Undergrad decision-need help!

[FutureVet33]

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Hi everyone,
I am currently a senior in high school planning on pursuing a career in veterinary medicine. My ultimate goal is to go to UC Davis for graduate school, but I need a little advice on which direction to take. Right now I have about 2 choices (and I've never been more confused about anything in my life😕):

1) Go to Community College for 2 years and then apply to vet school. This specific community college has a pre-vet program that will allow me to apply to vet school after i finish my pre-reqs in approximately 2 years, without a baccalaureate degree.

Here is the link just incase you want to take a look at the pre-vet handbook: http://www.piercecollege.edu/faculty/shapirls/Prevethandbookopeningpage.html

According to Pierce College's Pre-Vet Handbook, Pierce College (community college) and UC Davis have an agreement with each other for this program. I read on the UC Davis website that students accepted into the school without a baccalaureate degree will be granted a B.S. degree in veterinary science at the end of the 2nd year of the vet program.

2) Go to a Cal State Univ. for 4 years and major in Biology, then apply to vet school. However, it doesn't have an animal science program.
(Another option would be to go to Community College for 2years and then transfer to UCLA, for example, to finish up my undergrad in Biology)

At first, I was thinking of getting a degree in Biology in order to have a versatile major, but I then learned about Pierce College's 2 year program. Has anyone here tried this before and is there any downside to the 2 year program? The 2 year program sounds great, but I'm uncertain if it is a wise choice not to get a 4 year degree.
I tried contacting the colleges directly in this matter and I am still waiting to hear back, but I would like to hear some more opinions.

I apologize for the lengthy questions, but any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance🙂

 

[PrimalMU]

Why not attend UCLA and focus on pre-vet pre-requisites your freshman and sophomore year and then apply to vet school? If you don't get in, you will already be at UCLA and can continue your work towards a biology degree. I can't imagine it being any more difficult than the CC option as far as finishing all your pre-reqs in two years.

On the other hand, it might be cheaper tuition-wise to go to CC the first two years and, if you don't get into vet school, transfer to UCLA to finish a 4-year degree. Of course, you should make sure that the classes you take at CC will transfer and count towards a biology major at UCLA...

 

[FutureVet33]

Well if I want to transfer from CC to UCLA, I would take different courses and stay in the Honors Program, which is almost a guaranteed transfer to UCLA. I'm not sure if I would be able to fit all the pre-vet courses in, but if I want to get a 4 year degree, then I will take this route.

Have you heard of anyone who has applied to vet school without a baccalaureate degree? Because, cutting 2 years off school sounds great, but in case I change my mind about going straight to vet school, I might have trouble getting into UCLA since I didnt take the honors program originally.

 

[FutureVet33]

Now that i re-read your response, I understood the point you were making about going straight off to a university then trying to apply to vet school, etc. Unfortunately, I wasn't accepted into UCLA, so I am considering my other options. I guess my question now would be whether it would be better to work my way into UCLA or go to a Cal State Univ. before I apply for vet school-and which one will give me a better chance of getting in?

 

[charismarl]

I think both Cal State and UCLA would set you up well for vet school. Admissions people at vet school want to see that you can handle a heavy course load so I would just push yourself hard either way you go. Some schools say it doesn't matter where you go for undergrad but UCD might (I'm not sure about their admissions process). I would imagine that it would be a much better idea to attend a good school (pre-vet program or not...lots of school don't have animal science/pre-vet programs!) than attend an accelerated 2-year program. I think it would be a better idea to go to a four-year college and graduate with a degree (biology or not) so if you don't into vet school your first year applying you won't be dead in the water. The percentage of people who get in the first time is pretty low so consider that. Also, remember that lots of people change their minds on their career goals throughout college so set yourself up for other possibilities. If you do go the 2-year route...you beter have a TON of clinical/lab experience to back yourself up b/c almost everyone else you're going to be competing with to get into vet school will have a 4-year degree. Why set yourself up to be behind everyone else from the start?

 

[adOggy07]

Hey FutureVet,

I was reading through the link that you gave us for the pierce college thing and was reading this part..

"What are Your Chances of Being Accepted?
From 1997 - 2001, twenty-seven Pierce College students applied to veterinary school; twenty-two were accepted. These were exceptionally good years for our program. We hope to continue this success and hope you will understand when we demand excellence in performance and many hours of work. We hope to prepare you for the marathon (veterinary school). You cannot expect to be prepared for a marathon by running hundred yard dashes (taking one class at a time). On the same thought, if you over extend yourself by taking too many classes (try and limit your class load to 16-18 units/term) you will be worn out by the time you apply or unable to maintain that high GPA that will make you shine on your application.

