UF vs. Miami

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by keysersoze, Nov 22, 2005.

  1. keysersoze

    keysersoze Junior Member
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    Hello all,

    Can anybody with past interview experience or other knowledge of these two programs compare/contrast them? I've read all of the info posted on their respective websites, but since they begin to sound the same after reading so many, the only thing I know for sure is how different they are geographically/culturally.

    Any input is appreciated.

    Keyser
     
  2. jetproppilot

    jetproppilot Turboprop Driver
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    All I can tell you is that my two favorite football teams are the Miami Hurricanes and whoevers playing the Gators.
     
  3. keysersoze

    keysersoze Junior Member
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    ;)

    Hehe...I hear you there. I also just realized that the search function is once again, well, functional. I've read stuff about both programs, but if anyone would like to add another $0.02, feel free.

    Good luck to all, and Happy Thanksgiving!
     
  4. aredoubleyou

    aredoubleyou Senior Member
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    I doubt you will find that one is clearly better than the other - although a lot of people that have been posting here over the last 2 years mention that UF is one of the "best" programs in the country, but it seems like theres about 50+ best programs, anyway....I think the decision will come down to whether you like Miami or Gainsville, (or work schedules, or something like that).
     
  5. rs2006

    rs2006 student
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    Hi there,

    I am familiar with the Univ of Miami Anesthesia program as I did a rotation with them down there and I think they have one of the best clinical exposures of any anesthesia residency programs in the country-- they have bascolm palmer (#1 eye hospital by usnews), Ryder trauma (one of the best trauma centers in the country-- you see all kinds of crazy airway stuff there), a HUGE transplant program, and lots of other crazy cases (lots of OB, etc). In addition, the program has improved significantly over the past several years with regards to didactics and from what I have heard, it is only getting better. In addition, the program is in Miami-- home of south beach, coconut grove, beautiful whether-- 'nuff said you get my drift-- a tropical paradise. However, the downside to the program is that Spanish is huge down there and you really need to speak spanish to survive-- there are very few patients who speak little or any english. The only possible downside that I can think regarding the program is that they are starting a CRNA training program next year so that might cause some turf battles regarding cases-- otherwise, A GREAT PROGRAM in a fun city!!

    Any other thoughts would be appreciated!!!
     
  6. jetproppilot

    jetproppilot Turboprop Driver
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    Por cuanto tiempo estenero en Miami?
     
    FFP likes this.
  7. zippy2u

    zippy2u Senior Member
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    When I was young and full of piss and vinegar, the hispanics had a saying about me: "manos de angel pero patas de diablo" An old Puerto Rican girlfriend use to rave about my "lingua de angel"... Regards, ----Zip
     
  8. marble1

    marble1 Junior Member

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    I went to med school in Miami and did not even apply, even though it would have meant being close to family. I don't know why anyone would want to do a residency there. It's a county hospital and has union nurses, which make for a very unplesant envirment- I saw a nurse spit on a resident once - I couldn't believe it. The beach, the sun, sure, but do you really want to be in a class of 30 some residents (that's 90 or so total,) and work 50 OR's. I know somone there who says you just get lost in the crowd so you better know what you're doing.

    As a CA3 many residents there have a hard time getting good cases, there are just not enough to go around. This has been discussed on scut work and here. They end up doubleing up so the CA3's can get the cases they need. There is a certain level of fighting between residents over this situation - not to mention kissing the attendendings asses to get what you need. All this not to mention if you don't speak Spanish you'll really have fun.

    Mayo and UF the way to go if you can. I've also heard from another friend that USF is getting better. You work a huge and diverse case load there all the way from CA1 - transplants, the whole nine yards.
     
  9. chinochulo

    chinochulo Member
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    I agree somewhat with the above poster....I went to med school there and didn't even bother (that was 5 years ago); however, I hear things have changed somewhat with the chairman. They do have a great OB department head--incredible speaker, but that's what he does, speaks around the country as a SOAP higher-up, so you wouldn't interact with him as much. Transplant/OB/Trauma are strong. I know one of my attendings from NYC went down there to work; it is fun in the sun, after all, and she is blond. Spanish, or an attempt to learn Spanish, is a must. Go where you want to spend three years of your life--that's why I picked Miami over Gainesville for med school (though I am now in extra debt). :laugh:
     
  10. marble1

    marble1 Junior Member

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    Thank you, but I forgot to mention (and I don't know how you feel about this.) Miami has one of the largest HIV and Hep rates in the US. I do concede - it really top notch for trauma, but so many cases are total double glove situations. This is not where I wanted to learn advanced line work.
     
  11. cubs3canes

    cubs3canes Senior Member
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    I went to Miami undergrad. I did a month at UM-anesthesia. While the clinical training is great and will only improve, I would hate to live in Miami again.
    We tried to look for houses in the metro area (within 20 minutes of jackson), nothing less than 300K for a 2bd/2bath. If you are single and can live in a condo, it would be great.

