UCSF vs Stony Brook Dental

[matchatea]

Happy Holidays. I was fortunate to be accepted to both Stony Brook and UCSF dental schools. I am a NY resident. The cost of attendance (including cost of living) for UCSF will be 20K more expensive than Stony over the course of 4 years. For those attend or attended either school, can you please share your insights on the pros and cons for the school? Thank you very much.
I think the D1 year integration with the medical students at Stony Brook will be a great opportunity for someone who is planning to become an oral surgeon. However, I am not.

Really appreciate your input!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[caffeine jitters]

If UCSF is truly only 20k more expensive over the course of the 4 years, including living expenses, I would absolutely go to UCSF. As you mentioned, the integrated Med School curriculum at Stony is great for someone planning to go OMFS; but, because you aren’t, the Med School integration may be a bit overkill. On top of that, UCSF is either fully H/P/F or they have a larger percentage of their classes that are graded that way than Stony. So, even if you were to decide later on down the line that OMFS is something you wanted to do, I am inclined to believe you may have more time to study for the CBSE and extern at UCSF because of the H/P/F. As far as the other specialties go, you can absolutely match from either School.

With that said, you should be extremely proud of yourself because these are two elite level programs and you would do well at either. While I believe UCSF edges out Stony in this case, someone with more experience with the programs may be able to provide you with more insight. Good luck!

 

[DMDtoMD]

Stony is the better school. UCSF is the more enjoyable location.

I’m laughing at the fact someone would think H/P/F is a big enough plus to beat out a school with a class size of 46 that offers a medical education and doesn’t even rank.

Also, Stony doesn’t just graduate OMFS applicants. They have the medical school education to remove the distinction between oral and systemic health for the benefit of your future patients.

 

[caffeine jitters]

I’m laughing at the fact someone would think H/P/F is a big enough plus to beat out a school with a class size of 46 that offers a medical education and doesn’t even rank.

"Hey. They laughed at Louis Armstrong when he said he was gonna go to the moon. Now he’s up there, laughing at them." - Chazz Michael Michaels

 

[Life of Pablo]

If you know for a fact you don’t want to pursue OMFS, go to UCSF. UCSF offers the same, if not more, opportunities for research, externships, volunteering etc. You won’t have to worry about learning all the additional information that a medical based curriculum requires. Additionally, it’s in a WAY better location than Stony. 20k more expensive is a bargain.

 

[FeralisExtremum]

They have the medical school education to remove the distinction between oral and systemic health for the benefit of your future patients.

I remember being a pre-dent and thinking a medical school education during dental school would be a good thing too. I was really, really wrong.

 

[matchatea]

I remember being a pre-dent and thinking a medical school education during dental school would be a good thing too. I was really, really wrong.

Hi, can you please elaborate on this? Thanks!

 

[matchatea]

If UCSF is truly only 20k more expensive over the course of the 4 years, including living expenses, I would absolutely go to UCSF. As you mentioned, the integrated Med School curriculum at Stony is great for someone planning to go OMFS; but, because you aren’t, the Med School integration may be a bit overkill. On top of that, UCSF is either fully H/P/F or they have a larger percentage of their classes that are graded that way than Stony. So, even if you were to decide later on down the line that OMFS is something you wanted to do, I am inclined to believe you may have more time to study for the CBSE and extern at UCSF because of the H/P/F. As far as the other specialties go, you can absolutely match from either School.

With that said, you should be extremely proud of yourself because these are two elite level programs and you would do well at either. While I believe UCSF edges out Stony in this case, someone with more experience with the programs may be able to provide you with more insight. Good luck!

Thank you! 🙂

 

[FeralisExtremum]

Hi, can you please elaborate on this? Thanks!

In my experience, a medical school curriculum is just a lot more useless information you need to memorize which means more studying and less free time. The only real benefit I could think of would be for the CBSE but even if I wanted to be an oral surgeon (I don't) it would be easier to go to a school that doesn't integrate the curriculum and use the extra time saved from classes to prepare for the CBSE directly instead.

 

[DMDtoMD]

.

 

[Likkriue]

In my experience, a medical school curriculum is just a lot more useless information you need to memorize which means more studying and less free time. The only real benefit I could think of would be for the CBSE but even if I wanted to be an oral surgeon (I don't) it would be easier to go to a school that doesn't integrate the curriculum and use the extra time saved from classes to prepare for the CBSE directly instead.

Either stony brook has the easiest med school experience of all medical schools or medical school is this simple but I found out I have more time than many other dental schools. While other schools force students to take 5 classes we only take 3. The classes are subjectively harder but I found them pretty doable studying 4-5 hours max a day and taking weekends off.

