UIC vs SIU

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Please choose one

  • UIC COD

  • SIU SDM


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AfriqueDMD

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Looks like everyone is doing it, so why not? A little background, I am in the military (Illinois resident) and will be using the Illinois Veterans Grant to pay for school. Basically, I go to both state schools for free! $0 debt! Both schools are great and I liked UIC's access to virtually unlimited patients, but I am not too sure about their pbl program. SIU is more traditional lecture based and they always tout their strength on both boards. They had more updated equipment compared to UIC which was surprising, but my first interviewer scared me by asking if graduating in 4 years was "rigid" for me. She explained that in the past, some students had to stay behind to meet their requirements. They also do not have the patient pool that Chicago has access to. Class size is also smaller at SIU. And go!

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Have you been to Alton? Helps explain why their board scores are so high...Go to UIC if money isn't an issue.
I know!! There was nothing to do there! I actually do not mind the peace and quiet there. I was more concerned about the patient availability.
 
I know!! There was nothing to do there! I actually do not mind the peace and quiet there. I was more concerned about the patient availability.

don't be. You'll get enough clinical experience. People come from like 2 hours away to go to the school for dental care and a lot of the patient population comes from St Louis (a big city). Im not gonna get into SIU vs UIC since it sounds like you have all the information you need to make a final decision, my biased input won't help at all
 
don't be. You'll get enough clinical experience. People come from like 2 hours away to go to the school for dental care and a lot of the patient population comes from St Louis (a big city). Im not gonna get into SIU vs UIC since it sounds like you have all the information you need to make a final decision, my biased input won't help at all


Is your biased input for UIC or SIU? Because if you are for UIC, I would like to hear your input because I am deciding whether I should go out of state or stay and go to UIC!
 
I personally think that SIU is one of the most underrated programs in the country. Having interviewed at and spoken with students from both schools, I've come away with the impression that SIU is both didactically and clinically superior. UIC certainly has the more diverse patient base, so you might get a more varied clinical experience, but in terms of pure volume, SIU wins hands down (from what I've heard, the prosth and OS exposure in particular is exceptional). Also, keep in mind that SIU has essentially zero post-doctoral training programs, meaning you won't be handing off complex cases to the residents; the opposite is true at UIC. If you were paying for your education, I would easily suggest SIU, but your grant somewhat levels the playing field.

What are you looking to do career-wise? If you want to jump right into private practice as a clinically competent GP, I'd head down to Alton and never look back. It could potentially be easier to specialize coming out of UIC, but it seems like SIU graduates who want to pursue post-doctoral education do so. I think that location plays a big role here, too. Would passing up Chicago for four years in Alton affect your ability to perform well academically, or do you not have a strong preference either way?

The point is, there are a lot of factors to consider. In the end, I'm just another pre-dent who is spouting off anecdotal evidence on an online forum. The choice is ultimately yours and yours alone to make. That said, I think you'll be fine either way. Congrats on the acceptances! 🙂
 
In regards to patients at SIU and graduating on time and patient availability:

As goes with many dental schools, your progress to graduate depends on fulfilling a long list of procedures and competency exams during 3rd and 4th year. Most students end up getting the great majority of these requirements done with the amount of patients that are assigned to themselves, however in certain circumstances people end up still needing select procedures before they can graduate. Its not so much that there is a lack of patients at the school (3 month+ new patient waitlist at the moment), but only these select things such as getting denture patients, and fixed proth requirements because they are so heavily weighted in the graduation requirements. When it gets down to the end of the year the faculty do look out for the students and do their best to make sure everyone finishes on time by getting these last requirements done but occasionally people do stay late to complete them. Whether it is the students fault for not being proactive about getting their patients in and requirements checked off or the faculty for not efficiently distributing the patients to the students is anyone's best guess in these situations and may be a combination of the two.

I will say that SIU graduates are very well rounded general dentists for some of the reasons already mentioned above. The school's philosophy is to produce general dentists so the curriculum has the full spectrum of classes such as fixed, removable, operative, endo, oral surgery, pediatric, and even exposure to implants and ortho. If you end up choosing to join the program it definitely is no walk in the park and you will be kept very busy studying and in the lab the first few years but your hard work will pay off in the end. You will graduate feeling very comfortable in the skills you've learned and feel ready to practice. A great majority of the graduates go right into practice without need for residencies, however there are also 5-10 in the class of 50 that go into specialties or advanced education.