    UM has some other benefits. The residents are unionized, which leads to over 43K for intern year. They all get 1500 per year for food. Insurance is paid for in its entirety for all dependants. Yes, this means that a family of 4 will save about 300 per month.
     
  12. Idiopathic

    Idiopathic Newly Minted
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    UF is excellent. Really excellent, in a "we work you to death but you learn absolutely everything" whereas Mayo is a "we work you less and you learn from some of the best". My feelings.

    I think that, given the facility and the caseload, UF is one of the "five to ten best clinical programs" out there. Major drawbacks for me are the city and no moonlighting (as of yet). Also, two of my five interviewers were kind of "meh" on the place and hinted that faculty might leave en masse if certain things werent changed (i.e. pay)
     
  13. DrRobert

    DrRobert Day or Night
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    Do you really think that UF has similar caseloads to these programs?

    My top 10 clinical training programs in no particular order:

    UTSW
    MGH
    UCSF
    UPenn
    NW
    CCF
    Duke
    Rush
    Columbia
    UAB
     
  14. blocks

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    Hopkins?
     
  15. Idiopathic

    Idiopathic Newly Minted
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    In short, yes. I cant really put it ahead of MGH, UCSF or Cleveland Clinic, I dont think, but for sure on a par with the others. What makes Duke so special? UF is a tertiary referral center that sees tons of unique cases, are the cases at Duke (or NW or UAB?) that much better? Are there more of them? I doubt it.

    Ill agree that the teachers/attendings matter, and some of these places have some of the best in the world, but for pure clinical training/cases, I think that its hard to overlook UF/Shands as a great program.

    I would definitely put JHU on this list as well.

    I think Hopkins, UTSW, UF are the three best programs for clinical experience that I've seen (with the caveat being that I havent been to Boston or San Fran). Again, its all personal opinion, and I just think that when dealing with regional referral centers that service large areas of the country (a la UF/Shands) you are going to get a great caseload. When you partner that with a PD, like Dr. Mahla, who takes the time to plan the OR schedule daily to ensure you get a new experience, it would be hard to come out of UF without having seen something.

    With that said, if you are deciding among the ten programs you listed (or twenty others) something other than 'clinical experience' will come into play (i.e. lifestyle, city, 'name'), and UF does have some downside, in that they work 65 hours weekly, without taking call, and have poor relief coverage (few cRNA's).
     
  16. Pir8DeacDoc

    Pir8DeacDoc Cerumen Extractor
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    UF has been known to have some PACU issues that can be a real pain in the rear when your case is over and you get to sit on the patient in the OR. They have too much volume and not enough space, IMHO.
     
  17. marble1

    marble1 Junior Member

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    I know the original thread here were commentson a choice between UF and UM, but did want to make one more comment after seeing some of these posts. Having graduated from UM I have many friends who went to the states four programs, even though I ended up on the west coast. One of my best friends is at USF. At first he thought he was going to die during the begining stages of the CA1 year adn wanted out, but is now changing his mind. The reason was the case load was so huge and they ran in general at a very high level of intensity. He felt as many CA1's did, over his head.

    Right now I think there is a window of opportunity at that program. Two years ago there was a great deal of negitive things going around about the program- even now it seems. However, USF did something which took a great deal of balls. They had two sources of anesthesia services at Tampa GH. One was the hospital hired teaching attendings and one was a private group. The private group was doing ALL the major cases- heart transplants, livers, everything. The residents got what was left over - this is why two years ago they did most of their cardiac training at another hospital - even though TGH is number 12 in the nation for heart transplants. During this time CA3's would often have nothing to do - even with major cases going on a stones throw away.

    The Dean of Med. made a gutsy choice along with the head of the group. They gave the TGH teaching portion to the group. (The residents also train at a large cancer institute, the local VA, and a childrens hospital considered the best in the region.) This angered many doctors at the hospital, including other specialties, and some quit. It was a major battle. This is what you are reading about when you google the program.

    As a result most CA1s this year have already done several Kidney transplants and most have assisted attendings on or watched liver, heart and heart+lung transplants and are working most anything else you can think of.

    Because of the serous nature and sheer quantity of cases being done at this hospital, what most med students don't know when searching for info is that the majority of these attendings are fellowship trained anesthesiologists from major programs like MGH, SCSF and Cleveland, including what appear to be one the best neuro and critical care docs (two seperate people) in the nation and several outstanding cardio and pain attendings.

    Tampa General is the only level 1 trauma center for the Gulf Coast of Florida and gets all major cases for the region. I am a CA2 at UCLA, yet my friend there has already done far more cases as a CA1 in both quantity and complexity than I had done at the same time. Although I am happy where I am at, I do regret my choice to just blow them off because of the information I received at the time.