Also stony brook only spends 1 year within the medical school integrated program where we are basically medical students with extra classes as opposed to a year and a half like Columbia. We are graded but not ranked. Very different curriculum from columbia since you guys have anatomy for half a year while we have it for 2 months max.

Next the 20k difference is significant, I didn't realize how loaded dental students are since 20k is a drop in the bucket according to most of you. Your family is in NY, whose funding all the plane tickets back and forth? Are you going to visit often? That's stuff to think about and it will only raise expenses. I vote stony brook because I don't see how stony brook offers any less than ucsf.
You go to dental school taking out as little loans as possible and work as a dentist. It's 4 quick years and then you are out there.

 

[Likkriue]

In my experience, a medical school curriculum is just a lot more useless information you need to memorize which means more studying and less free time. The only real benefit I could think of would be for the CBSE but even if I wanted to be an oral surgeon (I don't) it would be easier to go to a school that doesn't integrate the curriculum and use the extra time saved from classes to prepare for the CBSE directly instead.

Also Wasn't Columbias p/f supposed to be stress free like every pre dent claims it is? Why are you losing time when you could just scrape by with 70s and just learn the relevant material and skip the medical school jargon. It's not like you are forced to take Step 1 like 20 years ago. My friend at Uconn is complaining they are overworked and Uconn is p/f.

Yet here I am coasting at stony. I sleep 8-9 hours a day and never study pass 11 pm and sometimes sleep at 10. This is why every time someone brings up p/f I get skeptical. People don't go to multiple schools yet claim p/f is more stress free than the other schools without having ever attended a graded school. Really makes you wonder how much of sdn you can take with a grain of salt. The only thing that is constant of course is tuition. That is always certain.

 

[wengerout]

In my experience, a medical school curriculum is just a lot more useless information you need to memorize which means more studying and less free time. The only real benefit I could think of would be for the CBSE but even if I wanted to be an oral surgeon (I don't) it would be easier to go to a school that doesn't integrate the curriculum and use the extra time saved from classes to prepare for the CBSE directly instead.

I may be biased because I am (probably) going to take the CBSE but I don't have any regrets so far. As annoying as it was i'll take MM any day over waxing teeth.

 

[wengerout]

Also Wasn't Columbias p/f supposed to be stress free like every pre dent claims it is? Why are you losing time when you could just scrape by with 70s and just learn the relevant material and skip the medical school jargon. It's not like you are forced to take Step 1 like 20 years ago. My friend at Uconn is complaining they are overworked and Uconn is p/f.

Yet here I am coasting at stony. I sleep 8-9 hours a day and never study pass 11 pm and sometimes sleep at 10. This is why every time someone brings up p/f I get skeptical. People don't go to multiple schools yet claim p/f is more stress free than the other schools without having ever attended a graded school. Really makes you wonder how much of sdn you can take with a grain of salt. The only thing that is constant of course is tuition. That is always certain.

I think you underestimate yourself man 😛 .

You can definitely "chill" to a degree and get away with it but you still have to work if you want to pass. I still think in the grand scheme of things though margin for error is much wider than with ranks at a traditional school. Of course since Stony doesn't rank you're in a good spot.

 

[wengerout]

Next the 20k difference is significant, I didn't realize how loaded dental students are since 20k is a drop in the bucket according to most of you. Your family is in NY, whose funding all the plane tickets back and forth? Are you going to visit often? That's stuff to think about and it will only raise expenses. I vote stony brook because I don't see how stony brook offers any less than ucsf.
You go to dental school taking out as little loans as possible and work as a dentist. It's 4 quick years and then you are out there.

When you're paying 300k already 20k is only a 6% difference. A lot of money but I am not gonna go somewhere I don't like over a 6% (Man I sound like a sprint commercial now).

 

[Life of Pablo]

Also Wasn't Columbias p/f supposed to be stress free like every pre dent claims it is? Why are you losing time when you could just scrape by with 70s and just learn the relevant material and skip the medical school jargon. It's not like you are forced to take Step 1 like 20 years ago. My friend at Uconn is complaining they are overworked and Uconn is p/f.

Yet here I am coasting at stony. I sleep 8-9 hours a day and never study pass 11 pm and sometimes sleep at 10. This is why every time someone brings up p/f I get skeptical. People don't go to multiple schools yet claim p/f is more stress free than the other schools without having ever attended a graded school. Really makes you wonder how much of sdn you can take with a grain of salt. The only thing that is constant of course is tuition. That is always certain.

