UCLA vs. UCSF

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For what it's worth, here's a link to a post made today on a thread in the mentor forum that supports the idea that school name is not a big factor when applying for residencies. Read post #1 of the thread to see who the poster is (a big-city academic EMP, which may mean that his opinion is different from what we might expect from, say, a dermatologist), then read the last paragraph of post #10 to see his comment on school name. The assumption that seems to underpin his statement is that applicants do differentiate themselves in numerous ways, and that these differences overwhelm the relative clout of the name of their med school.

http://drslounge.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=5025327#post5025327

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Check out this hip hop performance by all MS1s at a recent talent show/fundraiser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix3CUd5EVZs

I love that you posted that :love:

A few things that people seem to be confused about (I'm another UCSF MS1):
1. UCSF is pass/fail. How anyone could be a gunner in a pass/fail environment is beyond me. In fact, from talking to my friends at other schools across the country, UCSF students have a lot more free time and are generally relaxed and happy. I know I'm happy and relaxed, much more so than in undergrad. Not sure where the gunner idea got started but I have never seen any evidence to support it. I get called a gunner (jokingly of course) for going to lectures :)
2. UCSF is a top research institution, but they don't "push" anyone into doing research. Plenty of people (myself included) do no research at all.
3. Prologue is NOT terribly hard, and it's certainly not harder than any subsequent block. Prologue is review from the pre-med prerequisites, and the point is to get everyone on the same page before starting cardio. It gets harder after Prologue when you actually start learning systems-based material.
4. Our class is incredibly diverse and well-balanced. We were definitely not chosen based on numbers alone, and I have several friends who are living proof of this.

Since I don't go to UCLA (or even apply there as an out-of-state student), I don't know anything about it, and so I can't answer any questions about it. I have to wonder how so many people seem to be so well-informed about the inner workings of both schools without actually attending both. All I can tell you is to go with your gut feeling, and trust yourself. I did that, and it brought me to UCSF. My class is incredible, the faculty is warm and accessible, the school is progressive, and I love it here. I couldn't imagine going anywhere else. I'd be happy to answer any questions over PM.

Anyway, good luck to all of you! Congrats on your acceptances :thumbup:
 
UCLA is p/f all four years? Be a BRUIN all the way. Its new medical facilities are kick ass. Weather is better in Socal. You can fall back on the undergrad campus for fun. I have a friend that went to UCSF and didn't care for it so much. UCSF is also having some budget issues, which has convinced some faculty to leave.
 
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UCLA VS UCSF---

Really Hard decision. I'm no closer in deciding.
 
Thanks for all your help everyone. This is certainly a tough decision and having all of this information certainly will allow me to make a well-informed choice.

I was hoping to post a little bit about my background and see if any UCLA and UCSF current students could comment on how you think my learning style/attitudes would fit in or not fit in at your respective school.

MCAT - 10 verbal, 11 physical, 10 bio
GPA - 3.85 science and overall
elite undegrad institution

Overall, I work incredibly hard. In undergrad, I felt like a lot of people were smarter than me, but I managed to get better grades by working harder and utilizing resources that others overlooked (TAs, professor office hours, previous exams, etc.)

A lot of times, I feel like others understand things right away, whereas it takes me much longer to grasp the material. This means that it's often difficult for me to speak in discussion sections. If you tell me what to learn and what I need to know, I will learn it better than anyone (that's why I love course readers and detailed study guides). If you tell me to read a chapter and then test me on the concepts, I will not do as well. For example, I studied more than anyone I know on the MCAT and managed to get good scores, but certainly not great scores.

I guess I'm somewhat scared of being outshined by others and possibly feeling like I don't belong (I know, it's pathetic, but it's a real feeling that I don't want to deny). At UCSF, there will be people with higher numbers and everyone will be brilliant. At UCLA, people will be smart, but not necessarily brilliant, which is why I'm more attracted to it. (Please correct me if this is a false assumption).

Overall, I'm not afraid of working hard. I'm just afraid of working hard and still not being able to keep up with others. Thanks for reading this and I appreciate any insights you may be able to provide.
 
Thanks for all your help everyone. This is certainly a tough decision and having all of this information certainly will allow me to make a well-informed choice.

I was hoping to post a little bit about my background and see if any UCLA and UCSF current students could comment on how you think my learning style/attitudes would fit in or not fit in at your respective school.

MCAT - 10 verbal, 11 physical, 10 bio
GPA - 3.85 science and overall
elite undegrad institution

Overall, I work incredibly hard. In undergrad, I felt like a lot of people were smarter than me, but I managed to get better grades by working harder and utilizing resources that others overlooked (TAs, professor office hours, previous exams, etc.)

