UMich (full tuition +13.5k stipend), UCSF (full tuition +3k stipend), NW (75% tuition)

[cemsc11]

Hi all! This decision has had me in tears for a month LOL especially recently. There are SO many factors to consider so any advice would be appreciated! Honestly, my heart is set at Northwestern and I told them that if they match full tuition I will commit. I am still waiting for an update and likely will be til mon/tues. However, in the event that they don't...I have this post 🙁

Northwestern (75% tuition)
PROS
- Worked here my whole gap year in dermatology, aiming to go into derm so lots of connections & love the people
- LOVEEEE city life...I really do not want to drive in med school
- 4.5 hour train/1 hour flight from home
- built a community/connections here ! love the current med students and vibe
- want to match here for residency ideally

CONS
- Can't justify 25% tuition with my other offers
- graded clinicals can be competitive
- 2 year preclinical

UMich (full tuition + 13.5k stipend)
I feel so stupid for even thinking about turning this down but my heart isn't there. I couldn't attend second look because they had a literal waitlist but also I did a summer program there and while I LOVE the school I got bored living in AA

PROS
- most money and amazing school
- 45 min drive from home...my parents kinda want me close
- 1 year preclinical
- great derm dept and match
- fun football culture! school spirit!

CONS
- I will be bored of Ann Arbor very quickly because I love fast paced environments/cities
- I don't want to drive and a car is required starting M2 year
- Lowest ranked derm dept of the 3 options (but barely obviously still amazing), mainly matches in Michigan (UMich/Henry Ford/etc)
- graded clinicals unfort
- stipend is based on fin aid, family income changed after this year so itll probably decrease slightly for M2-4

UCSF (full tuition + 3k stipend)
PROS
- literally T5 med school, #2 ranked derm nationally
- 1.5 year preclinical perfect balance
- pass fail clinicals!!!!
- lots of mentorship
- no car if I get into longitudinal tracks for clinicals, etc can work around it
- can qualify for Calfresh so 300$ in monthly food
- school seems so chill and welcoming and love the energy
- subsidized housing options
- no need to resubmit fin aid, tuition and stipend guaranteed
- everyone I work with is telling me to go here bc of the ranking

CONS
- so far from home in the midwest and college friends on east coast
- worried there's increased pressure on step 2 bc p/f clinicals
- vibe in cali is very laid back/chill, wasn't used to it
- everyone becomes a cali resident starting M2 year basically (full tuition is assuming im OOS M1 and IS M2-4), so a bit more work applying but yeah

I guess my real question is Michigan or UCSF for someone wanting to do Derm. I'm super outgoing so people have been assuring me that I'll be fine with graded clinicals but I'm also not the best test taker so I'm scared of that and feel like p/f clinicals and the UCSF title could give me protection? My heart is honestly not with either school, because I want to stay at NW, but I need to think of a backup in case they can't match full tuition (or at least increase past that 75%)...

I'm terrified of moving to Cali even tho I went to the east coast for college and was basically alone. I also just want to match in a city long term for residency (ideally Chicago, maybe NYC).

I also didn't even know UCSF was this prestigious when I applied. So this has all been kinda news to me LOL and I'm realizing how important school ranks are when it comes to matching and stuff

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[ClashRoyaleKing]

It’s a pretty clear UCSF from your pros/cons. Hopefully you get into Northwestern though.

 

[cemsc11]

It’s a pretty clear UCSF from your pros/cons. Hopefully you get into Northwestern though.

yeahhhh I just dont know if I'm being dumb and if the "prestige" at UMich is comparable to UCSF

 

[ClashRoyaleKing]

yeahhhh I just dont know if I'm being dumb and if the "prestige" at UMich is comparable to UCSF

The prestige is definitely comparable. UCSF is very well known on the west coast and UMich is well known in the midwest and northeast. I don’t think your cons for UCSF are strong enough to pull you from the school. CA does NOT feel laid back, in my opinion. SF specifically is very high paced and busy. You’ll make a bunch of new friends in medical school and will build your own support system there too. The airport is just south of the city and you can catch a flight home to visit when needed.