A gunner always ensures they receive the perfect study to sleep ratio for maximum performance 😛

 

[Likkriue]

A gunner always ensures they receive the perfect study to sleep ratio for maximum performance 😛

Haha, I'm playing video games and watching Netflix for a good amount of my time. And I'm not the smartest guy in my class trust me.

20k is a ton of money. 5k is a ton of money. People will start to figure out the value of money when you get out in the real world. Also tell me how p/f and being in California is so much better than Stony Brook that it's worth 20,000+ whatever plane flights.

 

[Lau Sang]

\ People will start to figure out the value of money when you get out in the real world. \

Not disagreeing with anything you've said (or even this very statement), but I don't understand how it is so often that the one spouting this advice is himself a student who has not yet been out in the real world. It comes off as extremely condescending.

 

[caffeine jitters]

What makes you think someone hasn’t been out in the real world just because they are currently a student?

 

[Likkriue]

Not disagreeing with anything you've said (or even this very statement), but I don't understand how it is so often that the one spouting this advice is himself a student who has not yet been out in the real world. It comes off as extremely condescending.

Then stop treating thousands of dollars (in loans for gods sake) as if it's nothing. It's "only" this it's "only" that is a terrible mindset.

Next I was out in the real world for quite awhile so don't assume that I haven't been.

 

[Lau Sang]

Then stop treating thousands of dollars (in loans for gods sake) as if it's nothing. It's "only" this it's "only" that is a terrible mindset.

Next I was out in the real world for quite awhile so don't assume that I haven't been.

My bad. I mean out in the world as a dentist, and to me it seemed like a fair assumption that you meant so as well. And again, I'm not disagreeing with the advice itself. I myself am going to UB over Stony because it's my cheapest option.

 

[Likkriue]

My bad. I mean out in the world as a dentist, and to me it seemed like a fair assumption that you meant so as well. And again, I'm not disagreeing with the advice itself. I myself am going to UB over Stony because it's my cheapest option.

Oh I got you. Not a big deal! You are right I don't know what it's going to be like when I graduate in three and a half years. But I am trying to be realistic as possible. Saving tens of thousands before interest hits seems to be a pretty sweet deal.

 

[wengerout]

Haha, I'm playing video games and watching Netflix for a good amount of my time. And I'm not the smartest guy in my class trust me.

20k is a ton of money. 5k is a ton of money. People will start to figure out the value of money when you get out in the real world. Also tell me how p/f and being in California is so much better than Stony Brook that it's worth 20,000+ whatever plane flights.

Lol again you underestimate yourself.

As for the money it’s a lot of money but I paid more than that (about 4x that amount) to go to Columbia over UAB and have no regrets so far. If anything my experiences so far have solidified my choice to go to a pass/fail school. To each their own though.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[0rgansm]

I Voted UCSF. I believe Stony Brook is the better school, but I can kinda tell you want to go to UCSF (which won’t put you at a disadvantage).

 

[P0W3RL1FT3R]

I would go to Stony Brook even if it was 20k more than UCSF

Edit: I just read you don’t want to specialize. In this case, it doesn’t matter where you go. After a few years of practice, your hand skills will likely be identical from either school. Go where you’ll be happy. Want a change of scene? Go to SF. Want to network in NY? Go stony.

 

[ProspectivePostPreDent]

In my experience, a medical school curriculum is just a lot more useless information you need to memorize which means more studying and less free time. The only real benefit I could think of would be for the CBSE but even if I wanted to be an oral surgeon (I don't) it would be easier to go to a school that doesn't integrate the curriculum and use the extra time saved from classes to prepare for the CBSE directly instead.

Haha, I'm playing video games and watching Netflix for a good amount of my time. And I'm not the smartest guy in my class trust me.

I think you underestimate yourself man 😛 .
You can definitely "chill" to a degree and get away with it but you still have to work if you want to pass. I still think in the grand scheme of things though margin for error is much wider than with ranks at a traditional school. Of course since Stony doesn't rank you're in a good spot.

This conversation is really interesting to me. I've already turned down a few schools (and paid a deposit at UConn), but there are a couple more that I just can't cut out.

I'm interested in Feralis and Wenger's perspectives because on interview day, the Columbia students seemed to have the most free time of any I met except for maybe BU. This is the first I've heard of someone perceiving that they're doing above average amounts of work.

Likkriue, are you pulling off decent grades? I'm not looking at oral surgery, but I'd like to keep my options open.