A lot of times, I feel like others understand things right away, whereas it takes me much longer to grasp the material. This means that it's often difficult for me to speak in discussion sections. If you tell me what to learn and what I need to know, I will learn it better than anyone (that's why I love course readers and detailed study guides). If you tell me to read a chapter and then test me on the concepts, I will not do as well. For example, I studied more than anyone I know on the MCAT and managed to get good scores, but certainly not great scores.

I guess I'm somewhat scared of being outshined by others and possibly feeling like I don't belong (I know, it's pathetic, but it's a real feeling that I don't want to deny). At UCSF, there will be people with higher numbers and everyone will be brilliant. At UCLA, people will be smart, but not necessarily brilliant, which is why I'm more attracted to it. (Please correct me if this is a false assumption).

Overall, I'm not afraid of working hard. I'm just afraid of working hard and still not being able to keep up with others. Thanks for reading this and I appreciate any insights you may be able to provide.

Hey ryanpahler,

I can kind of relate to you (similar stats, similar work ethic). I haven't had a problem at all! One of the nice things about UCLA is that there are only 2 hours of lecture per day, so there is plenty of time to study on your own and drill in the concepts. It takes me a good amount time to learn the lecture material, but I still have plenty of free time. Right now I'm studying for boards. UCLA gives a TON of time off to study for boards, which is good for slower studiers like me! ;) You can PM me if you have other questions!
 
At UCSF, there will be people with higher numbers and everyone will be brilliant. At UCLA, people will be smart, but not necessarily brilliant, which is why I'm more attracted to it. (Please correct me if this is a false assumption).

According to USNews--UCLA and UCSF have the same average MCAT scores and almost identical GPAs. Pretty sure you will find brilliant people in both places. I agree with others on this thread. The schools are both amazing and too close to call. Just a matter of preference. I wonder if rankings will change when the Reagan hospital opens.
 
According to USNews--UCLA and UCSF have the same average MCAT scores and almost identical GPAs. Pretty sure you will find brilliant people in both places. I agree with others on this thread. The schools are both amazing and too close to call. Just a matter of preference. I wonder if rankings will change when the Reagan hospital opens.

I can honestly say that both schools are a hit. Both offer completely different environments to learn in but the information and support will be the same. There will be brilliant people in both places and there will be a diverse class at both schools. I think the decision becomes extremely easy and personal when you ignore the US News rankings and go with your gut. I know many of the faculty at UCLA personally and they are extremely proud of their Westwood campus. Similarly, I am sure there are many faculty at UCSF that would die for their school as well. Who do you want to join is all up to you?

I am in the same boat and one of the important things for me is the associated undergraduate campus at UCLA. More young events, more gym opportunities, more b-ball and football games, more opportunities to mentor pre-med students who need guidance, etc.

I have lived and worked in LA since November and can say that LA is also a very fun city. There are plenty of opportunities to have fun in almost every walk of life. While the outdoors and nature seem somewhat non-existant, the desert and mountains are a short drive away. However, I will admit that SF's splendor and beauty are somewhat enticing. Golden Gate park is amazing and right next to the campus.

These are some of my thoughts . . .
 
UCLA's undergraduate and athletic teams are attractive if you did not have a great experience in undergrad. But I will always contend that if you went to a school with a strong athletic dept in your undergrad, you will always be loyal to that team and won't necessarily need the UCLA Bruins to root for.

I grew up and went to college in LA. After spending four years in NorCal for medical school, I can definitely say that there are more things to do here in Northern California. Everything you can do in SoCal, you can do in NorCal without the same superficial attitude you'll find in LA. Also, less traffic is a plus. It really does come down to personal preference I suppose.

As for mentoring pre-med students, we have active pre-med mentoring relationships with UC Berkeley as well as high schools in the area.

I think that curricula between UCLA and UCSF are relatively similar and that you'll not be disappointed by either. During my first two years, I had ample time to study and have fun. Lecture averaged 2 hrs per day and 2 hrs of small group per day. Twice a week, we had clinical activities in the PM. Average of 24 hrs of class/small group/clinical time every week. Not too shabby.

Again P/F for all four years can be hit or miss. Pro is that you will not be expected to "stand out" and "Excel" during your clinical years. However, that means that much more probably rides on your USMLE Step 1 performance. At UCSF, you are given a chance to distinguish yourself during your clinical years.

I think someone said that UCLA has stronger cardiology, ER and neurology programs. I think this is a matter of debate. UCSF has an extremely active cardiology program- really top names in the field. UCSF has just created the department of emergency medicine. Before, SFGH, which is a UCSF affiliate hospital, was a main residency training site for Stanford ED residents and Highland residents. UCSF is about to start our own ED residency and those key faculty from SFGH already have appointments at UCSF. UCSF Neurology is really top of its class. The chairman is one of the co-editors of Harrison's, Dr. Stephen Hauser. All of the residents are top notch. Dr. Lowenstein, world expert in epilepsy, is one of the key faculty members and is very involved in medical student education from the first year of medical school.

