Under represented minority?

[riceman04]

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No flames please, just wanted to share an anecdote.

i'm married to a black african and he thinks it's interesting how african americans refer to themselves as that. he always likes to ask if they would like to live in Africa. most say "yes." then he explains the culture and they're all like "maybe not."

for example,
could you live with your parents at 30?
could you obey them for the rest of your life?
could you share all your income with your extended family?
could you eat with your hands off of one communal plate with your 5 closest friends?
could you work in the fields at peak hours of the day with no tools other than a hoe for 5 days a week? did i mention for no pay?

I have always been told that black africans feel that they are superior to black americans...Does your hubby hold that specific sentiment?

 

[LovelyMD]

I have always been told that black africans feel that they are superior to black americans...Does your hubby hold that specific sentiment?

I know Caribbean Black people who feel this way too.

Re: Phoenix's last post, I completely agree.

Wow, this thread went way off course, huh. lol.

 

[ladyluck3]

this is kind of unrelated, but i thought i'd chime in for the heck of it:

i've always thought that disadvantaged status is underrated, and that it should be weighed more heavily than URM status. i know quite a few students who led incredibly privelaged lives and got the added bonus of "URM points" (don't flame) while i slaved away at a 40hour/wk job to pay for school and couldnt afford to take MCAT prep class, etc.

just food for thought.

 

[AlexMorph]

this is kind of unrelated, but i thought i'd chime in for the heck of it:

i've always thought that disadvantaged status is underrated, and that it should be weighed more heavily than URM status. i know quite a few students who led incredibly privelaged lives and got the added bonus of "URM points" (don't flame) while i slaved away at a 40hour/wk job to pay for school and couldnt afford to take MCAT prep class, etc.

just food for thought.

i agree with you, sometimes the URM status unfairly helps those who need no additional help, while a disadvantaged non-URM doesn't get the same benefit

i'm not even white, but i've seen plenty of whites slave away to finance their education and in the end it count for almost nothing (don't flame me either)

 

[Meatwad]

i agree with you, sometimes the URM status unfairly helps those who need no additional help, while a disadvantaged non-URM doesn't get the same benefit

i'm not even white, but i've seen plenty of whites slave away to finance their education and in the end it count for almost nothing (don't flame me either)

Proponents of the current system would probably argue that being a black student from an affluent family still has it harder than a white student working 40 hours a week and balancing school. They'd argue that society itself discriminates against those black students, and even though they are priveledged, they are privy to more hardships because of their race. So even though that white student is working very hard and fits the disadvantaged status, they still have it "easier," than a black student, due to the fact they have been borne into a more disadvantaged lot in life.

I don't agree with this, but I could see some trying to use this in an argument to keep the status quo.

 

[Revenant]

I always thought they should base advantages more on socioeconomic status rather than "race". But w/e, I don't make the rules, nor do I particularly care. The system is what it is, and I don't expect a drastic change any time soon.

 

[AlexMorph]

Meatwad, you bring up an excellent point. Some people will use the argument you put forth to their advantage and play the "race card". This is utter [expletive deleted]. Low socioeconomic status is tougher to overcome than race. It's just that most of the times these two are tied together, but the affluent black family doesn't face as many problems as the poor white family. Kudos to you and Revenant for calling it like it is.

 

[DoctaJay]

you do know not all of africa is like that.

. I was thinking the same thing. I've flown into a couple of African cities in route to mission trips and in some I thought I was in Baltimore; they had sky scrappers, BMWs littering the street, etc. Its only in the country where life is like that.

I always thought they should base advantages more on socioeconomic status rather than "race". But w/e, I don't make the rules, nor do I particularly care. The system is what it is, and I don't expect a drastic change any time soon.

The AAMC has a goal, and that goal is to increase those groups that are underrepresented in medicine. If someone truly is economically disadvantaged you get equal or more consideration than a URM applying.

This is kind of an aside, but its something I thought was worth mentioning. My mom was born in New York in 1958, probably around the same time as many of your parents since I just finished applying and we are all around the same age unless you are a non-trad. At that time, because of the racial climate of New York, she could be born at any hospital. If she was born at the exact same time, just a little more south in Maryland, she could only have been born at specific black hospitals. Now things changed quickly after she was born across the country, but 1958 wasn't too long ago at all. There is an underlying bias that still perpetuates in many URMs everyday life. I'm not saying that folks don't take advantage of the URM benefit, but many more people need it than you think.

And I really hope that people aren't rushing to falsely list themselves as URMs on their application. Most schools in the country really aren't going to have more than 20 URMs in the whole class. So as a URM, you are competing for those spots. I am almost confident that if 75 well qualified URMs applied to Yale, that all 75 wouldn't be accepted. Its just the name of the game. As a non-minority applying, you are applying against a larger subset of people, but you are also applying for more spots. What every pre-med on SDN should worry about is how THEY are going to sell themselves in the best way to get into medical school. Lots of people get in on legacy and other methods, so everyone has their "leg up". But if you focus on yourself as an applicant, making sure that you have great ECs, a good MCAT and GPA, and good people skills, you should be fine.

