UCSF v UTMB

[Glassdyr]

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I need help. I'm torn between UTMB, a school I'm really passionate about for aerospace medicine and campus culture, and UCSF, a school where I'd get a portion of a tuition waiver.

Now, I usually hate research. I did neuro research for half a year after graduation and wanted to wrap my car around a tree. But that changed when I started getting into aerospace medicine and gravitational physiology. To me, this is the tits. I've got a lit review in print about the effect of microgravity on a certain body process (being vague intentionally to not doxx myself). Loved working on it. This is the only research I could see myself truly being invested in. I originally made it a goal to avoid schools where research was required, but now I see myself pursuing research while in med school -- as long as it has to do with the body in space. This is why I'm so excited about UTMB, as I would have direct contact with their civilian aerospace medicine residency and be able to network. (Note that I would have to pursue aerospace as a civilian as I cannot pass a physical due to medical reasons.)

However, I'm a recipient of the CalVet tuition waiver, which draws me to UCSF. It waives tuition, but not other fees i.e. housing, health insurance, etc. I also won't get it until January 2025, halfway through MS2. I'm over the income limit for both 2022 and 2023, and the income limit for the waiver is based on the previous calendar year. Still, going to UCSF would mean that I get 2.5 years of free med school -- at the loss of a niche program and campus culture that I'm really interested in.

I'm also interested in emergency medicine, anesthesia, and gen/trauma surgery if my aerospace pipe dream doesn't work out. Prestige is personally unimportant to me, and I would actually prefer to go to a less prestigious school so that I can work hard and stand out, a strategy that's worked very well for me in the past. However, I've gotten the impression that name-brand schools can help in residency applications and networking. I'm not entirely sure how much name-brand recognition helps someone, though, if much at all.

UCSF

• Pros
  • CalVet tuition/fee waiver for 2.5 years
  • Space medicine health program with the TSI Lab
  • Name brand recognition
  • SF is cool. Lots of events, venues, and opportunities that you can't find anywhere else -- if I'll have the time to take advantage of them
  • Justice orientation: plentiful opportunities to work with minority groups, something important to me
• Cons
  • Cost of living in SF. Rent is still pretty bad even in on-campus housing
  • I didn't get a good impression from my interview. I remember how much they talked up their app that lets students find free leftovers from restaurants, venues, etc. as a major form of assistance they offer their students -- and not much else.
  • I feel less at ease in the campus culture; not in a bad way, I just feel different.

UTMB

• Pros
  • Laidback, unpretentious culture that I really connect with
  • Direct contact with a civilian aerospace medicine residency program!
  • I get the impression I'll have more time to pursue opportunities important to me i.e. clinical volunteering and research with the schedule at UTMB
  • Low OOS tuition; so low that it's actually lower than UCSF IS tuition lol.
  • Lower COL
• Cons
  • Lower-tier school
  • Loss of the fee waiver
  • It's Texas, public transport is virtually nonexistent; I'll be car-dependent again

I'm also on waitlists for UCD and UCSD. These are schools I'd sprint to over UCSF. Still, I'm not holding my breath that I'll get in off the waitlist, so right now I need to decide if I want to accept UCSF and reject UTMB.

I'd also like to tap in anyone who may know more about CalVet than me or who can help me crunch COA numbers. It's possible that I'd actually break even between UCSF and UTMB, what with COL and other hidden fees I noticed at UCSF. I'm also considering the VA HPSP if I do go to UTMB, where I go into IM or EM or something, grind out my VA years, then pursue aerospace as a second residency as many UTMB aerospace residents do.

 

[plshelpmeineedhelp]

UCSF

 

[AstroSidekick]

UCSF times a million!

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I need help. I'm torn between UTMB, a school I'm really passionate about for aerospace medicine and campus culture, and UCSF, a school where I'd get a portion of a tuition waiver.

Now, I usually hate research. I did neuro research for half a year after graduation and wanted to wrap my car around a tree. But that changed when I started getting into aerospace medicine and gravitational physiology. To me, this is the tits. I've got a lit review in print about the effect of microgravity on a certain body process (being vague intentionally to not doxx myself). Loved working on it. This is the only research I could see myself truly being invested in. I originally made it a goal to avoid schools where research was required, but now I see myself pursuing research while in med school -- as long as it has to do with the body in space. This is why I'm so excited about UTMB, as I would have direct contact with their civilian aerospace medicine residency and be able to network. (Note that I would have to pursue aerospace as a civilian as I cannot pass a physical due to medical reasons.)

However, I'm a recipient of the CalVet tuition waiver, which draws me to UCSF. It waives tuition, but not other fees i.e. housing, health insurance, etc. I also won't get it until January 2025, halfway through MS2. I'm over the income limit for both 2022 and 2023, and the income limit for the waiver is based on the previous calendar year. Still, going to UCSF would mean that I get 2.5 years of free med school -- at the loss of a niche program and campus culture that I'm really interested in.