Don't put too much stock in limited class time-- after all, you're paying tuition for a reason! :)

One thing that I will say is that UCSF does not give as much time to study for boards as some other places. Between the end of MS2 and MS3, there is only 4 weeks. I used 3 of these to study-- I felt it was plenty of time, but I know many people who feel that they need more. Still, UCSF students do plenty well on the boards and our match list suggests that we are not hindered by the relative lack of board prep time.
 
UCLA has stronger ED training, if you include Harbor-UCLA into their system.

UCSF's cardiology fellowship program is slightly more highly regarded than UCLA's. Both are top notch though.

UCLA's undergraduate and athletic teams are attractive if you did not have a great experience in undergrad. But I will always contend that if you went to a school with a strong athletic dept in your undergrad, you will always be loyal to that team and won't necessarily need the UCLA Bruins to root for.

I grew up and went to college in LA. After spending four years in NorCal for medical school, I can definitely say that there are more things to do here in Northern California. Everything you can do in SoCal, you can do in NorCal without the same superficial attitude you'll find in LA. Also, less traffic is a plus. It really does come down to personal preference I suppose.

As for mentoring pre-med students, we have active pre-med mentoring relationships with UC Berkeley as well as high schools in the area.

I think that curricula between UCLA and UCSF are relatively similar and that you'll not be disappointed by either. During my first two years, I had ample time to study and have fun. Lecture averaged 2 hrs per day and 2 hrs of small group per day. Twice a week, we had clinical activities in the PM. Average of 24 hrs of class/small group/clinical time every week. Not too shabby.

Again P/F for all four years can be hit or miss. Pro is that you will not be expected to "stand out" and "Excel" during your clinical years. However, that means that much more probably rides on your USMLE Step 1 performance. At UCSF, you are given a chance to distinguish yourself during your clinical years.

I think someone said that UCLA has stronger cardiology, ER and neurology programs. I think this is a matter of debate. UCSF has an extremely active cardiology program- really top names in the field. UCSF has just created the department of emergency medicine. Before, SFGH, which is a UCSF affiliate hospital, was a main residency training site for Stanford ED residents and Highland residents. UCSF is about to start our own ED residency and those key faculty from SFGH already have appointments at UCSF. UCSF Neurology is really top of its class. The chairman is one of the co-editors of Harrison's, Dr. Stephen Hauser. All of the residents are top notch. Dr. Lowenstein, world expert in epilepsy, is one of the key faculty members and is very involved in medical student education from the first year of medical school.

Don't put too much stock in limited class time-- after all, you're paying tuition for a reason! :)

One thing that I will say is that UCSF does not give as much time to study for boards as some other places. Between the end of MS2 and MS3, there is only 4 weeks. I used 3 of these to study-- I felt it was plenty of time, but I know many people who feel that they need more. Still, UCSF students do plenty well on the boards and our match list suggests that we are not hindered by the relative lack of board prep time.
 
UCLA has stronger ED training, if you include Harbor-UCLA into their system.

UCSF's cardiology fellowship program is slightly more highly regarded than UCLA's. Both are top notch though.

Highland > Harbor

The edge in ED training goes to UCSF. Both are great hospitals, though.
 
For ED? Harbor's considered one of the best programs in the country. Highland's a great program, but it doesn't have the same national rep. Ask people who've applied.

But for argument's sake let's say Harbor = Highland. Still, the UCLA system wins with Olive View being stronger than the other UCSF affiliates for ED.

Highland > Harbor

The edge in ED training goes to UCSF. Both are great hospitals, though.
 
You can rock the boards cuz LA gives you 8 weeks off to study for it. LA also has a 2 week block of review so in essence 10 weeks total for boards. I'm like you I have to put more effort into these standardized test then most to do about the same. Rock step 1 you must.

In LA you can get 80 degree weather in the middle of winter. That means hit the surf w/o wetsuit during the day and then drive 2 hours to hit the snowboard park for a night session. How cool is that. Boarders unite.:horns:

Did I mention LA has the hottest hotties. I do admit the derm residents at ucsf are hella hot though.
 