 

[alwaysaangel]

Meatwad, you bring up an excellent point. Some people will use the argument you put forth to their advantage and play the "race card". This is utter [expletive deleted]. Low socioeconomic status is tougher to overcome than race. It's just that most of the times these two are tied together, but the affluent black family doesn't face as many problems as the poor white family. Kudos to you and Revenant for calling it like it is.

Don't think of it as being because life is tough for minorities so they get a free pass. Whether it was originally put in place for that reason or not.

Think of it this way, and it makes a lot of sense and is far less infuriating. Black people deserve the opportunity to have a doctor they feel they can relate to, often this may be by having a black doctor. Native Americans deserve the same. As do Hispanics and hell, even whites. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not there are cultural barriers that interfere with appropriate health care and we should be doing whatever possible to break those down. (no I'm not saying every black person HAS to have a black doctor - but they should have the option).

By that logic, if 8% of Americans are black, then 8% of doctors in America should be black. If 2% of Americans are native American then the same percentage of doctors should be.

Think of it as being for the public, not for the individual going to medical school.

 

[dancinRN1022]

Don't think of it as being because life is tough for minorities so they get a free pass. Whether it was originally put in place for that reason or not.

Think of it this way, and it makes a lot of sense and is far less infuriating. Black people deserve the opportunity to have a doctor they feel they can relate to, often this may be by having a black doctor. Native Americans deserve the same. As do Hispanics and hell, even whites. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not there are cultural barriers that interfere with appropriate health care and we should be doing whatever possible to break those down. (no I'm not saying every black person HAS to have a black doctor - but they should have the option).

By that logic, if 8% of Americans are black, then 8% of doctors in America should be black. If 2% of Americans are native American then the same percentage of doctors should be.

Think of it as being for the public, not for the individual going to medical school.

I don't think I could have said this better myself...I completely agree with you... This is the point of URM... to increase the amount of under represented minorities in medicine! people have stated that URM is BS...but that isn't true, it's a known fact! there is a huge disparity in health care today! but why?? the science is there... the technology is there...the knowledge is there, for example... why are AA more obese than other cultures?... why are AA women still becoming infected with HIV/AIDS at a higher rate than other groups? obviously medicine is missing something, people aren't listening for a reason... I think because this one size fits all approach to medicine doesn't work all the time... yes for the most part we are all the same inside...it doesn't matter what color your surgeon you have... however to change behaviors, you need to be able to relate to your patient on a different level, on a more personal and social level, and they need to be able to relate to you...
now should minority ppl only go to minority doctors?? OF COURSE NOT!! I know someone will ask that silly question to disprove my point! but people should have the option and right now a lot of people don't have that option!

poor OP..thought they were asking a simple question! I don't know if you are a URM...but someone else is right...I think AAMC simply looks at the amount of doctors in comparison to the population of that group in this country...huge difference = URM... relatively equa l=not a URM

okay good luck everyone on interviews!

 

[alwaysaangel]

why are AA women still becoming infected with HIV/AIDS at a higher rate than other groups?

Actually they've pretty much established the cause of this is the down-low community among black men (Down-lows are men who have sex with men but don't identify as gay or bisexual). They tend not to use protection because they don't acknowledge their homosexual acts as such. Then they bring the disease home to their wives/gfs.

CDC paid a ton of money a few years back to try to figure out what could be done to get these men to better protect themselves. I think they're still putting all the data together.

 

[just thoughts]

Agreed, that was pretty stupid on his part. I'm assuming the guy was White. Even in South Africa he'd be considered White, not Black African.

but, if he was born in Africa, he'd still be African whether he's white or not.

i just had to go back to this for a minute. outside of a few countries, the US being one of them, if you are born in the country, but not of it's ethnic group, that makes you a national of that country. for example, let's take a person born in Brazil to Japanese parents, which we can all agree (i hope) makes them ethnically Japanese. does that mean that person is now Brazilian? no, it means that they are an ethnically Japanese Brazilian national.

so...if you're a white person born SOMEWHERE in an African country, you are still ethnically Caucasian, and (depending on the laws of the specific country) a national of that country.

 

[just thoughts]

Actually they've pretty much established the cause of this is the down-low community among black men (Down-lows are men who have sex with men but don't identify as gay or bisexual). They tend not to use protection because they don't acknowledge their homosexual acts as such. Then they bring the disease home to their wives/gfs.

CDC paid a ton of money a few years back to try to figure out what could be done to get these men to better protect themselves. I think they're still putting all the data together.

that's pretty interesting because the last that i've heard is that the CDC jury is still out on this one...

