UIC vs. Midwestern -IL?

[nadia1984]

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As an in state student UIC is cheaper to attend but I like certain things about each school. I am not too sure about the SGL curriculum at UIC and at the same time MWU is a new school and I think they are still trying out different ideas for their curriculum. I just wanted to know what everyone thinks. Which one would you choose and why?
Thanks!

 

[wired202808]

As an in state student UIC is cheaper to attend but I like certain things about each school. I am not too sure about the SGL curriculum at UIC and at the same time MWU is a new school and I think they are still trying out different ideas for their curriculum. I just wanted to know what everyone thinks. Which one would you choose and why?
Thanks!

What's the difference in cost between UIC and MWU?

MWU-IL is a really nice school, but the problem is that its brand new and they have yet to get a clinic. Its coming next year I believe but in a way you'll only be the second batch of students coming in. So think of yourself as a 400K guinea pig. I heard that the faculty at UIC and SIU aren't as nice and the good ones left to MWU-IL. They have a sweet sim lab and everything is shiny and new. I believe in 5 to 7 years the program will be awesome just like MWU-AZ but in this stage of the game its a bit too early to spend 400K on a lot of unresolved questions. Just my 2 cents.

You can use the Search function and validate all that i've said up above. Some people on here will try to persuade you otherwise but I only used factual information.

 

[DavesNotHere]

This topic has been discussed...but to illuminate the factors for you

1.) pre-dents tend to focus on how nice a clinic looks (technology, design, modern) and judge a school based off of that...foolish. You know how much a nice sim-lab helps you to become a better dentist? not one bit...and you're only in the sim lab for 2 years, after that you'll never see it again. When you go to work as an associate and don't have everything your fancy sim lab had what are you going to do? UIC is old and definetely not fancy, but if you learn there you can adapt to any practice

2.) Patients. Some dental schools struggle to get patients for their students...UIC does not have that problem. It's located in chicago... there are a ton of patients waiting in lines (literally at times) to get in the door. When boards roll around everyone gets patients...some people pay for the ideal patients, but you don't have too. Who knows if MW will be able to get patients...they don't even have a clinic...I'd be scared to death to be the first few classes in their when boards rolled around

3.) Faculty. Only one of the clinical faculty left UIC that I'm aware of, and he's in his late 60s. 2-3 administrators left to go from being assistant deans to head deans. Have fun with those guys, I don't think anyone fought to keep them on staff. If anything, MW is getting the second string.

4.) Reputation. Almost every dentist in Chicago went to UIC, it's got a powerful network supporting it, tried and true. You apply for residencies and tell them you went to UIC that scores you points...You apply for a job in illinois and say UIC, they'll ask you about the faculty there that they went to school with or learned from...you say you went to MW and they'll ask where that is and when it opened.

5.) Getting a job. At the last CDS Branch meeting I went to MW came up and every dentist in the room agreed that because MW was for profit and didn't have a clinic that it would be turning out the worst young dentists anyone has seen. This was a room of about 20 dentists and NO ONE said a good thing about it. Regardless of whether or not this is true, it's what the dentists who will be hiring you will think.

If you only got into MWU then that's one thing...go there, be happy...hope for the best...but if you have to decide, at least for the next 5 years the option is obvious to me.

PS - wired, i wasn't trying to bash your statement, just givin my opinion

 

[wired202808]

This topic has been discussed...but to illuminate the factors for you

1.) pre-dents tend to focus on how nice a clinic looks (technology, design, modern) and judge a school based off of that...foolish. You know how much a nice sim-lab helps you to become a better dentist? not one bit...and you're only in the sim lab for 2 years, after that you'll never see it again. When you go to work as an associate and don't have everything your fancy sim lab had what are you going to do? UIC is old and definetely not fancy, but if you learn there you can adapt to any practice

2.) Patients. Some dental schools struggle to get patients for their students...UIC does not have that problem. It's located in chicago... there are a ton of patients waiting in lines (literally at times) to get in the door. When boards roll around everyone gets patients...some people pay for the ideal patients, but you don't have too. Who knows if MW will be able to get patients...they don't even have a clinic...I'd be scared to death to be the first few classes in their when boards rolled around

3.) Faculty. Only one of the clinical faculty left UIC that I'm aware of, and he's in his late 60s. 2-3 administrators left to go from being assistant deans to head deans. Have fun with those guys, I don't think anyone fought to keep them on staff. If anything, MW is getting the second string.

