Ucsd

[Ergo]

Can anyone share their recent experiences or knowledge of the UCSD surgery program? It has a past reputation for being brutal, malignant, and perhaps unstable.
How has the program evolved since the 80 hr rule was implemented?
Has there been a shift in culture in recent years? How do their grads fare in the fellowship match?

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[Ergo]

Please comment on this program if possible. Thank you.

 

[Myostatin]

Well, I'm a 3rd year at UCSD so I can't speak for the resident's experiences, but from what I've seen on my rotations, brutal and malignant are good descriptors for Gen Surg here. UCSD does a good job of convincing 3rd year students to not go into general surgery. I don't think the program is unstable, though. No clue about fellowship match statistics.

 

[GITM]

I did a rotation here.

I watched interns being brutally worked q3, and a large percentage of residents overall in the hospital are in general MISERABLE- even residents at LA county seem happier.

This makes no sense given that UCSD is in a beautiful city with an awesome lifestyle. It's like the faculty want them to be miserable or something- everything from the bio undergrad world, to the med school, to the residencies.

Never heard of instability in the programs at UCSD.

 

[Ergo]

wow!

 

[avgjoe]

wow!

wow is right!! 😳
So does this translate to getting in easier then because nobody else wants to go there? Or does the city being so nice = competitive residency even if the program itself sucks?

 

[Dire Straits]

wow is right!! 😳
So does this translate to getting in easier then because nobody else wants to go there? Or does the city being so nice = competitive residency even if the program itself sucks?

do you actually think a program with a good name will get less competitive just because it has a malignant atmosphere? don't forget these are future surgeons we're talking about. some of them would take q2 physical beatings if it meant they could do their residency at a place that will look nice on their resume and advance their careers. i wish i were joking. 😀

 

[Celiac Plexus]

there are beaches full of beautiful babes in san diego... not that any of us would ever pick a residency for such a shallow reason...

 

[Docgeorge]

there are beaches full of beautiful babes in san diego... not that any of us would ever pick a residency for such a shallow reason...

And those babes are of a level of hottness that is hard to beat!

 

[RedBlanket]

Gorgeous area, but expensive. Have to say I didn't fall in love with it when I interviewed there, although there trauma group seemed great. Be forewarned, one of the people who co-ordinates interviews told me staight up that the interview largely based on two criteria:
1) Step I > 230
2) Their A,B,C,F grading system of the surgery department at your med school.

This person said they generally offer interviews to people who meet criteria 1 and come from a "A" or "B" school. They then fill in the rest of their interview slots as needed. It's a decent program, but they probably couldn't get away with this if they were in Kansas/Mississippi/etc.

 

[navysurgeon]

UCSD is a rough and tumble place to train for one reason: the chairman of the department...Moosa is a difficult person, treats women poorly, and is tough to work for. There are plenty of places where one can get great training, and avoid pathologic personalities...

 

[Rony]

I agree with navysurgeon. On the interview trail last year, I met several applicants who went to school at UCSD and virtually all of them stated their desire to leave and actually mentioned the UCSD faculty realized this and understood their reasons and offered their support ("we know you want to leave so look at these places...etc.")...I've heard it is malignant and instrument throwers aren't hard to come across in their program...if you want a university program in Southern California look at UCLA, Loma Linda, UCI for a less toxic environment...

 

[ILuvScut]

Please folks. Lets not kid ourselves. UCSD is not the competitive nor is it that great of a program. I know for a fact they interview applicants with USMLE's well below 230.

 

[navysurgeon]

less than 230?

i think at this time-point, any General Sugery program in the country would be DELIGHTED to have someone with scores above 200...seriously, Gen Surg is becoming increasingly less competetive...all the smart kids are going into Derm, plastics, rads....can you blame them?

TNS

 

[avgjoe]

less than 230?

i think at this time-point, any General Sugery program in the country would be DELIGHTED to have someone with scores above 200...seriously, Gen Surg is becoming increasingly less competetive...all the smart kids are going into Derm, plastics, rads....can you blame them?

TNS

Actually, it seems like it's getting more competitive again. This year lots more of my classmates want to go into gsurg, and in talking to people at other med schools the same is true there.. I mean, there 'were' only 6 open spots last year!

 

[navysurgeon]

good point, maybe it is turning around...i wonder if that's part of the 80 hour work-week effect...i missed that action by one year...

 

[Leukocyte]

Actually, it seems like it's getting more competitive again. This year lots more of my classmates want to go into gsurg, and in talking to people at other med schools the same is true there.. I mean, there 'were' only 6 open spots last year!

Sometimes I wonder, it is REALLY a good idea to go into a speciality just because the hours are presumably less DURING RESIDENCY (ALONE)?

So is this a "healthy" logic?.....:

-80 hours = I want to go into Surgery

-More than 80 hours = I do not want to go into Surgery

I mean, does it really make a difference in THE END. You are still doing to be a General Surgeon in the end AND THERE WILL BE NO "80 HOUR RULE" TO PROTECT TOU. Am I missing something here?

 

[Dire Straits]

Am I missing something here?

not really. med students and residents tend to have the "it won't happen to me" type of attitude. in other words they figure now they have a good deal going with the 80 hour rule for GSurg during training and even when they won't be protected by this rule when they become attendings, they'll set up shop somehow to work reasonable hours. so, yes the sudden increase in the popularity of GSurg is directly correlated with the 80 hour rule. in the few years before the 80 hour rule came into effect GSurg was unpopular. there were even articles published about its increasing unpopularity in the Annals. and then once the 80 hour rule came into effect **poof** it became popular again.

 

[Leukocyte]

not really. med students and residents tend to have the "it won't happen to me" type of attitude. in other words they figure now they have a good deal going with the 80 hour rule for GSurg during training and even when they won't be protected by this rule when they become attendings, they'll set up shop somehow to work reasonable hours. so, yes the sudden increase in the popularity of GSurg is directly correlated with the 80 hour rule. in the few years before the 80 hour rule came into effect GSurg was unpopular. there were even articles published about its increasing unpopularity in the Annals. and then once the 80 hour rule came into effect **poof** it became popular again.

True...but can you work reasonable hours and still make a decent salary as a General Surgeon?

 

[Dire Straits]

True...but can you work reasonable hours and still make a decent salary as a General Surgeon?

yes. as long as you set yourself up right in regards to location and practice type. for example, you can make serious bank working in a remote underserved area of the country. but you'll get hammered by calls because you're basically the only guy out there, so you'll make great money but your hours will suck. you have to find a practice that has a good call coverage schedule and where you can make partner in a reasonable amount of time. but then again you could just limit your practive to breast surgery, they work set hours and make great money from what i've heard.