 

[Brownies_15]

While Mich gave u the most money, it sounds like youre the least excited about it unfort and I think quality of life is so important for med school, so i would highkey knock them out 😭

Between UCSF and Northwestern is really hard given your pros/cons list and it sounds like in the end its a $$ decision. But to ease your concerns, I think with a specialty like derm, your step 2 score will be important whether or not you have graded clinicals. I think with the UCSF name, the p/f clinicals wont hold you back, so Idk how much weight i would give to this (if i was in your shoes). I dont know much about derm rankings, but i cant imagine northwestern "holding you back" from matching derm--if they give you 100% tuition and your heart is set on it, go for it! While yes, UCSF is a tier above northwestern, prestige is much of an external thing whereas it sounds like personally youre set on NW.

Edit: I think matching into derm will be slightly easier from UCSF, however.

I think UCSF matching mainly on the west-coast is more of a preference thing (CA people LOVE CA and want to stay there and since theyre 70ish% IS, it makes sense they match back into CA. However, you would be able to match to NYC/chi with UCSF---though derm is competitive so take that with a grain of salt idk)

long story short, if NW gives you 100% and your heart is set on it, go to feinberg. if not, you will do great things at UCSF

 

[newkungfukenny]

if NW matches 110% you should go. i might argue that if your heart is set on derm and you know you have the right connections at NW it could still be worth it even if they don't fully match everything (say they do 100% tuition but no COL stipend) just because derm connections go such a long way in the match process. Plus with it being the school you want to do residency in it would just make the most sense altogether

 

[cemsc11]

if NW matches 110% you should go. i might argue that if your heart is set on derm and you know you have the right connections at NW it could still be worth it even if they don't fully match everything (say they do 100% tuition but no COL stipend) just because derm connections go such a long way in the match process. Plus with it being the school you want to do residency in it would just make the most sense altogether

yeah I totally agree! loved it there and could see myself there for sure...just thinking of a backup I guess just in case!

I feel like paying 25% tuition would be too much even though I love NW unless I'm mistaken

 

[cemsc11]

While Mich gave u the most money, it sounds like youre the least excited about it unfort and I think quality of life is so important for med school, so i would highkey knock them out 😭

Between UCSF and Northwestern is really hard given your pros/cons list and it sounds like in the end its a $$ decision. But to ease your concerns, I think with a specialty like derm, your step 2 score will be important whether or not you have graded clinicals. I think with the UCSF name, the p/f clinicals wont hold you back, so Idk how much weight i would give to this (if i was in your shoes). I dont know much about derm rankings, but i cant imagine northwestern "holding you back" from matching derm--if they give you 100% tuition and your heart is set on it, go for it! While yes, UCSF is a tier above northwestern, prestige is much of an external thing whereas it sounds like personally youre set on NW.

Edit: I think matching into derm will be slightly easier from UCSF, however.

I think UCSF matching mainly on the west-coast is more of a preference thing (CA people LOVE CA and want to stay there and since theyre 70ish% IS, it makes sense they match back into CA. However, you would be able to match to NYC/chi with UCSF---though derm is competitive so take that with a grain of salt idk)

long story short, if NW gives you 100% and your heart is set on it, go to feinberg. if not, you will do great things at UCSF

LOLLL yeah I feel like I only have UMich here still because it's suchhhh a large amount and close to home and such.

TY for the info about matching though--I totally agree!

 

[cemsc11]

The prestige is definitely comparable. UCSF is very well known on the west coast and UMich is well known in the midwest and northeast. I don’t think your cons for UCSF are strong enough to pull you from the school. CA does NOT feel laid back, in my opinion. SF specifically is very high paced and busy. You’ll make a bunch of new friends in medical school and will build your own support system there too. The airport is just south of the city and you can catch a flight home to visit when needed.

oh wow maybe it's just the POV I got from staying with my friend in SF that weekend. idk if it's the area we were in but everything felt super spaced out? like buildings spread out with lots of nature in between and such

 

[newkungfukenny]

yeah I totally agree! loved it there and could see myself there for sure...just thinking of a backup I guess just in case!

I feel like paying 25% tuition would be too much even though I love NW unless I'm mistaken

yea paying any bit of tuition here would be too much with offers like that from UMich and UCSF, but taking free tuition over a measly 3k/yr stipend is not much of a difference imo

 

[jvquarterback]

Awesome choices. Congratulations. Talk to your derm mentor at northwestern. They might prefer you head to UCSF and back for residency.

 

[Jason1211]

I might be the devil's advocate here but four years is a long time and you seem to LOVE the area of Northwestern. I might even say pick NW even if they dont match your other offers. 75% is still a LOT and, with a (hopeful) solid salary in the future - I'd pay that money to live in my ideal city surrounded by my ideal support system.