4.) Reputation. Almost every dentist in Chicago went to UIC, it's got a powerful network supporting it, tried and true. You apply for residencies and tell them you went to UIC that scores you points...You apply for a job in illinois and say UIC, they'll ask you about the faculty there that they went to school with or learned from...you say you went to MW and they'll ask where that is and when it opened.

5.) Getting a job. At the last CDS Branch meeting I went to MW came up and every dentist in the room agreed that because MW was for profit and didn't have a clinic that it would be turning out the worst young dentists anyone has seen. This was a room of about 20 dentists and NO ONE said a good thing about it. Regardless of whether or not this is true, it's what the dentists who will be hiring you will think.

If you only got into MWU then that's one thing...go there, be happy...hope for the best...but if you have to decide, at least for the next 5 years the option is obvious to me.

PS - wired, i wasn't trying to bash your statement, just givin my opinion

No bashing at all. You're providing concrete facts and I agree with your assessment. I would go with the school that has a reputation and established patient base. Plus I think the price alone is a major contributor of an easy decision towards UIC. I don't see how you can justify spending more $$$ on a brand new school w/o any history.

 

[nadia1984]

No bashing at all. You're providing concrete facts and I agree with your assessment. I would go with the school that has a reputation and established patient base. Plus I think the price alone is a major contributor of an easy decision towards UIC. I don't see how you can justify spending more $$$ on a brand new school w/o any history.

I don't think you are bashing Wired's statement. Wired pretty much said the same thing!😉 I have friends who go to UIC and MWU and I heard the same things from them so I agree with everything you guys said. However, my main concern with UIC is their new SGL curriculum. Even though I very much liked the idea at first, talking to my friends make me a little worried that they don't have organized lectures and I am concerned that this system doesn't prepare us for boards that well. Otherwise, I like the school very much for the reasons you mentioned and it is my number one choice.

 

[wired202808]

I don't think you are bashing Wired's statement. Wired pretty much said the same thing!😉 I have friends who go to UIC and MWU and I heard the same things from them so I agree with everything you guys said. However, my main concern with UIC is their new SGL curriculum. Even though I very much liked the idea at first, talking to my friends make me a little worried that they don't have organized lectures and I am concerned that this system doesn't prepare us for boards that well. Otherwise, I like the school very much for the reasons you mentioned and it is my number one choice.

Ye its tough with the new curriculum but the students at UIC are really the only ones who know it. Get their advice and see if its manageable, as long as you can handle it then you'll be fine 🙂

 

[aWiserFool]

This topic has been discussed...but to illuminate the factors for you

5.) Getting a job. At the last CDS Branch meeting I went to MW came up and every dentist in the room agreed that because MW was for profit and didn't have a clinic that it would be turning out the worst young dentists anyone has seen. This was a room of about 20 dentists and NO ONE said a good thing about it. Regardless of whether or not this is true, it's what the dentists who will be hiring you will think.

Midwestern is a private NOT for profit institution. That is a very important point to note.

 

[bhadda2]

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[Seamonkey Doc]

deleted because the post I responded to was deleted.

Good luck with deciding OP 🙂

 

[bhadda2]

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[DavesNotHere]

That's great that you got into dental school, and I'm sure you personally will be happy at MW, but the OP has the option of UIC and it would be crazy to choose MW over UIC at this point in time.

I just got accepted to the dental program at Midwestern University at Illinois; in addition, I graduated their Master's of Arts biomedical program and I graduated from UIC undergrad.

My two cents are overly judgmental dentists at some conference at some random place have no bearing on the production of a great dentist from any university.

This wasn't "some conference" at "some random place"...these were the heads of the Chicago Dental Society...one of the largest organziations for dentists in the world, let alone illinois. These were the most influential dentists in the state of illinois. To say their opinion doesn't matter is crazy. I didn't say they were right, but how they feel not only represents but also influences many practicing dentists feelings. I agree their opinion has no direct impact on how the grads turn out, but they definitely influence where the grads get jobs.

What I do know is that MWU has built a dream sim lab brand new

I addressed this in my post. Pre-dents seem to have a fascination with how nice a sim lab looks. While this may be a nice first impression it has no positive impact on your education or training at all. I challenge anyone to give any educational benefits to a nice sim lab. Is it icing on the cake? sure it is...but it just doesn't matter.

they have some of the most positive and caring professors I have seen from anywhere. Furthermore, they have practicing dentist from the area as part time faculty to teach too. So not only are you taught by academics, but currently practicing dentists.

This could be said of every single dental school in the united states. All clinics have part time faculty...you couldn't run a dental school without them. I'm glad the professors are caring...they were at UIC also.

