Under Grad GPA Vs. SMP GPA-PLEASE EXPLAIN

[yadave]

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😕Hey guys.

Im kind of confused now. So, I am still in undergrad and my gpa sucks pretty bad (2.2 overall right now but will get up to 2.6 by graduation or higher). However, I was wondering, what are the best courses to take for undergrad gpa? I am going into my 5th year as a double major and do not want to stretch it into my 6th year. Im hoping this acedemic year,whatever I end up making will get me into an SMP...but I need someone to explain how medical schools (preferably Allo schools) look at SMPs? How do they look at undergrad and SMP together? If your undergrad sucked raelly bad but you got an AMAZING SMP gpa (3.8+) do they really weigh that heavily? Especially if you break a 30 on the MCAT? Letme know your thoughts...

Thanks!

 

[Instatewaiter]

😕Hey guys.

Im kind of confused now. So, I am still in undergrad and my gpa sucks pretty bad (2.2 overall right now but will get up to 2.6 by graduation or higher). However, I was wondering, what are the best courses to take for undergrad gpa? I am going into my 5th year as a double major and do not want to stretch it into my 6th year. Im hoping this acedemic year,whatever I end up making will get me into an SMP...but I need someone to explain how medical schools (preferably Allo schools) look at SMPs? How do they look at undergrad and SMP together? If your undergrad sucked raelly bad but you got an AMAZING SMP gpa (3.8+) do they really weigh that heavily? Especially if you break a 30 on the MCAT? Letme know your thoughts...

Thanks!

They separate them.

The conventional wisdom is that you need a modicum of decency in your undergrad GPA to get your foot in the door (around a 3.0). Then you need a stellar performance in the SMP.

If your GPA is far off from a 3.0 you might want to think about taking undergrad courses to get it as close to a 3.0 as you can.

With a 2.6 GPA you would be pretty hard pressed to get into any SMP much less medical school.

 

[Lokhtar]

With a GPA that low, your best option is probably an offshore school, unless you can raise that GPA to above a 3.0.

 

[yadave]

ok wel ill just stay in school till i get it up to a 3.0...

btw guys, its not very nice for u to demotivate people.

im not going off shore...

the point of this forum is not to makesomeone feel more hopeless in their dreams than they already do...but thank u for the input anyways.

 

[hung]

i don't want to rub salt on your wound, but they aren't demotivating. they are just being realistic and upfront. the people on the post bacc forum are a lot nicer than the pre-allo forum. post this in the pre-allo forum and u'll free even more hopeless.

 

[yadave]

I did not write it looking for cookies or brownies. i am looking for solutions out of my current dilema. I know in my own head that I am not any less capable or intelligent as any of you other people. A GPA does not define someone's caliber and their potential. yes they are being realistic and I am thnkful for that however, I asked for suggestions on a solution. Not "oh u wont make it. u already messed it up too bad for urself" kind of attitude. I have seen threads on this same forum about people talking about getting it together with this horrible of a GPA and making it...I have a lot of other strong aspects of my application as well. I have done over five years of research and have publications, ive worked for proctor and gamble, ive volunteered A LOT, I have never taken my MCAT or GRE so I cannot even use those yet to lean on but I mean to completely and totally demotivate someone is going a bit far I think...if you have nothing to say that helps me make a systematic plan for myself, please refrain from putting your two cents in. I feel that everyone has their own route to travel on in life and the same applies to finding your way into the medical field or any field at that. We all have our own way. I am sure in the past people like me have made it....all I asked for on this thread was some REAL advice about how to GET IT TOGETHER! not how impossible it seems for me to get it togher...thanks!

 

[Lokhtar]

Do you want me to lie or tell the truth?

I can do both. You want to be a doctor? With your GPA, 99% of counselors are going to tell you it's impossible. I'm giving you options. Realistic ones at that. Basically, a school has to say no to someone with a 3.6 and a 30 MCAT and take you in their place. Why should they? You have to give them a reason, and it's not easy. I'm being honest and telling you that your best option is an offshore school. That's a fact.

Otherwise, as I said, you get get above a 3.0, and do amazing on the MCAT, you have a chance for a US school. If you can retake a lot of classes that you did badly in before, you can improve your GPA very quickly for osteopathic schools. For allopathic schools, you are most likely facing a many-year journey.

I wouldn't be doing you any favors my blowing smoke up your ass and telling you everything is OK, when it isn't.

 

[yadave]

Im not asking you to blow smoke up my ass. I am not trying to apply straight to medical school all i wanna do is get into a reputable SMP and work my ass off there and prove myself which I know I can do and thena pply to schools with a solid mcat score. I dont think that seems like too impossible of an option? After all the SMPs have to have some weight to them otherwise they wouldnt exist. I appreciate your input and am taking your advice seriously. One question though, whats harvard's program all about? what would happen if after graduation I just went there to take classes and rocked them?would they be added onto my udnergrad before I applied for the sponsorship?

