go to if one is single, even if it is in SF.

finally, the fact that the program director and associate program directory recently moved on to other jobs certainly raised my eyebrow. the new associate director is a graduate of their program and VERY young. that's not to say that he can't do his job, but i think we all know PD is sometimes shoved on junior faculty.

again, i really wanted to like ucsf and have no reason to bull**** other people into not liking it. i think it will still go high on my list simply because of the name it carries and the location, but i am also fairly sure that of the two that come before it, i will get into one of them.

a girl on my tour said it best, "if this program didn't have the name 'ucsf' attached to it, there's no way i would go here."

 

[needssomehelp]

i agree with some of what earlier posters have said....i too don't understand why the call schedule at UCSF is so bad. they do say that it's q6 at the main campus, but then there is this q3 short call that can keep you there pretty late. and the lack of electives sucks...how does one make a solid career decision with 1 or 2 electives in the second year?

dr. miller rocks and he was so nice at our interview day. there was a resident lunch for us and it was well attended. morning report was as well.

can anyone compare the programs? like people who went to UCLA for med school and UCSF for residency or vice versa. did anyone do visiting electives at ucla or ucsf? any of their medical students on these boards? help!

 

[needssomehelp]

since interviews are mostly done, anyone have any more insights?

 

[USeF]

1yr ago I was in the same shoes.. UCSF or UCLA #1- specifically UCSF or UCLA CHAT program. UCLA was solid at #3. Ended up switching these top 2 three times in the last 2 weeks- they were that close for me!

Similarities- multi-site gives you broad training, exposing you to not only different diseases but various STYLES of practicing the beautiful art/science that is pediatrics. Great reputations with amazingly capable faculty in subspecialities and community pediatric advocates. Both had ample internat'l opps

Why UCLA in the end: I, too, like a previous poster, felt I was more a NoCal than a SoCal person (though never lived in either) yet having now spent 7months here, realized that that the 300days/yr of sunshine is a wonderful thing 🙂 LA is a big enough city that anyone can find their niche. Hiking, beach going and all the theatre, cultural things you'd like- all of these I've done this past golden weekend!

As for Lee Miller, believe the hype and experience you had here. He really is a guy dedicated to making this program the best it can be. In fact, I'm in the housestaff lounge writing this and he's still in his office (10pm) with the door open writing e-mails.

Our call schedule really is 'cush'- relatively speaking. The q5 schedule at UCLA (5 mos) is far more humane than q4x10mos. Getting 'short-call' [until 8pm] at county hospital- the place where splinting, suturing, extraction, LP's and IV's are the forte- balances the cerebral and academic ward experience at UCLA.

two months ago, one of my fellow interns and I were watching NFL playoffs and talked about our current satisfaction in life- as an intern- and both of us said 8-9/10. And our schedule only gets far better 2nd and 3rd year.

 

[drbetty]

How would you compare Children's LA to UCLA/Mattel and Stanford to UCSF??

 

[DingleBerry]

How would you compare Children's LA to UCLA/Mattel and Stanford to UCSF??

I can comment on Children's vs UCLA

I think they're both great programs and were both in my top 3. Some obvious differences, CHLA is a stand alone children's hospital whereas UCLA is a children's hospital within a larger hospital. There is a different type of environment in a children's hospital, and you'll just have to get a feel for whether or not you like that during your interviews.

Day to day workload is greater at CHLA, its more learn by doing/seeing than by reading. Both programs have great faculty and didactics. Both are very tertiary, your kids will have multiple medical problems that you'll have to manage and with any admission there are likely to be several services involved. Your population at children's has a greater proportion of underserved, lower socioeconomic status etc... than at UCLA. Lots of onc at children's, not sure about UCLA but I think they have lots of GI? Either place you go you'll come out knowing your s@#%, so pay attention to the residents and PD and whichever group you like better rank higher 🙂

 

[drbetty]

thanks! with this positive feedback, i will certainly consider both programs.

 

[drbetty]

How would you compare Children's LA to UCLA/Mattel and Stanford to UCSF??

any new thoughts?

 

[generic]

CHLA:
Stand-alone hospital, building new facility adjacent to current one. Scheduled to open early 2010. Happy residents, I'd rate their apparent happiness as 8/10 (not like everyone's bubbly and smiling all the time, but if 10 is the greatest possible intern joy, then they're fairly close).
The best thing about this program to me was the program director/administration. The PD and assistant PD's were EXTREMELY attentive to house staff concerns and always seem to be making adjustments and improvements to upgrade the residency. Supposedly next year's call schedule will get lighter (more q5 +/- some night float). Also they're trying to have more NP's shoulder the burden of complex "less educational" patient load, so the residents can learn better.
The next best thing was the apartment complex they own. 2/3-3/4 of the class stays there for about 1/2 the price of comparable places in the surrounding area. Not a new building, but not bad. Also, you can upgrade the apartment and deduct the improvement cost from some of your rent! And utilities are included! Example: $900 for 2-bedroom, maybe 800 sq feet?


UCLA:
VERY VERY VERY happy residents and even interns. Tons of interns came to dessert night social and did not seem overtly stressed or cranky. Their skills at Mario Kart on the Wii show how much free time they have. Seemed to draw residents from a larger geographic area than CHLA (more Texans, East Coast, Midwest med schools on the poster).
Happiness: 9/10.
This residency has 4 clinical sites, which is nice (breadth), but seems like a possible negative as well (lots of driving in traffic-filled LA). I loved the new hospital building, which is a children's within a hospital type. After seeing so many stand-alone ones, I was shocked to walk through the ER and see these 80yo COPD and CHF patients! New call rooms are beautiful. Cafeteria awesome. Conference rooms small but nice. Located in the heart of UCLA med campus and near other UCLA facilities, so you can research with lots of other scientists. Also has tons of great stores and food nearby.

Administration was great here also. Call was mix of q5 and q4.
Plenty of international exposure here, with some concrete relationships being formed. Notably had patients from Japan and are setting up program with Jikei Univ. in Tokyo (interest of mine).
Happy happy people.

 

[nocalinsocal]

I'm going to throw another program into the mix (sorry, as a CHOC resident I couldn't pass up the opportunity).

CHOC:
Stand-alone children's hospital. New tower (will increase total beds to 450ish) will open in 2012. Brand new 84-bed clinic opened this fall, and new state of the art PICU/CVICU opened a year ago. Happy residents (8-9/10?) who support each other and hang out a lot outside of work. Awesome administration - Dr. Korb is incredibly dedicated to the program and very responsive to residents' concerns and suggestions. The program is always changing, for the better. Decent call schedule (q4 for 6.5 mos intern year, including 1 mo of NICU) - new 3rd admitting team at night, permanent overflow team during the day, and having nurses do most of the admissions-pager work has decreased residents' workload tremendously. Focus on teaching at all levels. Centralized facility (1 hospital) but lots of community involvement (continuity clinic in the community, exposure to community resources). Great rapport with general pediatric and subspecialty attendings (not a fellow-driven program, just awesome teaching direct from the experts). Research opportunities. Hospital-owned apartment complex 0.5 mi from hospital: 2 bedroom 760 sq ft apt for $1040, and you get to live near your friends.

We're different from UCLA (and I think CHLA) in that we don't do solid organ transplants or trauma, but we do everything else in a friendly, fun environment. Think about it!