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28. UCLA*/(UCLA/Drew)__________
First year Student Budget: In State: $47,492, Out of State: $59,737 (but consider that you are a CA resident so you will not have those travel expenses and you have the option of living at home Score: 2.5 (only b/c you are a CA resident
Financial Aid/etc…: Both need based and merit based scholarships are offered (however mostly need based). Several loans available (funded by the state of Ca…well the state funds the university…besides the private/alumni donations that are given). % of students enrolled receiving financial aid: 87%, Average amount per scholarship/grant: $11,459, Average 2005 graduate Indebtedness: $97,341 (nice) Score: 5.75 (b/c the indebtedness is low mainly b/c most of students are in-state residents)
Curriculum/etc…: Quarter based…so things move fast…Integration of basic and clinical sciences that is enhanced through small group PBL. A holistic approach to patient care is emphasized very early through an innovative and nationally recognized “Doctoring” course. Specifically the curriculum is organized into 3 phases. Phase one covers the first two years (entitled “Human Biology and Disease”)…is the basic science phase of the curriculum….material is presented using an organ-based structure. Contact time is limited to 24 hours (lecture time is approx. 10 hrs. per week) per week to allow for independent studies and electives (like medical Spanish…niiiiiiiiiiiice!). Instruction is driven by cases explored in small group, laboratories, conferences, clinical skills workshops. Patient contact begins during this phase. Phase two consists of clerkships: The third year begins with a two-week course, Clinical Foundations, focused on the basics of clinical care, including a review of the physical examination, BCLS, basic radiology, write-ups and presentations, with an emphasis on professionalism and ethical standards. This period is followed by 48 weeks of the core clerkships: Inpatient Medicine (8 weeks), Surgery/Anesthesiology/Opthalmology (12 weeks)\, OB/GYN (6 weeks), Pediatrics (6 weeks), Ambulatory Medicine (Combined didactics with clinical experience in Family Medicine [4 weeks] and Internal Medicine [4 weeks]…so a total of 8 weeks), Neuro/Psychiatry (Combined didactics with 4.5 weeks of clinical experience in psychiatry and 2.5 weeks in Neurology). There are 3 longitudinal courses that continue throughout the year: 1. Radiology - Core topics in radiology are included in the didactic sessions for each of the clerkships and include an emphasis on the use of imaging as diagnostic and treatment modalities; 2. Doctoring 3 – Small groups of students meet twice a month to develop skills in communication and to reinforce standards of professionalism and humanistic approaches to patient-centered care; 3. Longitudinal Preceptorship – Students spend two afternoons a month with a community-based outpatient preceptor to improve skills in clinical assessment and explore possible career choices. Phase 2 ends with a required Clinical Performance Examination (CPX) in which students receive feedback on their history taking, physical examination, patient/physician interaction, and information sharing skills. During Phase 3 faculty and students who are interested in common career activities are grouped into academic colleges during year four. This organizations is meant to strengthen career advising, improve quality and selection of electives, provide a means of honing clinical skills, and stimulate discussion of new findings in the basic, social, and clinical sciences relevant to the future practice of medicine. College activities include an introductory course focused on advanced clinical skills and decision making, a monthly series of evening seminars, a longitudinal academic activity that can be either teaching or scholarship, and regular advisory meetings. There are six colleges: 1. Acute Care, 2. Applied Anatomy, 3. Primary Care, 4. Medical Science, 5. MBA/MPH, and 6. Drew Urban Underserved (this last college is for students who are part of the UCLA/Drew Program). Grading Scale: 2 intervals (Pass/Fail or equivalent) for all four years with letters of distinction for outstanding work. There are many opportunities to do away rotations both at specified international rotations and other national locations. There are a few student aids to learning (but no mention of any simulation labs, etc…this does not mean that they do not exist on this campus)…one of the electives the school offers is Medical Spanish (this is a must in Los Angeles)
Score: 13.5
#Affiliated Hospitals/Facilities: 7 and a myriad supporting facilities/clinics (UCLA Med Center has been recognized as one of the top hospitals in the country) Score: 7.5