    If you want a big academic career then you need to get into one of the bigs. However, if want to stay in Florida for your residency and your resume won't get you into the Mayo, USF might be a good choice. I belive this will only be for a year or two more because if things keep improving at the current rate and they start firing on all four they will have better match choices in the future and become more competitive.

    Sorry for the long post, but it seems to make sense to me. For three years you work along side some of the best private practice attendings in Florida who work for a living, not ones who are consumed with publishing research findings. The PD and new Chair are working with all the attendings to improve teaching skills, but you still may have to hit the books a bit more and take Jensen's course to really seal the deal on the boards, but you won't have to fight for or double up for great cases at any stage of your training. Compared to MANY programs, this is a major plus.
     
  18. Trisomy13

    Trisomy13 ultra
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    thanks for the post. i have an interview at USF coming up and have been on the fence about it, partly due to all the negative word-of-mouth on the internet. it's good to hear a different point of view.
     
  19. dindo

    dindo New Member

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    Just wanted to dispel some of the rumors on this post about UM.
    -You do not need to learn spanish to come here. Half of the people in my class do not speak spanish. Most spanish speaking patients can speak some english.
    -CRNA's are not a problem here. We do not have to fight with them for cases. The senior resident rotating as the OR manager decides who does cases everyday, with residents being put in the best cases and CRNA's filled in for the leftover cases. CRNA's are a big help because they give us breaks, lunch breaks, relieve us for lectures, and most importantly relieve us everyday at 3:00-3:30 (yes 3:00).
    -Yes, nurses are unionized and so are the residents. Our union is the reason why we have great contracts with a 2-3% yearly salary increase, $1200 educational fund yearly that rollsover if not used entirel, $1200 meal card, full health care benefits for you and the family.
    -CA3s do not double up on cases, there are more than enough cases to go around. As stated, residents get assigned first to all the cases. We do everything here including all transplants (multivisceral, kidney, liver, lung,heart), trauma, OB, neuro, etc.
    -The OB department chief (Dr. Birnbach) gives us a formal lecture everday from 7:30-10:00 while on the OB rotation. During that time, all the residents on OB are in that lecture while the CRNA's are covering the floor/csections.
     
  20. dindo

    dindo New Member

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    The program director (Dr Gallagher) at UM is still here. He has been the PD for about 1 1/2 years now. He took over for Dr Candiotti, who became the head of research. Dr Gallagher is a great PD, mentor, teacher, author and comedian (as you will all find out at the interview).
     
  21. Gator05

    Gator05 Resident
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    I'm an intern here at UF.

    First, let me address your list. It's a fantastic one, and I don't think you can go wrong with any of the listed programs.

    Second, Gainesville. Gainesville is a small southern town with a great University environment. People are friendly, lots of fun outdoorsy things to do, with 2 different coasts each ~1 hour away. Was rated as one of the best places to live in America. Great schools, great climate. It's not Miami, nor Tampa. Traffic is light. Some mention concerns for spouses not being able to find a job; it turns out not too be as much of an issue as I thought it could be, but it is a valid concern esp if you're significant other is already "in" with a big company. If you're single, I'd encourage you to stroll around campus.

    Third, caseload is amazing. Higher-level cases aren't reserved for fellows, they're valid CA-1 and -2 cases. Not unheard of at all for CA-1 to be doing a liver transplant. We're now a Level-One trauma center. Our PD personally reviews the schedule and how we're progressing with our caseload requirements in order to determine our cases. While there are standard subspecialty rotations, there are also enough cases to have them thrown into the general mix. For instance, you may have peds cases throughout your training, rather than solely on dedicated months. Our SICU is run by the Dept of Anesthesiology, with plans to open up the CTICU to be run by anesthesiology in the very near future.

    PACU holds have been a pretty big concern in the past, but we've recently devised a policy to address this. It's available on our website under "Housestaff Manual", and it seems to be working.

    The educational mission of residency is a prime consideration here. Daily lectures, supported by lots of electronic/internet-based resources. For instance, we get weekly articles emailed with commentary/discussion, and the material is pretty darn pertinent. UF invented the human patient simulator, and uses it well. We have a "transition to practice" rotation which emulates a "private practice environment" within the academic medical center, allowing CA3 residents to supervise others.

    Our leadership is solid and very well regarded both throughout the hospital as well as the anesthesiology community.

    As for a work-based program, the last count we had was an average of 62.5 hours per week. We use a night-float system, and roughly 7/8 weekend days off per month.

    So why did I come here? First, if you believe residency is where you go to learn to be a solid clinician, then in anesthesiology I figured that meant a solid caseload with a good education to support you through the said caseload. Alas, this doesn't mean residency is where you go to be miserable for four years. A wonderful climate, supportive leadership, southern hospitality and a great group of residents help towards this end. Housing is relatively cheap, the weather is warm, traffic light, the food wonderful and Disney close by (important to the wife).

    Please feel free to PM with any questions!
     

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