UCSF vs UOP vs Columbia

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UCSF vs UOP vs Columbia

  • UCSF

    Votes: 40 35.1%
  • UOP

    Votes: 35 30.7%
  • Columbia

    Votes: 39 34.2%

  • Total voters
    114

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Hi everyone! I was accepted to these programs and I am having a tough time deciding on which one to attend. Unfortunately, I don't know if I want to specialize and I feel that I won't know until I'm in dental school. How well will these schools prepare me clinically if I decide to not specialize? I would appreciate any feedback and also please note that I will not be taking out loans.
 
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All three are great schools. UoP is the most clinically focused but the trade off is it’s the hardest of the three to specialize out of. Columbia just got a brand new clinic/new clinical curriculum to boot and I’ve enjoyed it so far.


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I’d go UoP. Clinically strongest, every dentist I’ve talked to that I’ve shadowed has good things to say about the school and they didn’t even attend it. I may be wrong but while they’re not the best school for specializing in that list, they’re still better than the average school
 
UOP will prepare you the best clinically. UCSF will likely have a higher chance to specialize. Obv you can excel clinically at other schools as well, but there are more things in your favor at UOP (their whole mission is focused on producing well-rounded GPs). Similarly, you can also specialize coming from UOP, but the P/F grades, more opportunity for higher level research, and cheaper cost work in your favor at UCSF. Unless you work your ass off, then UOP would also be better for specializing if you can maintain a high class rank (high rank > P/F > low rank).

Columbia comes with all of the cost but without as much benefit compared to either UOP or UCSF. Still a great school and will do fine if you want to live in NY.. CDM has high specialization rates as well if I recall.
 
No one has heard of UOP outside of practicing dentists.
 
No one has heard of UOP outside of practicing dentists.
Just wondering but why would the reputation of the school really matter outside of the dental community? It's not like patients ask to see where you attended dental school. Moreover, if you go to UoP and become an excellent clinician, your work will speak for itself, and it won't matter if patients have heard of UoP or not.

To answer the OP's question, if you are dead set on specializing, I'd go to Columbia or UCSF. If you think there is a good chance you won't specialize, go to UoP. Congrats on these 3 amazing choices of schools. Can't go wrong with any of them!
 
UCSF has everything you could want, in my opinion. P/F curriculum, access to incredible faculty that is involved with elite level research, all specialties, and the lowest cost of the three. I know you said money isn't an issue for you and because of that I think it would be wise to save as much of that money as possible. It may come in handy when it comes time to open a practice or pay for a tuition-based residency.

That being said, UoP and Columbia are magnificent schools. UoP will make you the strongest clinician in my humble opinion, but I don't know if that is worth the cost and potential specialization sacrifice. Also, much of your clinical education will be improved upon through actual practice and CE after you graduate so that weighs the school even lower in my mind. Columbia is a magnificent school and the medical curriculum, P/F grades, access to elite faculty are all huge bonuses - especially if you're going to school with the intent of specializing. However, much of CDM's clinical education is pushed to the back end of the curriculum so that may be something to consider for you.

All are great schools and you should feel extremely proud to have been accepted to all three, congratulations! One other consideration I might add is to consider location and proximity to your family when making this decision. It is definitely nice to have family close by for support during these extremely taxing years.
 
isnt that like leaving a review without having used the product?

Yep, but these dentists also get to observe first-hand the handiwork of their colleagues and acquaintances that they meet who graduate from different schools.
 
If a dental class graduates a 100 dentists regardless of the school they attended. Odds are 1/3 will be good dentists with good people and dental skills. 1/3 will be average and 1/3 will be less than average. Being a good dentist has more to do with YOU than where you attended dental school.
 
All 3 are good, reputable schools.

So the question should be: which one makes the most practical and financial sense to attend?
Where do you want to live for 3/4 years? Which school is the most affordable?
I wouldn't focus too much on whether you want to specialize or not. The fact that schools like Columbia and Penn produce a lot of specialists only means that they attract people who enter school with the mindset/intention to specialize already.
 
Not knowing if you want to specialize, I would suggest just going with the cheapest option. Be sure to factor into your cost the year of lost wages by attending a 4-year program like UCSF or Columbia.

Congratulations on your acceptance to 3 top programs!
 
I'm a senior at UOP dental school right now. I can answer any questions for ya
 
I'm a senior at UOP dental school right now. I can answer any questions for ya
Now that UOP has an endo residency program, do you think it has affected the number of endo cases the predocs get to do? Do you know how many molar endos the average UOP student gets to complete before graduating?
At UCSF, it seems like the trend is that more and more seniors are doing AEGD/GPR before going into practice, is this the trend at UOP as well or do seniors feel well prepared to go straight into practice?
 