I graduated UIC from undergrad, and I hate the school. I think it was a waste of my time and money to have ever been associated with that school. Here is a tidbit too if you go on campus and ask honest students they most likely hate UIC too. There was even a UICsucks.com website at one point. I could be even more specific, but I don't think its needed for my point

Why would anyone base their decision on dental schools off the same criteria as under-graduate? There's no way I would have gone to UIC undergrad...I got accepted into the Pre-Dental Acceptance program my senior year of highschool that would have shorterned UG by 1 year and would have guarenteed me a spot at UIC Dental School...I turned it down. I wanted to go to a fun UG with a good reputation. Comparing UIC UG and Dental School is ridiculous. The only things in common are geography.

which is MWU has provided everything for anyone to be a successful dentist, brand new.

Yeah...except a clinic. You're guessing on this...MW-C has not produced a single good dentist.

The type of dentist a person wants to be is up to the individual, a great or poor dentist can come from anywhere. I believe a strong student, no matter the school they attend, will always be a strong dentist. Hence the reason for the selection process. 3k applicants and 100 seats, pretty steep.

I'll agree with that...though I don't see how that would lead someone to choose MW over UIC

The school is expensive around 72k total for a year and a total of around 220k for 4yrs, but the median salary of a dentist is 200k a year. I'm not saying graduated dentist will be earning that much after graduation, but that is a number many dentist will be striving for and many exceed. So my final point is don't put a price an education. I did and that was my primary reason for going to UIC for undergrad in the first place, but after going to MWU it's like night and day in comparison.

Are you really telling the OP that price shouldn't be a consideration in choosing a dental school? I never think price should be the only factor...but to say "never put a price on education" is just ridiculous. Average starting salaries for new grads in the chicagoland area has been between 80-94k for the last 4 years...price matters

Also, just for confirmation from a statement above. Many teachers did leave from UIC, Northwestern, and Loyola University to come work at MWU. They teach in various programs from DO to dental to Pharmacy.

I'd like to know specifically which teachers came from UIC. Last time I heard it was 2 assistant deans and 1 clinical teacher (his son works at UIC btw). And no one left Northwestern or Loyola to teach at MW...those two schools closed 12 years ago.

I hope you enjoy MW I really do...but people need to understand that MW is extremely untested and is facing a lot of adversity the way I see it. I really am anxious to see how they handle clinical boards because it seems to me that it will be a nightmare for the first few classes through.

 

[white fang]

What's the difference in cost between UIC and MWU?

MWU-IL is a really nice school, but the problem is that its brand new and they have yet to get a clinic. Its coming next year I believe but in a way you'll only be the second batch of students coming in. So think of yourself as a 400K guinea pig. I heard that the faculty at UIC and SIU aren't as nice and the good ones left to MWU-IL. They have a sweet sim lab and everything is shiny and new. I believe in 5 to 7 years the program will be awesome just like MWU-AZ but in this stage of the game its a bit too early to spend 400K on a lot of unresolved questions. Just my 2 cents.

You can use the Search function and validate all that i've said up above. Some people on here will try to persuade you otherwise but I only used factual information.

 

[Seamonkey Doc]

I don't think you are bashing Wired's statement. Wired pretty much said the same thing!😉 I have friends who go to UIC and MWU and I heard the same things from them so I agree with everything you guys said. However, my main concern with UIC is their new SGL curriculum. Even though I very much liked the idea at first, talking to my friends make me a little worried that they don't have organized lectures and I am concerned that this system doesn't prepare us for boards that well. Otherwise, I like the school very much for the reasons you mentioned and it is my number one choice.

I would suggest (further) addressing your concerns to your UIC friends. They go there, and they can provide you better information/opinions about the new curriculum.
But if UIC is your first choice, go for it. It's inexpensive (compared to MWU) for an IL resident and it's in a great location. 🙂

 

[suarez 7]

I think quality sim labs are great to have. Although older preclinics like at UIC will do the job, modern facilities help you learn better. Even though you will only use it for 2 years in your life, they can make a difference in your clinical skills prior to handling patients. At Midwestern, they sometimes integrate lecture into the sim lab for more of a "hands-on" approach. i.e. the instructor projects models and skulls that gets displayed on each student's monitor. Not every school has the resources to improve the instruction of material. Overall, you get what you paid for and I'm sure students will get a great education at either school.

Average starting salaries for new grads in the chicagoland area has been between 80-94k for the last 4 years...price matters

Just curious, where are you getting this number?