Selection Factors: Rolling, Public, for some reason does not give any specific state preference “at least on paper”…but we all know that the sheer number of qualified Cali residents causes them to admit a much greater number of residents than non-residents (in my favor…so I have no problems with that), heavy screening of applications (which can be a good and bad thing…this school is heavily focused on numbers…so if you do not meet the numbers cutoff your file will be sent to another committee that considers other aspects of your application). Overall Median GPA: 3.78, Median Science GPA: 3.76, Median MCAT: 32Q (Ranges: V: 5 – 15, P: 6 – 15, B: 6 – 15, writing: L – T). I hear that the average age is pretty young; 7056 applications for 717 interview slots…here are some stats from 2004: 5,418 applicants…2,358 received a secondary, 2063 completed the secondary, 758 invited for interview, 726 interviewed, 245 accepted, 121 matriculated Score: 5.5 (only because of my Ca. residence)
Diversity: 28% URM (but we all know that this includes Drew which is like 90% URM), 80% Minority (awesome…but this includes all programs affiliated…like Drew/UCLA, and UCR/UCLA Score: 15++++++++++++ (this for UCLA and all of its programs….but not UCLA alone)
Dual Degree Programs: MD/MBA, MD/MPH, MD/Oral Surgery Residency Programs, MD/Short Term Training Program, MD/PhD
Score: 7++++++++++++
Student Support: Large biomedical library (kind of antiquated though)…students have access to the Charles Drew Biomed. library as well, strong SNMA (includes the Drew program students as well), office of multicultural affairs is existent, several student organizations, career counseling, tutorial assistance; the school provides a Master Study Program (MSP provides first year students with an opportunity to explore a variety of learning methods necessary for success in our curriculum by participating in small group study sessions led by second year medical students who have excelled in the subject area. Students are able to enhance their understanding of course content in a stress free learning environment by participating in one or all of the MSP groups offered.), other academic services offered as well
Score: 5
Housing: On campus graduate housing available for the first two years, off campus affiliated housing, non-affiliated off campus housing all over westwood….plus I LIVE FAIRLY CLOSE TO BOTH CAMPUSES (UCLA main and the Drew Univ. Campus)…being able to live at home and save some dough is quite nice! Score: 6 (it would be lower b/c of expensive housing, but I live close to campus)
Location: Los Angeles…the best place to be…I must a very diverse patient population….and you better know some Spanish…I love LA…GRRRRREAT WEATHER, can go skiing and to the beach all in the same day…yes that is nice
Score: 5+++++++
Class Size: 170 (Includes UCLA Drew and UCR too)….so approx 24% of interviewees matriculate…so much more are accepted Score: 4.25
Residency Match List: 38% of past graduates have entered primary care residency programs, 62% enter the specialized programs
Volunteer/Research Opportunities: This school is HEAVILY involved in community outreach: ranging from community health education to providing clinical access to inner city communities; 80% of students participate in community service, The Center of Excellence (COE: Research and Educational Resources in Minority health) plays an integral part in the urban communities. In addition to organized school wide funded community outreach programs, many individual student volunteer organizations organize community events. Research: This school is a HUGE research school. Several summer research fellowships are available to students (both minority student fellowships and general student body research fellowships; short term research opportunities are also available. Over 75% of students participate in research; several research facilities (including core); Total NIH funding: $285,852,720 (rank 8th), Total NIH supported research funding: $268,345,066 Score: 11++++++++++
Miscellaneous: I would not mind going to UCLA. I am weary of King/Drew Hospital…they closed)…I am thinking that I would love to be home…or close to family…this school is nice, pretty good website, videos available for viewing. Notes about the Drew Program: this program is geared towards students who have a dedicated interest in serving in an underserved community (well at least they mention that interest)…this program makes four total medical schools where URM’s are the majority. So technically Drew University is just under the wing as UCLA/Drew. The program is cool but the hospital where most of the clerkships are completed is HORRIBLE. King/Drew hospital has had all kinds of problems that have been heavily publicized. It did have a Level 1 trauma center but that was closed due to funding and due to “shiesty” practices…supposedly much of the staff (not including the docs) were improperly trained. See Drew for more information Score: 3
Total Score: NO FULL SCORE ASSIGNED UNTIL ALL SCHOOLS COMPLETED…HELPS PREVENT ANY POSSIBLE INLETS FOR BIAS
 