I will say SIU often gets a bad wrap being located into Alton. If you're someone that must absolutely be in the city then maybe SIU isn't the place for you to go, but if you're not stuck on that then it ends up not being as bad you might assume. Since the class size is relatively small everyone pretty much knows everyone and you'll most likely find things to do with each other on the weekends, whether it be in St. Louis 30mins away or downtown at the bars.

If you look at the past history on this forum people that usually are relatively unfamiliar with the school will rag on it for either the location or less commonly the "lack of patients/not graduating on time." I have explained the patient situation and wouldn't consider it to be a huge problem in most cases for the majority of students. You should note that people who really have taken the time to learn about the school have a high opinion of what the school is really about instead of those trying to diss the school for having good board scores because of where its located. Seems pretty petty to me. I have rarely seen people talk negatively about the school for issues that are pertinent to becoming a competent dentist or the education you will receive there.

Best of luck with your decision- it will decide the next 4 years of your life.
 
In regards to patients at SIU and graduating on time and patient availability:

As goes with many dental schools, your progress to graduate depends on fulfilling a long list of procedures and competency exams during 3rd and 4th year. Most students end up getting the great majority of these requirements done with the amount of patients that are assigned to themselves, however in certain circumstances people end up still needing select procedures before they can graduate. Its not so much that there is a lack of patients at the school (3 month+ new patient waitlist at the moment), but only these select things such as getting denture patients, and fixed proth requirements because they are so heavily weighted in the graduation requirements. When it gets down to the end of the year the faculty do look out for the students and do their best to make sure everyone finishes on time by getting these last requirements done but occasionally people do stay late to complete them. Whether it is the students fault for not being proactive about getting their patients in and requirements checked off or the faculty for not efficiently distributing the patients to the students is anyone's best guess in these situations and may be a combination of the two.

I will say that SIU graduates are very well rounded general dentists for some of the reasons already mentioned above. The school's philosophy is to produce general dentists so the curriculum has the full spectrum of classes such as fixed, removable, operative, endo, oral surgery, pediatric, and even exposure to implants and ortho. If you end up choosing to join the program it definitely is no walk in the park and you will be kept very busy studying and in the lab the first few years but your hard work will pay off in the end. You will graduate feeling very comfortable in the skills you've learned and feel ready to practice. A great majority of the graduates go right into practice without need for residencies, however there are also 5-10 in the class of 50 that go into specialties or advanced education.

I will say SIU often gets a bad wrap being located into Alton. If you're someone that must absolutely be in the city then maybe SIU isn't the place for you to go, but if you're not stuck on that then it ends up not being as bad you might assume. Since the class size is relatively small everyone pretty much knows everyone and you'll most likely find things to do with each other on the weekends, whether it be in St. Louis 30mins away or downtown at the bars.

If you look at the past history on this forum people that usually are relatively unfamiliar with the school will rag on it for either the location or less commonly the "lack of patients/not graduating on time." I have explained the patient situation and wouldn't consider it to be a huge problem in most cases for the majority of students. You should note that people who really have taken the time to learn about the school have a high opinion of what the school is really about instead of those trying to diss the school for having good board scores because of where its located. Seems pretty petty to me. I have rarely seen people talk negatively about the school for issues that are pertinent to becoming a competent dentist or the education you will receive there.

Best of luck with your decision- it will decide the next 4 years of your life.
I wasn't trying to be petty with my remark above-- sorry if it came off that way. I agree with you, SIU is a great school. But at the end of the day UIC and SIU will both offer the opportunity to be a good dentist. The main difference between these schools is the fact that one is in a large city and one in a small town... different patient population and different lifestyle (the 16 hours of the day you aren't in school). For me, it would be tough to go to school in a small town where dental students are literally the only other students in the area and I'd have to drive 30 min to be in a more populated area. Obviously this may not be the case for the OP, I was just trying to get the point across of how different his/her lifestyle will be depending on his/her choice (meant no disrespect). Either way, the OP is in a great position, dental school paid for and admitted into two good programs. Cheers!
Full disclosure: i interviewed and was admitted to both UIC and SIU, but chose a different school that I thought was a happy balance between the two.
 
