UCLA vs Cedars Sinai?

[NYMd2008]

So i from the east coast and looking to make the move out west and don't know anything about cedars.

Whats the difference b/w UCLA vs Cedars Sinai?

From my understanding cedars is more of a smaller hospital where all the celebs go. not sure i know anything about fellowship placements from cedars (couldnt find it on there website)

But UCLA is top notch and all residents end up getting fantastic fellowship placements.

Am I correct? or is there "more than meets the eye"?

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[jdh71]

So i from the east coast and looking to make the move out west and don't know anything about cedars.

Whats the difference b/w UCLA vs Cedars Sinai?

From my understanding cedars is more of a smaller hospital where all the celebs go. not sure i know anything about fellowship placements from cedars (couldnt find it on there website)

But UCLA is top notch and all residents end up getting fantastic fellowship placements.

Am I correct? or is there "more than meets the eye"?

Cedars is well respected - it's basically community based, but has much the feel of a University program. It's in Beverly Hills and sure is "purdy" (I'd personally be VERY happy training there - VERY).

UCLA is well . . . UCLA. It has the reputation of being malignant, but if you're the gunner type, you might feel ok there.

Of course the fellowship placements are going to be exceptional coming out of UCLA, but, based on the fact that your an east coast guy, getting solid interviews, not only out here in SoCal, but also other great programs (per the interview thread), I would imagine your chances for fellowship match out of Cedars would be pretty comparable with UCLA all things considered.

Why not interview both if invited?

 

[NDESTRUKT]

UCLA vs. Cedars: UCLA is a university program, Cedars is more private hospital even though affiliated with UCLA. The patients may be more hands off. You also don't get the happy chance to rotate through various hospital systems. Cedars is still a good place though. Great cards program although they do not take their own all the time - but that may have changed to the fact that the chair of cards left and is at a different university.

 

[imim03]

UCLA is definitely more "academic" and tougher (or "malignant" for lack of a better word). It is probably one of the top programs in CA in terms of academic reputation. Fellowship matches are what you would expect from a high caliber academic institution. I've heard that the residents there are not universally happy there, but that was a few years ago and was admittedly third hand info (so take it with a grain of salt). The residents rotate through many of the UCLA-affiliated hospitals (like the VA and Olive View), but not through Cedars.

Cedars certainly has a more pleasant environment but is more academic (in terms of ongoing well-known research in cards, gi, endo, etc) than your typical community program. You do rotate through the West LA VA hospital (since it is now integrated into the program) and Olive View (county). But while it is the hospital of the stars, residents really only see the indigent and medicaid patients on the general medicine teaching service (though they care for everyone in the units). Residents don't have problems getting fellowships, though the fellowship locations may not be as universally big name brand. Also, in each of the past 3-4 years, a cedars resident has matched to cedars cards.

 

[DJ LACTULOSE]

i just did an away rotation at cedars. it's a pretty cush program when the residents are at cedars itself. the workload seems more intense when they're at the VA and at olive view. the residents all seem very happy though and seem to go out a lot.

the hospital is about 70% private. you rarely see teams rounding on the wards. in fact, most of the doctors you see there are ones that you won't ever work with since they're private attendings. it took me some time to get used to this since i'm from a major academic center. the ICUs, however, are all run by residents. cedars has a new ICU building where all the ICUs are located.

all in all, it's a great program. the residents are very diverse (lots of indians, persians, asians) and there's a starbucks in the hospital. cedars has a great reputation and matches residents into GI and cardio every year.

i would interview at both UCLA and cedars if given the oppurtunity. they both are great programs.

 

[arrhythmia7]

To give you an idea of the difference in pace between UCLA and CS, when I was an intern, both the UCLA and CS interns would go to the West LA VA. During my ICU month at the VA (which occurred after UCLA ICU that year), I was functioning on autopilot. We actually thought it was funny that they called it an ICU since there were only two (2) intubated patients, and literally 1 code during the entire month. People seemed bewildered by thing as simple as ARDs protocol ventilation or appropriate patient selection for Xigris. The Cedars-Sinai interns (many of whom are my friends, so I'm not talking down) were "overwhelmed" by the VA wards. This may have shifted as CS and VA are now combined, but the intensity of training between UCLA and CS is a magnitude of difference and it is not their fault. My friends acknowledge this - that is why they went to Cedars.
There is no mistaking that Cedars-Sinai is a private hospital in every sense of the word. Sure, many of the attendings there are "clinical professors" at UCLA, but we never see them, and the programs are completely separate for all practical purposes. Also, Cedars has a teaching service (i.e. MediCal service), but the majority of the floor patients are rounded on and managed by private attendings.
Traditionally, the Cedars cardiology fellowship never took CS residents, and always took 1-2 a year from UCLA. Now CS has merged with the West LA VA, and is "encouraged" to take residents from those programs. The fellowship is further diluted by now spending half your time at the VA (with VA attendings) and half at Cedars.
The bottom line is that if you are looking for a relaxing, educational 3 years with average/above-average fellowship prospects or the possibility of joining a lucrative LA medicine practice after graduation, go to Cedars. If you want a rigorous academic experience in a tertiary care hospital with lots of sick patients, transplant medicine, and renowned academic attendings (as well as the fellowship opportunities that go with it), come to UCLA. You will work *alot* harder at UCLA, but we still have more than enough time for fun - this is Los Angeles, after all

 

[internal plan]

Hey arrhythmia7, are you an IM resident at UCLA, or did you just do your intern year there?

If you don't mind, I'd like to ask you a couple of questions about the program. I have spoken to a couple of people who are doing, or who have done their residencies at UCLA and said that the vast majority of their patients are transplant patients and so they don't get a lot of training in "bread and butter" inpatient medicine. Do you have an opinion on this. Also, do you/did you feel like you had a lot of autonomy to make patient care decisions on your own? One other thing, do you feel like the patients at UCLA are receptive to you as a resident or do they mostly like to interact with the attendings?

Thanks much.

 

[LosAngelesMD]

I think there are some misunderstandings about Cedars-Sinai. I know I had some, until I got there.

It's a 900 bed hospital -- 900 beds! -- with the new ICU tower that someone mentioned above. There's no way a residency program can watch that many patients. So, there are many, many private physicians that work there, who have no interaction with the residents.

The teaching service is uninsured or Medi-Cal patients mostly. The teaching faculty is dedicated faculty that round with the residents, attend in clinics, etc. Residents there engage in research, have many publications, and are just as "academic" (whatever that means) as any other university-based hospital. There's journal club, senior grand rounds, etc.

Cedars-Sinai also has a huge transplant program -- the teaching service cares for all liver transplant candidates and post-OLT patients. There is a separate ward team for heme-onc patients who are mostly stem cell transplant patients.

Another large patient population there are patients with HIV/AIDS. They see a lot of PCP, CMV, toxo, and every other opportunistic infection out there.

They see *sick* patients, and they get comfortable managing complex issues. That said, they get a lot of bread and butter medicine (CHF, COPD, chest pain, etc), because it's a community-based hospital.

In my opinion, it's the best of both worlds.

Fellowships are not a problem, if you put the time in to make a name for yourself. LIke anywhere you go -- how much research you do, publications, etc, are going to get you the interviews for fellowships. You're going to be disappointed if you think you can sit around doing nothing for 3 years and match at the #1 Cardiology Fellowship.

Ultimately, it comes down to where are you going to be happy. Interview at both places and see what vibe you get from them. You're going to spent a LOT of time working, so make sure you like the people you're going to be working with! Good luck.