"The phenomenon of men on the down low has gained much attention in recent years; however, there are no data to confirm or refute publicized accounts of HIV risk behavior associated with these men.What is clear is that women, men, and children of minority races and ethnicities are disproportionately affected by HIV and AIDS and that all persons need to protect themselves and others from getting or transmitting HIV."
This was taken from http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/aa/resources/qa/downlow.htm

at the end of it all, people need improved, substantial and culture specific HIV/AIDS education and prevention methods. i have a lot to say about this topic, but i'll leave it here for now.

just thoughts...

 

[dancinRN1022]

that's pretty interesting because the last that i've heard is that the CDC jury is still out on this one...

"The phenomenon of men on the down low has gained much attention in recent years; however, there are no data to confirm or refute publicized accounts of HIV risk behavior associated with these men.What is clear is that women, men, and children of minority races and ethnicities are disproportionately affected by HIV and AIDS and that all persons need to protect themselves and others from getting or transmitting HIV."
This was taken from http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/aa/resources/qa/downlow.htm

at the end of it all, people need improved, substantial and culture specific HIV/AIDS education and prevention methods. i have a lot to say about this topic, but i'll leave it here for now.

just thoughts...

thanks just thoughts...I knew that the above post wasn't right, I just haven't had the time i look up and reference this... I know it happens but the huge disparity can not be attributed simply to this reason... I agree with you totally and I have a feeling medical schools do too...hence...why they are recruiting people who can deliver this culture specific care... all cultures need to have themselves properly represented in medicine...

why is this so hard for people to agree too??... and there isn't enough time to fix the educational system completely so that maybe one day all of our numbers will look exactly the same... so for now schools look at the whole package even if the numbers are a little lower at times...

Mel

 

[alwaysaangel]

that's pretty interesting because the last that i've heard is that the CDC jury is still out on this one...

"The phenomenon of men on the down low has gained much attention in recent years; however, there are no data to confirm or refute publicized accounts of HIV risk behavior associated with these men.What is clear is that women, men, and children of minority races and ethnicities are disproportionately affected by HIV and AIDS and that all persons need to protect themselves and others from getting or transmitting HIV."
This was taken from http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/aa/resources/qa/downlow.htm

at the end of it all, people need improved, substantial and culture specific HIV/AIDS education and prevention methods. i have a lot to say about this topic, but i'll leave it here for now.

just thoughts...

Of course theres more than one attribute - that was kind of my bad on how I worded it. But they do believe it is a big part of it. I worked with one of the organizations that was running the study.

Maybe because the study isn't done yet they haven't come out with the info but my organization alone got several million dollars from the CDC to run a survey asking black men in the bay area questions to determine if they were down-lows and then to determine what could be done to help them protect themselves. I know it happened - I did the survey...

So whether they're admitting it or not yet, they do (or at least did 2 years go) believe it has a substantial effect. I don't have the manual that instructed our organization on what we were doing anymore, but the beginning was a discussion on why they think its a big part of why black women get HIV more than other races and what led them to believe that.

I'm not arguing that we don't need doctors to fix the cultural disparities I'm just saying that the HIV one has a lot to do with specific communities.

EDIT: Or maybe it has been published and they refuted the belief that it was a driving force. After running the survey I never really kept up on it. But the CDC either did or does believe its part of the reason.

 

[just thoughts]

i definitely hear what you're saying. my own thoughts on the matter are partly due to the fact that i haven't seen a breakdown of who the black women in question are. and i'll admit that i haven't looked for that breakdown, so anyone with that info is welcome to post it.

some of my questions:
where are these black women socioeconomically?
where are they geographically? (i've read that quite a bit are disproportionately located in the rural South.)
where are they educationally?
where are they with regard to access to quality healthcare?
how many of these women have had experiences with IV drug users, are users themselves or have/had sexual relationships with non-black men that may be on the "down low?"

not trying to be funny or anything, but the Bay Area is a beast all its own with regard to sexual identity, relationships, and even, interracial dating. hence my question about geography - does the "down low" theory hold water in rural Alabama? maybe it does. i'm just asking.

also, i have to say that the media did an incredibly good job of selling the "down low" and associating it with black men who have sex with other men. the reality is that "down low" activities exist everywhere...former NJ Gov McGreevy and that dude from N-Sync might know a bit about it.

i know that you weren't limiting the "down low" to just black men, but i just wanted to put that out there. my statement also speaks to the possibility of some black women choosing to engage in sexual relationships with men of other races/ethnicities that might be "on the down low." (even though black women are the racial and gender group least likely to date outside the race, it still happens.)

sorry to the OP!

just thoughts...

 

[DoctaJay]

Ok folks, the thread has completely strayed from its original purpose. If we don't stay on track, answering the OPs question, then we'll have to close the thread.