 

[Lokhtar]

all i wanna do is get into a reputable SMP and work my ass off there and prove myself which I know I can do and thena pply to schools with a solid mcat score. I dont think that seems like too impossible of an option?

No, it's not an impossible option. However, the average GPA for what is widely considered the best SMP around (Georgetown) is about 3.3. So with a 2.6, you're facing an almost impossible hurdle.

You first need to get a 3.0, and then do well on the MCAT (33+). Doing this should get you into a good SMP, and then doing well in that should mean you can go to medical school in the US.

 

[DrMidlife]

...however, I asked for suggestions on a solution. Not "oh u wont make it. u already messed it up too bad for urself" kind of attitude....

Go back and review what people have told you. Nobody said anything like what you're claiming: i expect you are interpreting comments as being scathing, dismissive or belittling. I haven't seen a single scathing, dismissive or belittling comment in response to your questions. It's your choice to take a comment like "think about offshore schools" as criticism. You asked us what we thought. You can't say "I don't want brownies" and "I don't want smoke up my ass" when you've already punished us for helping you. We've given you constructive advice that no school counselor is going to give you, and we did it for free.

At this point I suggest to you that you work on humility, the thickness of your skin, and maturity. I'm quite serious. Those of us who took the time to advise you here gave you the benefit of the doubt that your GPA is the only thing wrong with your application. You've now shown us what else is missing.

Best of luck to you.

 

[hung]

ouch! that stings.

 

[future doc???]

i have to agree with the others on here and just retake classes you totaly bombed and see if even then you can get to a reputable SMP because it seems thats the kind youll need to get you into med school especially allo since you obviously dont want osteo. are you the kind that looks down on osteo because it is less prestigious??

 

[yadave]

Go back and review what people have told you. Nobody said anything like what you're claiming: i expect you are interpreting comments as being scathing, dismissive or belittling. I haven't seen a single scathing, dismissive or belittling comment in response to your questions. It's your choice to take a comment like "think about offshore schools" as criticism. You asked us what we thought. You can't say "I don't want brownies" and "I don't want smoke up my ass" when you've already punished us for helping you. We've given you constructive advice that no school counselor is going to give you, and we did it for free.

At this point I suggest to you that you work on humility, the thickness of your skin, and maturity. I'm quite serious. Those of us who took the time to advise you here gave you the benefit of the doubt that your GPA is the only thing wrong with your application. You've now shown us what else is missing.

Best of luck to you.

a post on a forum has "shown you whats missing?". Please keep in mind sir that you know nothing about me or the type of person i am just like i know nothing of or about you therefore making such statements are just making you look bitter and rude. On a brighter note, I have a very thick skin but do not entertain the rude behavior from people of any level. Entertaining this behavior does nothing but give that person initiative to do it again to someone. I do not need your pessemism or optimism to show me wether I am a good person or whether I have it in me to succeed. Yes you are correct, I did ask for advice, and as I stated earlier in my posts I am quite thankful for the advice. All I wanted to point out was the rudenss of delivery which was brought about for absoloutly no reason. This forum is a blessing for many people and I, like everyone else, am very thankful for it. I am in no means trying to offend anyone. I do not think that me voicing my opinion is wrong and this is all this is-my honest opinion of your attitude and advice. I do want to say thank you for taking the time to give me advice. maybe I did not make myself clear enough when i said that in my earlier posts because you are obviously still throwing that factor up in the air. You made a comment about my personality on the basis of a few posts on a forum...if anything that says a lot more about you than anyone in this picture.

Either way, thank you again for the advice. I appreciate the help and I wish you the best on your future endeavours.

PS- to the person who asked me about the osteo thing- no I have NOTHING AGAINST osteo schools. I think being a doctor is a great privelage and honor regardless of if you have a MD or DO at the end of your name. I would be very lucky and happy to get into any US medical school. If anything, I have a lot of respect for DOs. Where I grew up (michigan) there were many DOs and they were absoloutly amazing physicians...🙂

 

[yadave]

No, it's not an impossible option. However, the average GPA for what is widely considered the best SMP around (Georgetown) is about 3.3. So with a 2.6, you're facing an almost impossible hurdle.

You first need to get a 3.0, and then do well on the MCAT (33+). Doing this should get you into a good SMP, and then doing well in that should mean you can go to medical school in the US.

thank you very much for the advice. I appreciate it. I apologize for any misunderstanding earlier. I have noted your advice and am going to start applying it. Best of luck with everything...

 

[Instatewaiter]

btw guys, its not very nice for u to demotivate people.


the point of this forum is not to makesomeone feel more hopeless in their dreams than they already do...but thank u for the input anyways.