32. UCSF__________
First Year Student Budget: In State: $43,888, Out of State: $56,133 (numbers are based on living in on-campus apartments)
Score: 3
Financial Aid/etc…: Of course all of the state supported grants/aid, low interest university loans (5%), of course other state supported loans available, scholarships for disadvantaged students (SDS), need-based professional school scholarships, merit scholarships known as Regents Scholarships. % of enrolled students receiving financial aid: 89%, Average Amount per Scholarship/Grant: $6,395, Average 2005 graduate indebtedness: $70,725 (niiiiice…but I am mad that they offer work-study as a supporting source of funding) Score: 6++++++
Curriculum/etc…:Quarter system…so moves very fast like at all the other UC campuses…Case-based, intergrated (an integration of core instruction in the basic, behavioral, social, and clinical sciences) block courses in the first two years…problem-based learning heavily emphasized in all essential core blocks. The curriculum can be broken down into two major portions: 1. Essential Core and 2. Clinical Core. Essential Core: The Essential Core, the first two years, consists of nine interdisciplinary block courses organized around central themes or systems. Heavy emphasis on active learning (PBL, case-based learning, etc…), total number of lecture hours is limited to 20 hours/ week. Portion of the curriculum highlights the promotion of knowledge, skills, and attitudes appropriate to 21st century medicine…cultivates interdisciplinary links between the basic, clinical, and social sciences. Begin with an introduction to the foundations of medicine (individual basic sciences)…this part of the essential core is known as the “Prologue”… which leads into an organ based focus (still with integration of behavioral and social sciences)…niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice…here is where PBL and case-based learning are at its greatest. Other specific first year courses: “Metabolism and Nutrition”; “Brain, Mind & Behavior”; Second Year: The three I’s (I-3: Infection, Immunity, and Inflammation), Cancer, Life Cycle, and Integration and Consolidation (sort of a review of all of what was covered over the first two years…is the final class in the Essential component of the curriculum…helps to prepare for Step 1 of USMLE. First and second year curriculum (the Essential Core) is complemented by early patient contact through the “Foundations of Patient Care” and “Clinical Interlude courses”. The FPC covers clinical skills, professional development, and physical examination. Students work in small groups to learn interviewing and physical exam technique, and to explore patient-physician interaction, the social and cultural impact of medicine, and team approaches to health care. The Clinical Interlude is just a week-long immersion in the hospital setting that provides students with their first in-patient experience (most students get most of their early patient interaction in the office or community clinic settings). Clinical Core: 54 weeks long, have six 8-week long clerkships in anesthesia and surgery, family practice and outpatient medicine (including surgical specialties), internal medicine, pediatrics, neurology and psychiatry, and OB/GYN. A six month clinical module entitled the “Longitudinal Clinical Experience” complements the clerkships – students meet for ½ a day each week…students exposed to outpatient clinical setting in a discipline of their choice. There are three, one-week long intersessions between core clinical rotations…Intersessions enable students to meet and exchange thoughts about their recent clinical experiences, further refine critical thinking skills, and explore more fully medical ethics, health systems, medical sciences, and evidenced-based medicine. Fourth year consists of “Advanced Studies”…it encompasses elective rotations, research, and specific fields of inquiry that make up the fourth year of the medical program…prepares students for post-graduate work…flexible schedule. Students may select an Area of Concentration in order to develop expertise in a field that informs the kind of physicians they would like to be and to join communities of common interest (other than specialty). Areas include health policy, community medicine, humanities, international and public health, and medical education. Student Aids to learning: Clinical Skills Center – simulation labs, live patient acting, videotaping. Clinical Practice Exam – conducted within center…is meant to test clinical skills of students, iRocket: digital curriculum meant to enhance student learning, “Professionalism and Doctoring” course…Option obtain recognition for thesis work with MD degree…Several opportunities to study abroad ALL OVER THE WORLD (niiiiiiiiiiice…many options). Grading Intervals: Required and Electives Basic Sciences: 2 intervals (Pass/Fail), Required and Elective Clinical Clerkships: 3 intervals (Honors/Pass/Fail or equivalent). Other unique curricular components: Medical Spanish & Clinical Skills at UCSF Fresno (that’s awesome), “Model Fresno Program” – program that allows 3rd year students to gain primary care clinical experience in Fresno (a very diverse region of the Central Valley), “Multicultural LEARN Program” , “Area of Concentration (AoC) Program” – Like obtaining a minor in undergrad…there are currently seven AoC’s (see website) Score: 14 (would be 15 but curriculum is totally based on PBL…and normally the highest I score any school that is completely PBL is 13…but this school has a significant number of curricular components that are outstanding)
#Affiliated Hospitals/Facilities: 18 Score: 9+++++++++++++++
Selection Factors: Public, rolling admissions, high state preference (83% in-state), heavy screening of applications (which can be a good and bad thing…all UC’s are big on numbers more so than many other schools… so if you do not meet the numbers cutoff your file will be sent to another committee that considers other aspects of your application. Avg. Overall GPA: 3.79, Avg. Science GPA: 3.79, Median Overall GPA: 3.82, Median Science GPA: 3.83, Avg. MCAT: 33.8 (V: 10.6, P: 11.5, B: 11.7), Median MCAT: 34Q (Ranges: V: 6 – 15, P: 7 – 15, B: 8 – 15, writing: L – T). 5298 applications received (completed), 1515 applicants passed the primary screening and received the secondary, 538 applicants interviewed Score: 3.5
Diversity: 18% URM, 59% minority Score: 15
Dual Degree Options: MD/MPH, MD/PhD, MD/MS Score: 4.75