 

[cemsc11]

Awesome choices. Congratulations. Talk to your derm mentor at northwestern. They might prefer you head to UCSF and back for residency.

yeahhhh my mentor kinda told me to go to UCSF LOL

 

[cemsc11]

I might be the devil's advocate here but four years is a long time and you seem to LOVE the area of Northwestern. I might even say pick NW even if they dont match your other offers. 75% is still a LOT and, with a (hopeful) solid salary in the future - I'd pay that money to live in my ideal city surrounded by my ideal support system.

not devils advocate! my sister said the SAME thing this morning LOL said it's worth it for the mental wellness and such so im hopeful they'll match but also might highkey consider even if they slightly increase

 

[NotTheOne]

Northwestern. You’re way more excited about it, will likely match derm there, and 75% tuition off is still objectively very good

 

[Patient Ackerman]

I agree with those who are saying Northwestern. Obviously I hope NW matches full tuition but is a 25% tuition difference a big enough reason for you to forego your dream school, dream location, support system, and quality of life for the next 4 years? With attending salary as a dermatologist, you will definitely be able to pay off the loans.

Congratulations on all your acceptances though! I’m sure you’ll make the right decision that’s best for you at the end of the day 🙂

 

[cemsc11]

I agree with those who are saying Northwestern. Obviously I hope NW matches full tuition but is a 25% tuition difference a big enough reason for you to forego your dream school, dream location, support system, and quality of life for the next 4 years? With attending salary as a dermatologist, you will definitely be able to pay off the loans.

Congratulations on all your acceptances though! I’m sure you’ll make the right decision that’s best for you at the end of the day 🙂

yeah I totally agree LOLLLL everyone's making me think that honestly it's the right choice regardless bc of how excited I am. THANK UUUUU

 

[hydroflaskhomie]

As someone who is applying into a similarly competitive specialty (on the surgery side of things), you should go to UCSF here for the P/F clinicals if you are set on dermatology. I see what you're thinking re: Step 2 being weighted higher if there are no clinical grades, but that's not how it works in practice. You will have to do outstanding on Step 2 no matter where you go, Northwestern just makes it so you also have to do outstanding on every single clerkship too.

P/F clinicals allow you to continue doing research more effectively during clinical year because you don't have to study as much and over-do it on the helpfulness to try to get honors ("If I don't stay late, will this be the thing that prevents me from getting all 5/5 and I'll miss honors by 1%?").

UCSF also does have a slight edge on within medicine prestige AND you'll double your derm network. I'm sorry to say that with M3 insight from a school with P/F clinicals I strongly strongly strongly implore you to choose UCSF, even if Northwestern matches.

 

[cemsc11]

As someone who is applying into a similarly competitive specialty (on the surgery side of things), you should go to UCSF here for the P/F clinicals if you are set on dermatology. I see what you're thinking re: Step 2 being weighted higher if there are no clinical grades, but that's not how it works in practice. You will have to do outstanding on Step 2 no matter where you go, Northwestern just makes it so you also have to do outstanding on every single clerkship too.

P/F clinicals allow you to continue doing research more effectively during clinical year because you don't have to study as much and over-do it on the helpfulness to try to get honors ("If I don't stay late, will this be the thing that prevents me from getting all 5/5 and I'll miss honors by 1%?").

UCSF also does have a slight edge on within medicine prestige AND you'll double your derm network. I'm sorry to say that with M3 insight from a school with P/F clinicals I strongly strongly strongly implore you to choose UCSF, even if Northwestern matches.

but if I happen to do bad on step 2 won't it be worse if I have no clinical scores to be differentiated by?

 

[hydroflaskhomie]

but if I happen to do bad on step 2 won't it be worse if I have no clinical scores to be differentiated by?

Each PD is different, but no, it just will be bad period even if you have all honors. Generally, PDs say that clinical grades are pretty much only useful to compare within-school applicants because each school is so different in their grading schema (School A 80% may get honors, School B 10% get honors). Step 2 is make or break because it is a number that every student has that was obtained under the same circumstances and thus is used as a screening tool.

Would say UCSF + bad Step 2 would actually be a MUCH better situation because in this circumstance you know twice as many people. If Northwestern has a top derm program, they may not take you (even if you are an internal applicant) with a bad score because they have so many 10/10 people who want to match there. But if you go to UCSF and have your UCSF mentors AND your Northwestern mentors advocate for you nationwide, that greatly increases your odds of matching somewhere.

 

[sneetches]

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