I'm also interested in emergency medicine, anesthesia, and gen/trauma surgery if my aerospace pipe dream doesn't work out. Prestige is personally unimportant to me, and I would actually prefer to go to a less prestigious school so that I can work hard and stand out, a strategy that's worked very well for me in the past. However, I've gotten the impression that name-brand schools can help in residency applications and networking. I'm not entirely sure how much name-brand recognition helps someone, though, if much at all.

UCSF

• Pros
  • CalVet tuition/fee waiver for 2.5 years
  • Space medicine health program with the TSI Lab
  • Name brand recognition
  • SF is cool. Lots of events, venues, and opportunities that you can't find anywhere else -- if I'll have the time to take advantage of them
  • Justice orientation: plentiful opportunities to work with minority groups, something important to me
• Cons
  • Cost of living in SF. Rent is still pretty bad even in on-campus housing
  • I didn't get a good impression from my interview. I remember how much they talked up their app that lets students find free leftovers from restaurants, venues, etc. as a major form of assistance they offer their students -- and not much else.
  • I feel less at ease in the campus culture; not in a bad way, I just feel different.

UTMB

• Pros
  • Laidback, unpretentious culture that I really connect with
  • Direct contact with a civilian aerospace medicine residency program!
  • I get the impression I'll have more time to pursue opportunities important to me i.e. clinical volunteering and research with the schedule at UTMB
  • Low OOS tuition; so low that it's actually lower than UCSF IS tuition lol.
  • Lower COL
• Cons
  • Lower-tier school
  • Loss of the fee waiver
  • It's Texas, public transport is virtually nonexistent; I'll be car-dependent again

I'm also on waitlists for UCD and UCSD. These are schools I'd sprint to over UCSF. Still, I'm not holding my breath that I'll get in off the waitlist, so right now I need to decide if I want to accept UCSF and reject UTMB.

I'd also like to tap in anyone who may know more about CalVet than me or who can help me crunch COA numbers. It's possible that I'd actually break even between UCSF and UTMB, what with COL and other hidden fees I noticed at UCSF. I'm also considering the VA HPSP if I do go to UTMB, where I go into IM or EM or something, grind out my VA years, then pursue aerospace as a second residency as many UTMB aerospace residents do.

Just want to throw it out there. No point to handicap yourself when you have a great option such as UCSF (UT is a good program) when it comes to residency app. If you want to do space medicine, you will just do it after med school. It’s not a competitive program that requires extensive networking to get in. The first and foremost thing in med school is to learn medicine both through books and patient interaction. The second thing is to have a strong support for whatever you plan on doing. You may feel excited about aerospace medicine now, but I bet in a year or two you will change your mind. So if I were you, I would pick the school with the best rep and resources. I don’t understand why you would sprint to UCSD and UCD over UCSF either.

 

[wysdoc]

If you hadn't told the story about the aerospace medicine track really inspiring you and sparking your interest so strongly, I would have said to choose UCSF easily.
I understand the pull between the two.
How does 4 years of UTMB tuition compare to the break you get on tuition at UCSF?

Have you been able to speak to anyone who actually did the aerospace track at UTMB to get their take on it?
You seem like a mature and thoughtful person, so I think you will arrive at the best decision for you.

 

[Glassdyr]

Thank you everyone as well as all who DMed me with information about these schools. I've done some soul-searching over this last week on why I'm so averse to UCSF.

First, cost. It looks like there's a noticeable difference because of my life circumstances.

• UCSF: I would pay 1.5yrs of $45,200 in tuition and 2.5yrs of $9,986 CalVet tuition. Inclusive of estimated rent/utilities/living expenses, I calculated a CoA estimate of $183,005. It goes up to $202,000 if some clause indicates I can't utilize CalVet halfway through a school year.
• UTMB: I should have mentioned this earlier, but I would get in-state tuition after 1 year at UTMB due to my life circumstances. Their website gives $116,957 for 4 years of tuition/fees with first year OOS. I calculated a CoA estimate of $171,197.

As for more personal reasons, one reason is that UCSF's required research time is (at least on the surface) a concern for me. What if I get there and realize that I truly don't want to do research in med school?

Further, I admit, I'm afraid of the school's caliber. I'm worried I'll lose time for other things that are important to me if this is a gunner school. I did the gunner thing at a high-tier school for the second half of my premed years. It did nothing for me that I couldn't have done at a lower-tier school with the same drive. If UCSF's reputation won't help me in my future endeavors, especially if I do remain interested in less competitive residencies, why go?

Lastly, I was assaulted in July while applying to schools. I remember staring through my laptop screen into the middle distance trying to write secondaries. Since then, I'm different. I've lost a lot of motivation and ambition for even daily tasks. The applicant that UCSF saw on the primary and secondary is not me anymore. Straight up, I'm afraid I won't fit in with UCSF or rise to the level expected of its students -- and I've always been very laidback, which keeps pulling me to UTMB, coupled with how I love living in Texas cities.