 

[Sir Buckethead]

I have a friend who was born in ireland and she isn't white! she checks other and puts black irish... because she isn't african american either!

Rendered additionally confusing by the existence of white "black irish".

What a mad mad world. I think its time we outlaw intraracial marriages so everyone becomes indistinguishable and I can stop being irritated by things like egyptians applying as african american.

 

[BrazilianfutrMD]

but, if he was born in Africa, he'd still be African whether he's white or not.

So look at is this way. If he was born in America he'd still be Amerian whether he's white or not??

Sorry but in American some people are considered African-American, Asian- American etc. Just as there is no one characteristic of an American there is no one characteristic of an African. The US like Africa, Brazil, etc is full of different races and ethnicities.

I agree with the previous posts about preferring Black over African American. That term was coined to be politically correct and a change from calling people Negroes, but is not very valid as before.

In response to people's posts about being a URM or not you have to remember that the AMCAS definition of URM is african americans, asian american, mexican americans and mainland puerto ricans and these are considered the largest populations of minorities in the US. For those of you who are other minorities ex. Persian you have to remember that your population may not be large enough yet in the US to be considered underrepresented in medicine. Underrepresented in medicine means that in consideration of the population of a certain group the number of those in the population in medicine is limited.

 

[njbmd]

Every African-American is NOT Black and every black person is NOT African-American. If anyone is remotely interested whether or not they are an under-represented minority in medicine (and having an identity crisis) they can contact AAMC and state their case.

 

[da me ka don]

No flames please, just wanted to share an anecdote.

i'm married to a black african and he thinks it's interesting how african americans refer to themselves as that. he always likes to ask if they would like to live in Africa. most say "yes." then he explains the culture and they're all like "maybe not."

for example,
could you live with your parents at 30?
could you obey them for the rest of your life?
could you share all your income with your extended family?
could you eat with your hands off of one communal plate with your 5 closest friends?
could you work in the fields at peak hours of the day with no tools other than a hoe for 5 days a week? did i mention for no pay?

U are just tripping right there. What kinda black African is your husband and what rural area did he live in?

 

[freelove]

U are just tripping right there. What kinda black African is your husband and what rural area did he live in?

Umm... that doesn't sound too off-base too me. It sounds a lot like the area where my parents are from. They come from Central Africa. Alot of ppl talk about how industrialized Africa has become, but honestly, most of it isn't and is still very rural and traditional.

 

[SnarkysMachine]

With all due respect to folks who have already commented, I wouldn't be so quick to beat up the 'white" African American dude! This happens more often than you realize. While doing my undergraduate work (I am hoping to start med school next fall.) for another degree one of my closest friends was a white swimming phenom from South Africa. Obviously, with his blond hair and blue eyes he was read as "white". However, he really didn't understand the concept of "African American" as it is constructed in the US, as he had no cultural basis for it. He used to mark "African-American" until we sort of pulled him aside and explained what he was telling people about himself.

And the Egyptian thing is really tricky. It really depends on whether or not your physical characteristics fil the social construction of "blackness". There are some Egyptians who consider themsslves white and are perceived accordingly. Some do not.

I would guess if nobody in the past has questioned your right to claim "blackness" then you're pobably being read as black so the point is moot.

Also, could someone explain what "acting white" means?

 

[litldime]

Umm... that doesn't sound too off-base too me. It sounds a lot like the area where my parents are from. They come from Central Africa. Alot of ppl talk about how industrialized Africa has become, but honestly, most of it isn't and is still very rural and traditional.

I think everywhere in africa is pretty different... I used to live there so I can compare... I lived better there than I do now and both my parents make over 6 figures

 

[Smiley2012]

Don't they have a section on the AMCAS where you can list your work activities? So if you really haven been working for 40/week and going to school at the same time, then it will be reflected....also, some secondaries ask you to re-list your activities...

 

[Smiley2012]

[AlexMorphMeatwad, you bring up an excellent point. Some people will use the argument you put forth to their advantage and play the "race card". This is utter [expletive deleted]. Low socioeconomic status is tougher to overcome than race. It's just that most of the times these two are tied together, but the affluent black family doesn't face as many problems as the poor white family. Kudos to you and Revenant for calling it like it is. ]Don't they have a section on the AMCAS where you can list your work activities? So if you really haven been working for 40/week and going to school at the same time, then it will be reflected....also, some secondaries ask you to re-list your activities...[/quote]

 

[freelove]

I think everywhere in Africa is pretty different... I used to live there so I can compare... I lived better there than I do now and both my parents make over 6 figures

Statements like this annoy me. Africa is a huge continent... there are some rich people, but there are ALOT OF POOR PEOPLE... who NEED HELP. Just because you lived well in Africa and were probably sheltered from all the ugliness that is so prevalent there does not negate or really have anything t do with anything I said in my last post.