Thanks everyone for the inputs and opinions. I agree both schools are awesome and I actually felt more comfortable at SIU. I actually have 4 offers and unfortunately for me VCU is giving a scholarship that is making my head spin. I will be sure to let you all know what I decide once I look at the numbers. Once again thank you.
 
Can somebody please detail their experience with the PBL curriculum at UIC. How does it differ from a traditional curriculum and what is the honest consensus among the students at UIC?
 
Going off of what VSLE has asked for, is every single class taken in the form of PBL or are there still several classes that have the lecture format?
 
From the interview: most courses are PBL, but only a few are lecture style.
 
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#1
Also, keep in mind that SIU has essentially zero post-doctoral training programs, meaning you won't be handing off complex cases to the residents; the opposite is true at UIC. 🙂

This is a big point that you may not understand at this point in the game.
If you have an interest in, surgery for example, good luck exploring that interest at UIC because the Oral Surg. residents will skim off all the surgical cases leaving you nothing interesting to work on.
The same is true of other specialties also.

#2
I will say SIU often gets a bad wrap being located into Alton. If you're someone that must absolutely be in the city then maybe SIU isn't the place for you to go, but if you're not stuck on that then it ends up not being as bad you might assume. Since the class size is relatively small everyone pretty much knows everyone and you'll most likely find things to do with each other on the weekends, whether it be in St. Louis 30mins away or downtown at the bars.

Time Magazine once called Alton, "An old dreary river town". That may be true, but the cost of living there is half of what you would pay in Chicago! In your situation the cost of living will be you major expense for D-school.
 
If you are interested in specializing however, is it not beneficial to have residencies at your school becaue they usually accept people from their dental school and you can formulate relationships with people who can be your in??? Yes or no
 
#1

This is a big point that you may not understand at this point in the game.
If you have an interest in, surgery for example, good luck exploring that interest at UIC because the Oral Surg. residents will skim off all the surgical cases leaving you nothing interesting to work on.
The same is true of other specialties also.

I have never truly understood this argument (full disclosure: I do come from a school with a lot of specialties). I have never found my clinical experience lacking, yes residents take the overly complex cases, but there are plenty of cases to go around for us undergrads. I see some of the cases the grads are doing, and there is no way I would be able to do some of that stuff. Most practicing general dentists wouldn't be able to either, a lot of their cases are FROM general dentists. I personally like having the specialties, I learn solely from specialists or specialist residents about the procedures they are very good at. The patient pool is not a problem and I am getting plenty of cases that an undergrad dental student can accomplish and expect to do in private practice. I mean are dental students really doing full bony impacted third molars, large mandibular tori removal, 6-8 unit bridges, or molars with 6 calcified and curved canals? Enough to get competent in? If so, then I guess I'm missing out, but I also just wouldn't feel comfortable doing that sort of stuff. The residents are there to learn on tough patients that most general dentists would not treat, not patients that dental students could do. Right? Maybe I'm way off here...
 
Have you been to Alton? Helps explain why their board scores are so high...Go to UIC if money isn't an issue.

Technically Alton is closer to St. Louis than Downer's Grove is to Chicago....

Late to the game here but I would personally pick SIU, but I prefer the small town, low cost of living life. Getting into St. Louis from Alton is easy and there is plenty to do in St. Louis in your limited free time. I've been to both Downers Grove and Alton many, many times and would pick Alton any day. If it wasn't so dang expensive for out of state students, it would be one of my top choices.
 
Technically Alton is closer to St. Louis than Downer's Grove is to Chicago....

Late to the game here but I would personally pick SIU, but I prefer the small town, low cost of living life. Getting into St. Louis from Alton is easy and there is plenty to do in St. Louis in your limited free time. I've been to both Downers Grove and Alton many, many times and would pick Alton any day. If it wasn't so dang expensive for out of state students, it would be one of my top choices.
MWU IL is in downers grove not UIC. There's no reason to go to downers grove if you live in the city
 
During my interview at UIC they said that they have a 100% board pass rate.
 