So, the questions I've boiled it down to are:
1. Would I be able to be involved with the space medicine residency program in any meaningful way at UTMB? If so, would that even help me when I graduate -- as in, are connections valued in space medicine? This is something I'm discussing with one of their program contacts.
2. Is this cost difference substantial, especially in light of an attending's salary? I get the impression the answer is no, especially as I won't be going into academic medicine.
3. What *are* the students like at UCSF, outside of admissions/interviews?

In the end, I know UCSF is the dream school of so many people. I'm sure there's waitlisted applicants reading this thread and tearing their hair out. I just don't know if I'm the right fit for it.

 

[AstroSidekick]

I'm sorry to hear about your assault, and I think you are pretty courageous in completing your applications.

On an unrelated note, I wanted to add information about UTMB is its popular fraternity culture. A few friends and I have talked to several M4s, and it seems like if you are in the frat culture, it comes with social advantages (ie., parties, a house, networking, being voted onto every board you want, etc..) and academic advantages (ie., it's well known that students jot down the questions they are asked so the next generation of students can use those to study). Those who are the most successful at UTMB were often involved in those organizations. However, I'm sure there are a lot of people who match into their dream specialty in their dream location without being in a med school frat.

For me, this is a significant drawback to UTMB as I would not be comfortable in these environments.

 

[wysdoc]

I'm sorry to hear about your assault, and I think you are pretty courageous in completing your applications.

On an unrelated note, I wanted to add information about UTMB is its popular fraternity culture. A few friends and I have talked to several M4s, and it seems like if you are in the frat culture, it comes with social advantages (ie., parties, a house, networking, being voted onto every board you want, etc..) and academic advantages (ie., it's well known that students jot down the questions they are asked so the next generation of students can use those to study). Those who are the most successful at UTMB were often involved in those organizations. However, I'm sure there are a lot of people who match into their dream specialty in their dream location without being in a med school frat.

For me, this is a significant drawback to UTMB as I would not be comfortable in these environments.

You don't have to be in the frathouse or its culture, and Galveston is a pretty safe living place.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Thank you everyone as well as all who DMed me with information about these schools. I've done some soul-searching over this last week on why I'm so averse to UCSF.

First, cost. It looks like there's a noticeable difference because of my life circumstances.

• UCSF: I would pay 1.5yrs of $45,200 in tuition and 2.5yrs of $9,986 CalVet tuition. Inclusive of estimated rent/utilities/living expenses, I calculated a CoA estimate of $183,005. It goes up to $202,000 if some clause indicates I can't utilize CalVet halfway through a school year.
• UTMB: I should have mentioned this earlier, but I would get in-state tuition after 1 year at UTMB due to my life circumstances. Their website gives $116,957 for 4 years of tuition/fees with first year OOS. I calculated a CoA estimate of $171,197.

As for more personal reasons, one reason is that UCSF's required research time is (at least on the surface) a concern for me. What if I get there and realize that I truly don't want to do research in med school?

Further, I admit, I'm afraid of the school's caliber. I'm worried I'll lose time for other things that are important to me if this is a gunner school. I did the gunner thing at a high-tier school for the second half of my premed years. It did nothing for me that I couldn't have done at a lower-tier school with the same drive. If UCSF's reputation won't help me in my future endeavors, especially if I do remain interested in less competitive residencies, why go?

Lastly, I was assaulted in July while applying to schools. I remember staring through my laptop screen into the middle distance trying to write secondaries. Since then, I'm different. I've lost a lot of motivation and ambition for even daily tasks. The applicant that UCSF saw on the primary and secondary is not me anymore. Straight up, I'm afraid I won't fit in with UCSF or rise to the level expected of its students -- and I've always been very laidback, which keeps pulling me to UTMB, coupled with how I love living in Texas cities.

So, the questions I've boiled it down to are:
1. Would I be able to be involved with the space medicine residency program in any meaningful way at UTMB? If so, would that even help me when I graduate -- as in, are connections valued in space medicine? This is something I'm discussing with one of their program contacts.
2. Is this cost difference substantial, especially in light of an attending's salary? I get the impression the answer is no, especially as I won't be going into academic medicine.
3. What *are* the students like at UCSF, outside of admissions/interviews?

In the end, I know UCSF is the dream school of so many people. I'm sure there's waitlisted applicants reading this thread and tearing their hair out. I just don't know if I'm the right fit for it.

If you have serious doubt about UCSF, you should go to Texas. Every year there are plenty people turning down UCSF for other schools. I wouldn’t worry about the fact it’s the dream school of so many others. If it’s not your dream school, you just move on.

 

[TheOtherAlien]

I don't think you would find that the culture at UCSF is gunnery or causes problems for you with regard to wanting to find your own path. I have no reason to believe that UCSF would be any less supportive of you than UTMB. In addition, the difference in your calculated CoA for each school is ultimately negligible, so I would try to put that part of the equation out of your mind, if possible. All this said, if you really feel averse to UCSF and are convinced you would be happier at UTMB, then that's all there is to it. I would just encourage you to strongly consider the relative increase in flexibility of choice that being at UCSF would afford you.