Now that UOP has an endo residency program, do you think it has affected the number of endo cases the predocs get to do? Do you know how many molar endos the average UOP student gets to complete before graduating?
At UCSF, it seems like the trend is that more and more seniors are doing AEGD/GPR before going into practice, is this the trend at UOP as well or do seniors feel well prepared to go straight into practice?

Honestly, I just feel like there isn't that much endo to go around our school. I've done 1 endo on a lower molar. That's it for my endo. I'd say my class average is 3-4 per student.
 
Honestly, I just feel like there isn't that much endo to go around our school. I've done 1 endo on a lower molar. That's it for my endo. I'd say my class average is 3-4 per student.
Thanks for that info. In the past, I had thought that UOP students got to do alot more RCT's as compared to UCSF students which I thought was a big advantage for students wanting to go straight into private practice but it seems like it is no longer the case. At least UOP students still get to do molar endos as compared to UCSF students.
 
I'm a senior at UOP dental school right now. I can answer any questions for ya
hi, trying to decide between UOP (SF) and Columbia (NY) - want to specialize , costs are pretty similar, how is the UOP curriculum first year, what specifically should I know and do that 1st year to stay on top of material etc and which is the most difficult class?
 
hi, trying to decide between UOP (SF) and Columbia (NY) - want to specialize , costs are pretty similar, how is the UOP curriculum first year, what specifically should I know and do that 1st year to stay on top of material etc and which is the most difficult class?

If you are dead set on specializing, Columbia. Their curriculum is designed to make it super easy for students to specialize. Clinical requirements are a joke (heard two students share a denture lol), more time to do research in a academically well renowned institute, medical curriculum if you want to go into OMFS, and P/F grades really lessen the load for students who are focused on building up their CV for residency and cannot care less about general dentistry. On the other hand, if you are not completely sure and there is a chance you want to be a GP, UoP all the way. 3 Year curriculum (saving one year is pretty big), and a clinically well rounded school with high expectations+rigorous clinical requirements make it a attractive choice. From what I have heard, UoP has a good reputation for producing skilled GPs that have no problem going straight in to private practice without PG training. On the other hand, I was told to stay clear of Columbia grads (GP) who have less then 5 years of experience out of school . But Columbia gives you a good didactic medical education (one of the best in the country) so they produce some very solid specialists.
 
hi, trying to decide between UOP (SF) and Columbia (NY) - want to specialize , costs are pretty similar, how is the UOP curriculum first year, what specifically should I know and do that 1st year to stay on top of material etc and which is the most difficult class?

Congratulations on your acceptances! Both of those programs are highly desirable and prestigious, you should be very proud.

With regard to specialization, you can specialize from any school. Some schools produce more specialists than others, but that is typically due to the culture of the school more than it is the quality of the students. That said, there will always be residency directors who have varying opinions about this and that dental school.

No doubt, it is easier certainly easier to specialize coming from a school with a strong culture of producing specialists. These schools typically offer more research opportunities, a stronger didactic education, and many like-minded students who are all planning to specialize.

Both schools are prestigious, established, and produce excellent dentists. Although some schools are associated more with specialization, that doesn't mean you can't specialize from either of them. The thing that most differentiates the two is the time to earn your doctoral degree.

No one can tell you with certainty how one program will affect your chances at getting into a specialty. What is certain however is the fact that one more year in dental school is a full year of lost income as a dentist. When you say that both schools cost about the same, you are correct with regard to tuition, but you must also factor in opportunity costs associated with lost income. This is especially pronounced for specialists who miss out on a year of salary that is higher than the average general dentist's salary.

A secondary factor would be location. UOP is in San Francisco. If that's your jam, then you may want to consider whether you will be happy in New York. The same is true the other way too. San Francisco and New York are two very different cities. Perhaps you have family in one location?

I wish I could help you with curriculum. I can tell you that we take the NBDE part I after our first year just like UOP. It is difficult, but completely doable. Dental schools are investing a lot of money into you, so they do a good job of making sure you don't fall behind or slip through the cracks.

As long as you stay caught up with the material, you can do anything other students have managed to do at UOP. You wouldn't have been accepted if the admissions committee didn't believe you could handle it! 🙂

Good luck in dental school! I'm sure you will be great no matter where you decide to attend!
 
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You can absolutely specialize out of UoP.


Edit: Here are some quick stats I recall of 2017 grads

Ortho: 12
Peds: 6
Endo: 1 (directly out of school)
Pros: 1
Perio: 3
OS: 4
Anesthesia: 1

Not everybody specializes out of UoP--but most who try to, are able to.


GPR/AEGD: 33

In comparison,

UCSF:

Ortho: 9
Peds: 7
Endo: 0
Perio: 4
Pros: 1
OS: 8
 
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Maybe that particular Columbia student exaggerated a bit with the example, but the point still stands that Columbia's clinical requirements are very very lacking on average and even more so compared to that of other more clinically driven schools such as UoP.

lol
 
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