Student Support: There is amazing support at this school. Strong SNMA that organizes a number of events in the Bay area., several student interest/activities groups, “Dean’s Task Force on Diversity” - support and enhance our missions through comprehensive sustainable strategies to promote a diverse community and to reduce institutional and policy level barriers to underrepresented minorities’ participation in medical training (that’s cool…and very surprising seeing as how the UC’s have avoided the issue of URM’s for a very long time…their focus has always been on socioeconomic disparities…which is still awesome), Minority Mentorship Program - Program hosts six evening dinners for UCSF minority faculty, residents, medical students, and post baccalaureate students to meet one another, listen to special speakers and panelists, and discuss concerns affecting underrepresented minority physicians and students. The Program emphasizes the importance of establishing mentor relationships between the faculty and students (great!!!!), several other minority support groups/organizations, large biomedical library, supporting digital library. School uses a system called the “Advisory College Program” – consists of four advisory groups (Advisory Colleges)… 1. Hughes-Mack, 2. Miller-Diab College, 3. Murr-Navaro College, 4. Jain-Stein College…purpose of these colleges is to provide mentoring and personalized academic advising, facilitate student communication among peers and faculty, guide students through an array of educational resources, timelines, clinical care settings and prospective career options. You stay with whatever college under which you matriculate for the full four years (niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice….just like undergrad for me…go OWLS hahahahahaha), Career Advisor program…also professionalism is heavily emphasized here…several classes and seminars on it…pretty cool…check out this website: http://www.medschool.ucsf.edu/professional_development/professionalism/index.aspx. , counseling, tutoring services, “On Doctoring” discussion groups, “Partners in Medicine” program, “D-Stress Sounds” meetings during OB/GYN and Medicine clerkships...the works, and of course there are the several student learning aids: iRocket online curriculum, Clinical Skills Center, clinical skills practice practice exam Score: 7++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Housing: a large selection of on-campus, off-campus affiliated, and off campus housing available…predictably very expensive to live off campus…but great options Score: 4.5
Location: San Francisco…I have tons of family here, beautiful location, awesome weather (even better than LA…except during the winter)…In the evening the fog rolls in from the Pacific into the bay and blankets the area with fog…really cool site. Unique culture in this area, very diverse…good for gaining a diverse clinical experience, a few hours from Tahoe, 45 min plan ride from home, close to Big Sur coastline (a specific section of PCH), what more could I ask for Score: 6++++++++++++++
Class Size: 141 (153 according to MSAR)…so 26% of interviewees enrolled (if use figures from school website)…matriculation rate probably not much lower than the acceptance rate. Score: 4
Residency Match List: 34% of students entered primary care residency programs this past July (2006), 61% entered non-primary care residency programs.
Volunteer/Research Opportunities: This school is heavily involved in community outreach and has several partnerships with community organizations….e.g. Community Partnerships Program, Student-run clinics, etc…There are also outreach programs for elementary, middle-school, and high school students. Other outreach opportunities: Center for Health and Community (this also fits under the “Research category”), Center on Social Disparities and Health, Community Partnership Resource Center (CPRC) – Facilitates partnership activities between UCSF and local communities with the overall goal of improving health status and decreasing health
disparities within San Francisco: currently targeting the southeast sector of San Francisco. The CPRC can help connect interestedstudents with community-based organizations and with UCSF faculty & staff who are working in these communities… UCSF Children’s Hut. Students are said to be greatly involved in the community. Research: Students have ample opportunities to get involved in research…I mean…this school is known as a prominent research medical school. Student Opportunities: Summer Fellowships, Quarterly Fellowships, Year-Long Fellowships, Genentech Foundation Research Fellowship (offers short-term research fellowships of $3750, also offers $22,500 for long-term research fellowships), MD w/ Thesis program, AoC research opportunities…Students can also obtain a Certificate Program in Biomedical Research (CPBR)… Approximately 30% of the students in each class use the summer following the first year to do a two-month project.Some of these research projects are very successful and become the basis for a thesis in the M.D. with Thesis Program. There are several research centers that focus on individual and interdisciplinary research: The Latino Center for Medical Education and Research (LaCMER), Medical Effectiveness Research Center for Diverse Populations (MERC), Multicultural LEARN Program (Linking Education, Action, and Research Networks)…There are several research facilities and centers/institutes on this campus…The one’s that particularly stand out are: AIDS Research Institute, Comprehensive Cancer Center, Institute for Regeneration Medicine…i.e. Stem Cell Research Center (absolutely amazing...hands down awesome)…California has decided to independently give financial support for embryonic stem cell research…a step that I am happy the state has made (gooooooooooooooo California). Here’s the website: http://stemcellfacts.ucsf.edu/
Score: 11+++++++++++++++++++
Miscellaneous: Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat website…very informative and easy to follow…the best of all the UC schools…I just wish this school did not emphasize PBL so much. They take a good number of non-traditional students…Average Age: 24.1 (Age Range: 21 – 38) Great video production, amazing school. The only thing that I do not like is the fact that the curriculum is completely PBL, Pilot Prime-US program focusing on preparing students to work in underserved communities. Decent fitness center. I really like this school. If I had to choose a school with a curriculum predicated entirely on PBL this would be it. Score: 3

