UMich vs UCSD vs Kaiser

[YoungMoneyMint]

I wanted to get some advice on deciding between these schools. I’m still waiting on a few other decisions post interview, but those decisions won’t be out for a few months.

UMich:
Pros:

1. Received full-tuition scholarship and funding for additional dual-degree (I’m thinking about doing an MHA); with additional need-based grants should be full-CoA
2. One-year preclinical
3. Extremely highly ranked optho department (my area of interest) —> research being done in that department mirrors my interests
4. Easy access to Deans/faculty through my scholarships
5. Loved the people I met on my interview day, and the faculty I’ve met seem so kind —> they have a vested interest in the success of their students
6. I know a current M2 who is willing to mentor me should I choose to go to Mich

Cons:

1. AOA
2. Clinical year is graded on a curve
3. I am susceptible to seasonal depression (have spent 3 months of my life living in dreary conditions and I heavily disliked it; I’m CA born and raised)
4. Most people in the class are from prestigious undergrads; I’m pretty intimidated
5. Huge class size. I’m somebody that enjoys having my professors know my name.

UCSD: I was accepted yesterday, so no word on FA packages yet. Hopeful that they’ll match Michigan but idk how generous UCSD is with aid.
Pros:

1. Located in quite possibly the most beautiful place in the country —> my favorite past time is going for morning runs and I know this will be very doable at UCSD (this is v. important for my mental health)
2. Close to support system in CA
3. Strong Ophtho department
4. NO AOA
5. 7-week Pre-matriculation program; I’ve been out of school for a couple of years so this is important for me. I want a head-start.

Cons:

1. Housing is a ****** mess. Waitlist for a studio is over a year long, and I would most prefer not to have roommates (I sleep at a pretty early time and wake up early). Would need a lot of FA to rent off campus
2. Got kind of a cold vibe from current vibes; compared to Michigan they didn’t feel very welcoming (but maybe people at Mich are just ridiculously friendly.)
3. Nobody matched optho last year (which may just be a function of the interests of the class.)
4. No offer to do a dual-degree
5. Not as prestigious as Michigan

Kaiser:
Pros:

1. Full CoA guaranteed for all 4-years
2. Near to support system in CA
3. V small class size (48 people.) I thrive in small learning environments
4. Seems very focused on meeting every need that the student has
5. V strong Ophtho research building about 5 mins from campus

Cons:

1. I have been a Kaiser patient for several years. Need I say more?
2. I have no idea how they’re going to match
3. Not nearly as prestigious as the other two (and some of my other (hopeful) options.)
4. Got kind of a corporate vibe from the school
5. Rotations at kaisers and CHCs; not a ton of diversity in cases like you might see at an academic center

I’m leaning towards Michigan as of right now, but would appreciate any insight you all have.

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[SquidLab]

All are great options. Only reason I would go with Kaiser over UM is if you really want to stay in CA for residency. If you got a full ride to UCSD I would go there personally. Congrats on the great options and scholarships!

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

I’d take Kaiser off if you have a full ride from Michigan. If you have ties to California, Kaiser isn’t going to help you over Michigan deans scholarship.

Between ucsd va umich, if costs same, it’d be whether you value west coast location over potentially more opportunities.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

If you prefer staying in California I'd see if UCSD could match your scholarship because it's on par with UMich's longstanding reputation.

This is actually not true. UMich has a top 20 hospital system as well as top-ranked residencies and historically has had a stronger reputation with more research funding--unless you just followed US News rankings lol

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Michigan easily

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

It's undeniable that UMich has, objectively a higher ranked hospital system, historically so.

Historically and also currently.

But hospital and research rankings only matter to a certain extent, especially for a medical student...at any Level 1 trauma center with large regional hospital(s) you will see a diverse number of cases. As a result the actual numerical ranking of these schools is negliglble beyond a certain point.

Not if you're trying to get into a competitive residency. I can't comment on these two in particular, but in general schools with better hopstial systems and residency programs have better faculty/residents to teach you. Doing research in a field where the faculty are well known definitely helps with connections. Since you mentioned PD rankings you can see based on the program director scores

I haven't looked at US News rankings at all (not sure why you're assuming that) and have no idea how each school ranks there.

Because that's the only ranking where they're close, and historically the gap has been wider.

But I will say from a prospective student's perspective, program director rankings are much more important. And that correlates with historical match lists, as well. If you look at Michigan and UCSD's respective match lists, the caliber of institutions, as well as the subspecialty %'s is no different -- there is only regional bias at that point. That is why I said it all comes down to community, the culture/faculty, and your support system.