Dr Midlife, Lokhtar and I have all been cruising the post-bac board for years helping people out. We all have gone through the process. What we tell you we know from experience. I dont appreciate your insinuation. Take it as a compliment that I stopped from my busy 3rd year schedule to tell you what's up.

Even the absolute easiest SMPs to get into (VCU, EVMS etc) have requirements of a 2.8 or above. Provided you get into an SMP with a 2.8- which these days is a tall order- you will still be hard pressed to get into medical school from the SMP. The competition is just too great.

A GPA does not define someone's caliber and their potential.

I have seen threads on this same forum about people talking about getting it together with this horrible of a GPA and making it...I have a lot of other strong aspects of my application as well.

I think you dont understand the level of competition you will be facing. The medical school averages are approaching a 3.7 and a 31 usually from well known schools. Your current 2.2 doesnt even rank. I am not being hyperbolic or trying to disuade you from pursuing medicine. I am putting out facts. I dont know of a single school that wont screen you out prior to an interview. I am not just some clueless premed. I am a 3rd year who got in after coming out of college with a 2.9 gpa. I know what it takes to get in with a sub-par GPA. I even had a solid MCAT score. I have worked with my school's admissions office and have met multiple times with multiple deans of admission. I know the deal.

Let me demystify some of what has been said. You currently, as a rising 5th year have a 2.2. That means after 120+ credits you have a 2.2 average. So to get you to a 3.0 you need to take 137 more credits at an average of an A- (3.7). After that you will most likely need to do an SMP.
You are looking at 5 years from this point to have any sort of shot to get in performing at a level you have consistently been nowhere close to.

It is doable, but you are going to have to step it up a notch.

A good option for you would be DO schools or off shore schools.
DO schools allow you to replace grades. So if you got a D in intro bio and retake it for an A, only the A gets calculated. In MD schools the 2 get averaged. So DO schools will allow you to improve your GPA much faster b/c you dont have to deal with diminishing returns.

Off shore schools should be reserved for when you have exhausted all your options, both MD and DO.

all i wanna do is get into a reputable SMP and work my ass off there and prove myself which I know I can do and thena pply to schools with a solid mcat score. I dont think that seems like too impossible of an option? After all the SMPs have to have some weight to them otherwise they wouldnt exist. I appreciate your input and am taking your advice seriously. One question though, whats harvard's program all about? what would happen if after graduation I just went there to take classes and rocked them?would they be added onto my udnergrad before I applied for the sponsorship?

One problem you are facing at this point is that your undergraduate GPA is not high enough to get into the programs with the best linkages- or any formal program for that matter.

So as I said before, you need to push that undergrad GPA as close to the 3.0 mark before you will get into an SMP or a formal post-bac program. You will have to do this through an informal program.

I believe the harvard program you are talking about is for those who have not taken the pre-recs yet. They have a very high GPA average (3.7ish) so those programs are beyond your reach.

Any undergraduate level class will be averaged in with your undergraduate GPA. An SMP or graduate programs for that matter are separated.

PLAN
Take undergraduate level courses until you are close to a 3.0
Take the MCAT (only good for 3 years, keep that in mind)
Apply to SMPs and to med school
You probably wont get into medical school so you will do an SMP
Do well in SMP
Apply to medical school again

 

[yadave]

Dr Midlife, Lokhtar and I have all been cruising the post-bac board for years helping people out. We all have gone through the process. What we tell you we know from experience. I dont appreciate your insinuation. Take it as a compliment that I stopped from my busy 3rd year schedule to tell you what's up.

Even the absolute easiest SMPs to get into (VCU, EVMS etc) have requirements of a 2.8 or above. Provided you get into an SMP with a 2.8- which these days is a tall order- you will still be hard pressed to get into medical school from the SMP. The competition is just too great.




I think you dont understand the level of competition you will be facing. The medical school averages are approaching a 3.7 and a 31 usually from well known schools. Your current 2.2 doesnt even rank. I am not being hyperbolic or trying to disuade you from pursuing medicine. I am putting out facts. I dont know of a single school that wont screen you out prior to an interview. I am not just some clueless premed. I am a 3rd year who got in after coming out of college with a 2.9 gpa. I know what it takes to get in with a sub-par GPA. I even had a solid MCAT score. I have worked with my school's admissions office and have met multiple times with multiple deans of admission. I know the deal.

Let me demystify some of what has been said. You currently, as a rising 5th year have a 2.2. That means after 120+ credits you have a 2.2 average. So to get you to a 3.0 you need to take 137 more credits at an average of an A- (3.7). After that you will most likely need to do an SMP.
You are looking at 5 years from this point to have any sort of shot to get in performing at a level you have consistently been nowhere close to.

It is doable, but you are going to have to step it up a notch.