 

[DavesNotHere]

I think quality sim labs are great to have. Although older preclinics like at UIC will do the job, modern facilities help you learn better. Even though you will only use it for 2 years in your life, they can make a difference in your clinical skills prior to handling patients. At Midwestern, they sometimes integrate lecture into the sim lab for more of a "hands-on" approach. i.e. the instructor projects models and skulls that gets displayed on each student's monitor. Not every school has the resources to improve the instruction of material. Overall, you get what you paid for and I'm sure students will get a great education at either school.



Just curious, where are you getting this number?

Like I said, this sounds like frosting on the cake. It's definitely cool, but I just don't see it making any difference at all...at best a convenience. The fact that MW's highlights are that sim lab...that every pre dent seems to mention is what bothers me. So much emphasis is placed on it when it's so trivial.

And I don't agree with "you get what you paid for". State schools in texas are a third of schools like BU and USC, and there's no way that money is justified. And in this case, the extra money for MW is nutso...if you got into both schools you're literally gambling with tens of thousands of dollars (maybe more) by choosing MW

I also read your previous posts and it looks like despite the fact that you were accepted at MW you still were asking about UIC acceptance for quite a while...so it looks like you agree with me and prefer UIC.

Finally, that broad number I gave was from an informal survey study done by the ISDS about 2-3 years ago. Definitely not something I'd bet my life on...but from my own experience of the 50+ dentists coming out around my time almost all fell within that range that stayed in the city.

And I want to say again, if MW is the only school you got into then you should be happy, you're going to be a dentist...but this post is comparing UIC and MW and I have a strong opinion about it.

 

[suarez 7]

Like I said, this sounds like frosting on the cake. It's definitely cool, but I just don't see it making any difference at all...at best a convenience. The fact that MW's highlights are that sim lab...that every pre dent seems to mention is what bothers me. So much emphasis is placed on it when it's so trivial.

And I don't agree with "you get what you paid for". State schools in texas are a third of schools like BU and USC, and there's no way that money is justified. And in this case, the extra money for MW is nutso...if you got into both schools you're literally gambling with tens of thousands of dollars (maybe more) by choosing MW

I also read your previous posts and it looks like despite the fact that you were accepted at MW you still were asking about UIC acceptance for quite a while...so it looks like you agree with me and prefer UIC.

Finally, that broad number I gave was from an informal survey study done by the ISDS about 2-3 years ago. Definitely not something I'd bet my life on...but from my own experience of the 50+ dentists coming out around my time almost all fell within that range that stayed in the city.

And I want to say again, if MW is the only school you got into then you should be happy, you're going to be a dentist...but this post is comparing UIC and MW and I have a strong opinion about it.

Yep I do have a preference for UIC because I went there for undergrad, but I just wanted to comment on some positives Midwestern has over UIC (devil's advocate). UIC overall is probably a better choice because it's more established. However, one could argue that UIC's new curriculum is untested and incoming students might struggle passing the boards. I have heard words from current D1s saying that many hate it, and many love it. It's not a program for everyone, they made that very clear during the interview day. I still think they will do okay on the boards though.
Overall I would choose UIC (if accepted there) to MWU just b/c it's closer to home and cheaper, but I'll be happy at either place.

You did mention about MWU and their potential patient base. I don't think it will be an issue. Within a 10 mile radius of the new clinic, there are 1.5 million people. If the school can get just a small fraction of that population there would be plenty of patients to work on.
In addition, since there is no specialty department I would imagine that many complex cases will be done by the predocs themselves. This is exactly what MWU-AZ has done. Do I know that MWU's clinical program will be seamless and well-developed when we get to that stage? No, there will probably be needs for improvement but I don't think it will be as bad as what SDN says it will be.

 

[valkairon]

Come to MidW IL. We'll play Mario Kart - If you use a blue shell we're not friends any more.

 

[aWiserFool]

Come to MidW IL. We'll play Mario Kart - If you use a blue shell we're not friends any more.

As long as it is the N64 version I'm there.

Within a 10 mile radius of the new clinic, there are 1.5 million people. If the school can get just a small fraction of that population there would be plenty of patients to work on.

This is my thinking too. I know going to a school with a brand new clinic will be an issue, but being located where it is it should not be too difficult to bring in patients. Even at schools like IU, just because you have the patient base doesn't mean you will graduate on time. Several D4's have to take an additional summer session to get all their requirements because patients flake out on appointments. Some D4's will even pay for the patients procedure just so they can meet their requirements.

 

[wired202808]

go apologize.

 

[nadia1984]

Thank you guys for your comments. I declined the offer from Midwestern a week ago. So, UIC COD here I come! 😉