Was not able to find UCSD's match list online or via SDN. Regardless, I'm sure the students are similar in caliber (as are any t10-t20), and wouldn't be surprised if the match lists were similar. But the opportunities are probably different, especially for someone who's considering a competitive specialty as well as doing a dual degree program. I know a Dean's scholar from UMich and from the look of it, it definitely opens up doors. I don't know personally, but I wouldn't be surprised if UMich Dean's scholar (as well as Geffen scholar and other merit-based full tuition scholarships) are seen by residency directors as equivalent to T5-T10. If you're looking at another master's, UMich is a lot stronger in other grad programs, and interdisciplinary research is a lot stronger as well. NIH funding might be more to UCSD, but UMich's endowment and other grants are huge, over 15x.

That's why I said it was a decision between location and more opportunities. And as mentioned, if OP has ties to California, I doubt matching back with a dean's scholarship would be harder. If costs were the same, to me it'd depend on how much I'm set on a competitive specialty and how I can handle the winters.

 

[TheOtherAlien]

I would echo others in saying it's essentially UMich vs UCSD. Both are going to be give you an advantage in comparison to Kaiser when it comes to residency applications in a few years. I do not think it's worth arguing over the finer points of ranking and prestige between the two. US News rankings and PD rankings are not important at all in terms of residency matching outside of grouping schools into broad categories. If aid is dramatically better at one and you have few other differentiating factors, pick that one. If aid is similar between the two, then your preference with regard to location, class size, grading policies, or other peripherals will have to be the decider, and and the most important thing will be to talk to students there and figure out where you will be most satisfied and feel most confident choosing. Even if aid is dissimilar, if one of these factors is large enough (location can be huge, for instance), it may be worth considering.

From what you've written, you seemed to enjoy the vibe at UMich more than at UCSD. Reach out to current students at both places and see if you can further interrogate/confirm that feeling. If that's the case and UMich is equivalent or cheaper in cost, which is seems like it would be, then I think you have a very clear choice.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

My 2 cents based on ophtho experience.

Kaiser is out. There’s no way you will gather enough pubs let alone first authorship ones from Kaiser. All their docs are community based and no one has a substantial research portfolios. You won’t be able to publish out of that place.

UCSD and U of M are a toss up. Both are good schools with a decent amount of research opportunities. Both names are solid in medicine. You need to decide based on the balance of money and location.

 

[i-doctor]

I’m an ophthalmologist, and I graduated from U-M med school. U of M can get you some great research opportunities and definitely commands respect when applying for residencies. (However, they have a reputation of rarely taking their own medical students into their prestigious Ophthalmology residency program. So from that perspective, there isn’t a “homer” advantage). I think UCSD would be similarly respected. Kaiser would be a huge mistake.

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

To expand this discussion a little more, I was just accepted to Mayo (MN). This was my top choice coming into the cycle. Would love to hear y’all’s thoughts on how it compares to my other choices.

Pros:

1. Extremely small class size (45-50), with access to all the opportunities of Mayo
2. No AOA and no curve during the clinical year (unlike Michigan)
3. Huge emphasis on med student wellness (through sélectives and support offered by faculty)
4. I think I’d fit in very well with the class (lots of people from first-gen/state school backgrounds)
5. I’m a huge fan of the Mayo philosophy and I think it pretty perfectly encapsulates how I want to practice
6. Unparalleled clinical training
7. I’m a big fan of smaller towns vs bigger cities (I literally just need a gym, some close friends, and some decent restaurants.)

Cons:

1. Bone-shatteringly cold
2. Not as strong of an optho department as Michigan
3. No offer to do a (free) dual-degree
4. Extremely academic-oriented match list when I’m not sure if research is something I want to make a big part of my career (although this may just be a function of the interests of the class.)
5. I have a few friends that are at michigan or are going to be attending (shoutout T-dog )

@i-doctor @BritainKittenMittens @TheOtherAlien @crazydazy @eyeeye_captain

 

[sheepsitter]

Just go to mayo bro its clear you like it best

 

[i-doctor]

I would argue that your chances of matching in ophthalmology are even better going to Mayo than going to Michigan—despite Michigan having the stronger ophtho department. Mayo has a tiny class, of which probably only a handful of students even apply to ophtho any given year. Michigan on the other hand may have a dozen or more students apply in a given year. To a degree they are competing with each other nationally, and not all of them match. You’ll be more unique.

 

[eyeeye_captain]

Congrats on being such an exceptional applicant! Clearly you've worked hard and deserve the chance to go somewhere great (and you have those chances).