UConn and Columbia were my favorite, but I liked SB nearly as much, and if you're able to breath a little bit, that would be helpful for me, because I'm thinking about having a kid during school (I'm the male, so it's less brutal).

 

[endorotary]

If you are planning to be a general dentist, then I would consider which school would prepare you the most in terms of clinical experience so that you will feel prepared to go out and practice after you graduate. I don't know how much clinical experience Stony Brook gives their students but one thing I have heard from recent UCSF grads is that alot of them don't feel clinically prepared enough to go straight into private practice so each year the number of students wanting to do AEGD/GPR seems to increase. I feel that this is the trend not only at UCSF but other schools as well which is sad to hear.
One area UCSF grads feel the most unprepared is when it comes to doing root canals, especially molar endo since the students are not allowed to do any molar endo cases unless they complete an endo clerkship. I don't know if that is one of the reasons why so many of them failed the endo portion of the WREB this past year since I heard 18 of them had failed and had to retake the endo portion down in SoCal.

 

[wengerout]

I'm interested in Feralis and Wenger's perspectives because on interview day, the Columbia students seemed to have the most free time of any I met except for maybe BU. This is the first I've heard of someone perceiving that they're doing above average amounts of work.

I don’t think we do above average work when it’s all said and done. Compared to my friends at other schools I personally have more free time than they do. On the flip side in terms of didactic courses we do get a bit more on our plate than maybe another non-med school based school.

Not having honors might play a part in our difference in opinion though.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Likkriue]

This conversation is really interesting to me. I've already turned down a few schools (and paid a deposit at UConn), but there are a couple more that I just can't cut out.

I'm interested in Feralis and Wenger's perspectives because on interview day, the Columbia students seemed to have the most free time of any I met except for maybe BU. This is the first I've heard of someone perceiving that they're doing above average amounts of work.

Likkriue, are you pulling off decent grades? I'm not looking at oral surgery, but I'd like to keep my options open.

UConn and Columbia were my favorite, but I liked SB nearly as much, and if you're able to breath a little bit, that would be helpful for me, because I'm thinking about having a kid during school (I'm the male, so it's less brutal).

I'm 4 months in and have very good grades currently. Yes you will be able to breath especially if you don't want to specialize. And even if you do you can still do it.

 

[Advance]

In my experience, a medical school curriculum is just a lot more useless information you need to memorize which means more studying and less free time. The only real benefit I could think of would be for the CBSE but even if I wanted to be an oral surgeon (I don't) it would be easier to go to a school that doesn't integrate the curriculum and use the extra time saved from classes to prepare for the CBSE directly instead.

Yeah, I could see that. I couldn’t imagine having an integrated curriculum. I feel like we already have so much to learn.

 

[FeralisExtremum]

I may be biased because I am (probably) going to take the CBSE but I don't have any regrets so far. As annoying as it was i'll take MM any day over waxing teeth.

First semester wasn't bad, especially looking back on it. The next two semesters are when it starts to get rough in terms of the volume of material you need to cover, especially for BHD. I'm not sure how different the curriculum and testing situation will be for your class though.

Also Wasn't Columbias p/f supposed to be stress free like every pre dent claims it is? Why are you losing time when you could just scrape by with 70s and just learn the relevant material and skip the medical school jargon...

I'm interested in Feralis and Wenger's perspectives because on interview day, the Columbia students seemed to have the most free time of any I met except for maybe BU. This is the first I've heard of someone perceiving that they're doing above average amounts of work.

There's still plenty of free time if you work hard, but some of it gets eaten up when you have to cover all the extra medical curriculum material that's almost completely useless beyond the didactic years of dental school. I think we do an above average amount of coursework but a below (possibly way below) average amount of simlab stuff for the first three semesters, so if you're just looking to pass you'll have a ton of free time on your hands. Since my class still has H/P/F grades for most of the didactic courses (the class after mine is just P/F) and is possibly still ranked in some way, students that want to be competitive for specializing are responsible for not just passing those exams but doing well on them. The difference in studying to just pass vs honoring can be significant, and that's when the normal stress of studying gets exacerbated by the ridiculous amount of material that comes with a med school curriculum.

 

[wengerout]

First semester wasn't bad, especially looking back on it. The next two semesters are when it starts to get rough in terms of the volume of material you need to cover, especially for BHD. I'm not sure how different the curriculum and testing situation will be for your class though.

Supposedly it's changed a lot. They re-vamped Neuro and moved it to the BHD 1, and moved a lot of stuff from BHD 1 to BHD 2. I guess we'll see how it compares to 1st semester.