Total Score: NO FULL SCORE ASSIGNED UNTIL ALL SCHOOLS COMPLETED…HELPS PREVENT ANY POSSIBLE INLETS FOR BIAS
 
For ED? Harbor's considered one of the best programs in the country. Highland's a great program, but it doesn't have the same national rep. Ask people who've applied.

But for argument's sake let's say Harbor = Highland. Still, the UCLA system wins with Olive View being stronger than the other UCSF affiliates for ED.

Alright, I'll give you Olive View. For now. But SF General is supposed to be starting up an EM residency within the next couple of years. I think SFGH + Highland would be tough to beat.
 
it takes many years to work out the kinks in a residency program. also, just because a hospital and/or its other residency programs are strong, does not equate automatically to a strong ED program. Case in point, Johns Hopkins Hospital is considered the best hospital in the world, and Hopkins has one of the best Internal Medicine programs in the country. It's ED program, however, is nowhere near that caliber.

Alright, I'll give you Olive View. For now. But SF General is supposed to be starting up an EM residency within the next couple of years. I think SFGH + Highland would be tough to beat.
 
it takes many years to work out the kinks in a residency program. also, just because a hospital and/or its other residency programs are strong, does not equate automatically to a strong ED program. Case in point, Johns Hopkins Hospital is considered the best hospital in the world, and Hopkins has one of the best Internal Medicine programs in the country. It's ED program, however, is nowhere near that caliber.

I agree with you there. I doubt the new UCSF-SFGH program will instantly become the best in the country. Luckily, they've already had an EM residency program at SFGH for years. They're just changing their affiliation from Stanford to UCSF.
 
Hah. This will approach a random walk given enough time.

Go with your gut. You're obviously a smart kid. You'll make a good choice. This isn't like the difference between Harvard and the glorious medical institution known as Stewart University.
 
You can rock the boards cuz LA gives you 8 weeks off to study for it. LA also has a 2 week block of review so in essence 10 weeks total for boards. I'm like you I have to put more effort into these standardized test then most to do about the same. Rock step 1 you must.

In LA you can get 80 degree weather in the middle of winter. That means hit the surf w/o wetsuit during the day and then drive 2 hours to hit the snowboard park for a night session. How cool is that. Boarders unite.:horns:

Did I mention LA has the hottest hotties. I do admit the derm residents at ucsf are hella hot though.
LA girls are hot, but NYC has the most beautiful girls .
 
yeah but there are also a bunch of butt unglies in NYC too. Some of those women are down right scary:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
yeah but there are also a bunch of butt unglies in NYC too. Some of those women are down right scary:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
true, but also the most beautiful girls from around the world. When you see people who look like models you know what...they probably are. Also you can't tell me that there aren't scary girls in LA too. I saw my fair share when I was visiting my brother over spring break. sorry to derail this thread.
 
The sushi restaurants within walking distance from UCSF are FAR superior to those in and around Westwood.

And even if you don't like sushi, you should go to UCSF over UCLA. :rolleyes:
 
I doubt that. Have you been to Sawtelle, which is near UCLA? Granted, it's not walking distance but who walks in LA. It's a huge Japanese district. Some of the best sushi restaurants in LA are there (e.g. Sushi Sasabune, etc.)

The sushi restaurants within walking distance from UCSF are FAR superior to those in and around Westwood.

And even if you don't like sushi, you should go to UCSF over UCLA. :rolleyes:
 
The sushi restaurants within walking distance from UCSF are FAR superior to those in and around Westwood

I guess someone's standard of excellence is well below avg for making such a sushi comment :laugh: . Watch for the water that comes out subtlely from your 2+ day old squid next time you eat around there. Where are the sushi police????
 
true, but also the most beautiful girls from around the world. When you see people who look like models you know what...they probably are. Also you can't tell me that there aren't scary girls in LA too. I saw my fair share when I was visiting my brother over spring break. sorry to derail this thread.

Yeah I admit NYC has some hotties and that while walking down the streets my neck hurts from having my head turned around so much. Also when my head is turned looking at one hottie I might miss the other hotties coming towards me. Only thing is that those model types in NYC are kind of thin for my taste, I prefer the porn star and surfer girl look of the girls of Southern Cal. Also in So Cal the weather stays warm year round so they show more skin year round and ya know that's my thing looking at skin.:D
 
I'm probably a little biased (since UCSF is my top choice for the upcoming application cycle) but I like Northern California and San Francisco so much better than SoCal.
 
Yeah I admit NYC has some hotties and that while walking down the streets my neck hurts from having my head turned around so much. Also when my head is turned looking at one hottie I might miss the other hotties coming towards me. Only thing is that those model types in NYC are kind of thin for my taste, I prefer the porn star and surfer girl look of the girls of Southern Cal. Also in So Cal the weather stays warm year round so they show more skin year round and ya know that's my thing looking at skin.:D
I understand it's a matter of taste. But even in the winter the ladies are still walking down the street. In So Cal too many in cars. Very different dynamic ;-)
 
After visiting LA (the city), I realized that I am really more happy in NorCal. So, I have decided to attend UCSF. But UCLA is still an amazing school :)
 
DEFINITELY UCSF

if i were in your shoes, i would DEFINITELY choose UCSF. it's an amazing school! there's a reason why it's one of the BEST med schools in the country...
 
DEFINITELY UCSF

if i were in your shoes, i would DEFINITELY choose UCSF. it's an amazing school! there's a reason why it's one of the BEST med schools in the country...

Ummm, all of those things can be said of UCLA, too.
 
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