I'm guessing you tagged me as an ophtho opinion, so I'm happy to give one. This is also with the assumption that you don't change your mind on specialties, which is common, and I did multiple times. I don't know med school reputations as well anymore, but after reviewing the thread:

Kaiser: don't do it

UCSD: good school, pretty good ophtho department, doesn't move the needle for getting a residency off the West Coast like UCLA or USC - unless you have to be close to home and warm, I'd nix it personally for your other two options

Michigan: great school, you've got a free ride/masters if you want it (a masters really does nothing for residency and you'll probably forget most of this by the time you practice), great connections, ophtho heavy hitters who like teaching

Mayo: great school, great reputation, don't know if you got the same money there as Michigan, not as cold as you think because a lot of the city is based out of the hospital and runs around in tunnels and skyways between buildings, not as good an ophtho department so maybe less connections

You're not going to go wrong with either Michigan or Mayo if you wind up doing ophtho. I think you theoretically get more out of Michigan, but it's 4 years where you have to shine while taking care of yourself. I'll disagree to an extent about being unique - it's more about being good and being yourself, which seems to be going well so far.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

To expand this discussion a little more, I was just accepted to Mayo (MN). This was my top choice coming into the cycle. Would love to hear y’all’s thoughts on how it compares to my other choices.

Pros:

1. Extremely small class size (45-50), with access to all the opportunities of Mayo
2. No AOA and no curve during the clinical year (unlike Michigan)
3. Huge emphasis on med student wellness (through sélectives and support offered by faculty)
4. I think I’d fit in very well with the class (lots of people from first-gen/state school backgrounds)
5. I’m a huge fan of the Mayo philosophy and I think it pretty perfectly encapsulates how I want to practice
6. Unparalleled clinical training
7. I’m a big fan of smaller towns vs bigger cities (I literally just need a gym, some close friends, and some decent restaurants.)

Cons:

1. Bone-shatteringly cold
2. Not as strong of an optho department as Michigan
3. No offer to do a (free) dual-degree
4. Extremely academic-oriented match list when I’m not sure if research is something I want to make a big part of my career (although this may just be a function of the interests of the class.)
5. I have a few friends that are at michigan or are going to be attending (shoutout T-dog )

@i-doctor @BritainKittenMittens @TheOtherAlien @crazydazy @eyeeye_captain

Like others have said, it's a toss up between Mayo and Michigan. But I will say not having AOA and a curve in clinical year can be very clutch. It doesn't seem to affect Mayo's matching.

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

Thank you for all the replies everyone! They’ve been super helpful so far .

I just received my FA package from Mayo, and they’re offering 85% tuition. Michigan will likely cover my CoA for a couple of years. I’m looking at ~$115k of loans at Mayo vs <$50k at Michigan. Any thoughts?

 

[deleted1119806]

Michigan.

Btw, are you saying a 85% tuition scholarship is low?

 

[deleted1095841]

Mayo!

Not being graded on a curve in clinical year means a lot. And the tuition difference is not that much in the grand scheme of things. You're getting a huge discount at both.

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

Would it be alright if I DM you something about Michigan, Mayo, and Kaiser?

Yeah, of course!

 

[TheOtherAlien]

Thank you for all the replies everyone! They’ve been super helpful so far .

I just received my FA package from Mayo, and they’re offering 85% tuition. Michigan will likely cover my CoA for a couple of years. I’m looking at ~$115k of loans at Mayo vs <$50k at Michigan. Any thoughts?

This comes down immensely to personal preference, I think. I've heard really great things about Mayo; I have fewer personal connections with people who were at Michigan, so can't say one way or another how people there feel. As someone who is at a program that is more similar to Mayo with regard to class size and resources per student (and thus personalization per student, ability to do what you want with regard to research, etc.), I find it has been immensely worthwhile for me. It's also significant that Mayo was your top choice coming in; you liked it for a reason! As long as the reason you liked it so much holds true, that counts for a lot. That said, ~65k in loans is no joke, and both programs are very strong and are going to set you up very well for Ophthalmology. It really comes down to where you feel you'll be able to succeed best. If your gut feeling about Mayo and the opportunities/amenities there are strong enough that you feel you'll enjoy yourself significantly more and have a significantly better opportunity to prove yourself (as another person mentioned, no AOA and no grading on a curve is really, really nice for your quality of life, which I can say from personal experience), then the ~65k difference in tuition may be worth it. This is, frankly, exacerbated by your interest in a very competitive specialty, where every advantage you can take with regard to making connections, feeling well-supported during med school, etc. has the potential to make a difference. Feel free to DM me if you want to talk more personally about it!

 

[Maximus0703]

I think Michigan is the way to go. Prestige wise they are more or less the same so I doubt you would see an appreciable difference in outcome. While Mayo has a smaller class size, Michigan is the bigger entity with a lot more interdisciplinary resources, so I doubt there would be a difference in resource to student ratio. If Michigan is cheaper overall, just go there. If finances become equal (Big if), go to second look and see were you would fit better. Also, Michigan is a good enough school to were you don’t need AOA to be successful, so I wouldn’t sweat it.

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

Hey everybody, wanted to add that I just got my FA package from Michigan. In addition to the full-tuition, they’re giving me a $18k/year stipend. In addition to that, I really liked shadowing IM, so that’s another specialty that’s on the table too.