A good option for you would be DO schools or off shore schools.
DO schools allow you to replace grades. So if you got a D in intro bio and retake it for an A, only the A gets calculated. In MD schools the 2 get averaged. So DO schools will allow you to improve your GPA much faster b/c you dont have to deal with diminishing returns.

Off shore schools should be reserved for when you have exhausted all your options, both MD and DO.




One problem you are facing at this point is that your undergraduate GPA is not high enough to get into the programs with the best linkages- or any formal program for that matter.

So as I said before, you need to push that undergrad GPA as close to the 3.0 mark before you will get into an SMP or a formal post-bac program. You will have to do this through an informal program.

I believe the harvard program you are talking about is for those who have not taken the pre-recs yet. They have a very high GPA average (3.7ish) so those programs are beyond your reach.

Any undergraduate level class will be averaged in with your undergraduate GPA. An SMP or graduate programs for that matter are separated.

PLAN
Take undergraduate level courses until you are close to a 3.0
Take the MCAT (only good for 3 years, keep that in mind)
Apply to SMPs and to med school
You probably wont get into medical school so you will do an SMP
Do well in SMP
Apply to medical school again

Thank you very much for the advice. I was not intentionally insulting you all. As you said, you are actually a 3rd year and I value your advice greatly. I will get my undergrad gpa up as much as possible first and then go frmo there. Thank you again for the help and I hope everything goes great for you in the future.

 

[DTrMnd 2Be A MD]

I am in a similar situation with yadave. The only difference is that I was originally admitted to undgrad as a biochemistry major with aspirations of being a Neuro-Surgeon. I very soon became burned out and changed majors to Computational Mathematics and then Computer Science. Before long I looked up and time was up and my parents were hassling be about why I am not graduating at the end of 4yrs. (JD and MBA/JD). So i had a lot of fun in undergrad and now I am paying for it because I have so much work ahead of me to raise my gpa from an astounding 2.014 from UCR.... The only good thing about this is that my last two quarters of school in yr 5 were 3.2 and 3.15 with 17 units in each quarter. I recently over the last year or so have regained my desire to be a Surgeon again. I am currently a software Engineer who is bored by his hobby that became his career.

Realistically i recently spoke with the admissions coordinator at USC for the Post-Bac Pre Med Program. I expressed my desire to enter their Post Bac program and then upon completion attend Keck.

While speaking with her she was very nice about telling me that the competition for their program was very fierce, and that her recommendation would be to complete the rest of my pre-reqs via an extension program at UCLA or any other 4yr institution and then obtain a Master's of Science in Biology, Bio-Chemistry or Chemistry. She also noted that I would need to pretty much get all A's in every course that I took.

Here is my question: Since I left my biochem major before completing all of my pre-reqs how would the undergrad gpa be computed. I have a slew of higher level math classes that I assume will not come into play for med school admissions. I took 1st quarter Bio twice getting a D the second time, I took 1 quarter to physics and got a D and I have taken 2 quarters of in-organic Chem both good for C's. Meaning that i would have to take 2 more quarters in Bio(Really 3 to up the first quarter class), 1 quarter in in-organic Chem, 3 quarters of Physics at the next higher level and 3 quarters of O-Chem. I was also planning on taking Genetics and vertebrate anatomy while working on my Masters if necessary.

Here is the kicker: I graduated in 2002 with a BA in Liberal Studies-history and Business. and I am currently 29. I have figured that the earliest that I would be able to enter med school would be at the age of 32 which is perfectly fine with me. Since I have a lot of hard work ahead of me.


Also: that Master's degree in Bio-Chemistry and Molecular Biology only takes a year to complete the course work with 36 units of real classes and only a few units as research symposiums. I am meeting with them on friday to weigh my options with their program.



Is it really that much out of reach ....

 

[philly419]

😕Hey guys.

Im kind of confused now. So, I am still in undergrad and my gpa sucks pretty bad (2.2 overall right now but will get up to 2.6 by graduation or higher). However, I was wondering, what are the best courses to take for undergrad gpa? I am going into my 5th year as a double major and do not want to stretch it into my 6th year. Im hoping this acedemic year,whatever I end up making will get me into an SMP...but I need someone to explain how medical schools (preferably Allo schools) look at SMPs? How do they look at undergrad and SMP together? If your undergrad sucked raelly bad but you got an AMAZING SMP gpa (3.8+) do they really weigh that heavily? Especially if you break a 30 on the MCAT? Letme know your thoughts...

Thanks!

did you ever get into med school? im just curious because this was an interesting thread....you seemed pretty adamant about overcoming your struggles in undergrad to get into medical school. I'm just curious if you followed through on your own stated goals....If you did succeed on gaining acceptance into medical school how did you do it and how rough was the journey? If you did not follow through on your stated goals what stopped you and what changed your mind?