Hey everyone, sorry for not updating this post. I decided to accept the offer at UIC. Best of luck to those on the wait list.
 
why did you pick UIC over SIU

I've had some really interesting conversations in the past few months regarding the status of uic in the last several years with some of my faculty. The only reason I think most of what they have told me is true is because they are all alumni of the school. I have heard a lot of not so great changes they've made at the school as a result of illinois's budget issue, for example the ridiculous number of international seats they have now compared to their class size. Also they have been reducing their class size since the late 90s starting at like 140 now down to 50 because they can't afford to pay the faculty. I have been told and have heard anecdotal evidence that preclinically and clinically you are not exposed to the same amount of experience at the school compared to SIU. I can tell you from personal experience you will be worked like a dog at SIU both preclinically and clinically. You will wax and cast your own crown, 3 unit bridge, pfm crown, make a complete denture, and pedo space maintainers just to name a few, all before even setting foot in the clinic. The clinical requirements to graduate are some of the highest I've heard of, for fixed alone you have to do minimum 30 crowns start to finish. Looking back at preclinic, casting some of the things might not be stuff youll even be suggesting to patients but it does help communicating with labs or when patients come in with one you know exactly how it was made. I don't feel like ive missed out on other important topics as a result of doing some of these "outdated" lab work. In general as dentistry has moved forward they haven't cut too much out of the curriculum, just made you the student learn more in the same amount of time. But there's no easy road to becoming a great dentist, so your future dental education is going to be what you put into it, if you find yourself up to your neck through d school with work I'd bet you're going to be a much more proficient dentist leaving than the guy that just breezed through everything.

My 2 cents
 
I've had some really interesting conversations in the past few months regarding the status of uic in the last several years with some of my faculty. The only reason I think most of what they have told me is true is because they are all alumni of the school. I have heard a lot of not so great changes they've made at the school as a result of illinois's budget issue, for example the ridiculous number of international seats they have now compared to their class size. Also they have been reducing their class size since the late 90s starting at like 140 now down to 50 because they can't afford to pay the faculty. I have been told and have heard anecdotal evidence that preclinically and clinically you are not exposed to the same amount of experience at the school compared to SIU. I can tell you from personal experience you will be worked like a dog at SIU both preclinically and clinically. You will wax and cast your own crown, 3 unit bridge, pfm crown, make a complete denture, and pedo space maintainers just to name a few, all before even setting foot in the clinic. The clinical requirements to graduate are some of the highest I've heard of, for fixed alone you have to do minimum 30 crowns start to finish. Looking back at preclinic, casting some of the things might not be stuff youll even be suggesting to patients but it does help communicating with labs or when patients come in with one you know exactly how it was made. I don't feel like ive missed out on other important topics as a result of doing some of these "outdated" lab work. In general as dentistry has moved forward they haven't cut too much out of the curriculum, just made you the student learn more in the same amount of time. But there's no easy road to becoming a great dentist, so your future dental education is going to be what you put into it, if you find yourself up to your neck through d school with work I'd bet you're going to be a much more proficient dentist leaving than the guy that just breezed through everything.

My 2 cents

do you roatte through different clinics 2nd year to gain exposure into different specialties? if interested in pediatrics, does siu provide enough exposure?
 
do you roatte through different clinics 2nd year to gain exposure into different specialties? if interested in pediatrics, does siu provide enough exposure?
You do rotations through a couple fqhcs in the area your 3rd and 4th year and will also see a lot of pedo patients at the off campus clinic in east st. Louis. SIU has their own perio program and partners with SLU for endo. In general the school has close ties with all the specialty programs at SLU so if you have any interest with any of the specialties offered at SLU you can get in communication pretty easily.
 
What do people do in their free time at SIU?
How often do people go into St. Louis?
Do you find most of the class is married/in relationships/going home to stay with family during the weekend?
Can I live in St. Louis d1-d4
 
Like I said we stay pretty busy most of the week but most people find time to work out after class before doing some studying/lab work in D1 and D2. Plenty of people spend the weekends doing whatever they like to do, people will go out to the bars in the area frequently on the nights/weekends. People go to St. Louis whenever they get a couple of friends or a group that wants to go and spend a night doing whatever there. Just recently St. Louis had Mardi Gras and the school always get a bus to take everyone there and back. I would say like 20% of my class is married and about 50% are in relationships in general. It would not be feasible to live in St. Louis D1 and D2 because of the amount of time you spend going to the lab to do preclinical work. There have been people that have lived in St. Louis D3 and D4 and just drive to school in the morning and go home at night since there isn't much obligation to stay after class to do lab work at that point.
 
What do you spend per year in alton? COL, going out, etc
 
I take out like 5k no more than 10k would suffice
 
You are alloted 20k for the year in aid
 
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