At UC Davis evaluation of applicants are based on: Overall GPA = 11%, science GPA = 5%, last 45 units (taken in two years or less time) GPA = 12% or a total of 28%. GRE scores (general aptitude test) = another 28%. 20% = the interview. 6% = references. 18% = an essay written about why the student wants to be a veterinarian, veterinary experience, understanding of the veterinary profession, extracurricular activities (such as the pre-veterinary club). Note: These percentages may vary slightly year to year."

Now... considering that information, it sounds like you have a great chance of getting into vet school going that route JUST SO LONG AS you can keep good grades and get good experience in the vet med field. Accepting 22 out of the 27 is not bad at all.

This was the only part in the handbook that I saw that referred to UC Davis... and I'm not sure if Pierce College actually has an "agreement" with UC Davis... it sounds like they were using UC Davis as an example. It sounds like from what I read that you can apply to any vet school you want. Is that the case? I'm not sure if you know more about it than what I read.

IF that were the case... If it were myself in the situation, I'd be worried if other vet schools that I was interested in applying in would be familiar with the success and nature of the program. Sure, it sounds great.. but to the schools that aren't familiar with it.. they might think that you lack the experience that a student with a B.S. or B.A. degree might have. If you can, you should try to find out how many other students doing this program have applied to other schools... which schools... and whether they were accepted or not. Of course it's still not impossible... Depending on how you present yourself, you could most definitely still get into the school of your choice. Nothing is impossible! 🙂

There are LOTS of other things to consider... One of these are... Do you think you might change your mind about what career path you desire as time goes on?

--> I get the feeling that most undergrad students change their majors and minds regarding what they want to do for the future... I sure did! I wanted to be an English major before I realized I wanted to be a vet.. I think part of the reason WHY vet schools like applicants with Bachelor's degrees is because the student has finished that portion of their life and it shows the applicant had to take a wide range of classes that may have perked their interest in other areas. It also seems that as more time goes on, it only solidifies the what the student really wants to do. Of course, it shows the schools how the applicant handles their studies and all that as well.

Another thing I want to mention.. going to college as an undergrad student is a unique experience that you may want to gain. When I hit college, I realized how amazingly different it was from high school. In terms of studies, people, etcetera etcetera... everything was so different. In a good way I thought! If you get to dorm at the school you go to.. I see it as a once in a lifetime experience.. just another part that only adds to your diversity as an applicant and who you are as a person.

It sounds like no matter what direction you go in... as long as you fare well as a student and diversify yourself as a vet school applicant, you should get into vet school no matter what. If you do choose to go to a UC or Cal State, you would just go to vet school 2 years later versus Pierce College. So it may just be a question of time... but really.. what's 2 years in the long run? Not very much.

One LAST thing.. if you haven't got any clinical experience or been in a vet hospital environment, I hugely recommend it. There are so many things about being in that environment that may be totally different from what you imagined... and really it can only be gained with experience. Trying to handle an angry cat, doing anal glands, getting bit, scratched, etcetera etcetera... something every tech/vet student/vet will probably experience in their lifetime... being in a clinic will give you a taste of this experience and will show you if this is something you want to commit your career and life to!

Sorry this was SO long! I just wanted to give you some pointers that you may or may not have considered.
AND... MOST OF ALL, GOOD LUCK!!!!

 

[VAgirl]

"What are Your Chances of Being Accepted?
From 1997 - 2001, twenty-seven Pierce College students applied to veterinary school; twenty-two were accepted. These were exceptionally good years for our program. We hope to continue this success and hope you will understand when we demand excellence in performance and many hours of work. We hope to prepare you for the marathon (veterinary school). You cannot expect to be prepared for a marathon by running hundred yard dashes (taking one class at a time). On the same thought, if you over extend yourself by taking too many classes (try and limit your class load to 16-18 units/term) you will be worn out by the time you apply or unable to maintain that high GPA that will make you shine on your application.

At UC Davis evaluation of applicants are based on: Overall GPA = 11%, science GPA = 5%, last 45 units (taken in two years or less time) GPA = 12% or a total of 28%. GRE scores (general aptitude test) = another 28%. 20% = the interview. 6% = references. 18% = an essay written about why the student wants to be a veterinarian, veterinary experience, understanding of the veterinary profession, extracurricular activities (such as the pre-veterinary club). Note: These percentages may vary slightly year to year."

Reading adOggy's post made me think of something. You should email or call UC Davis's admissions office to get their take on this program. It is possible that Pierce College is trying to promote themselves by reference UC Davis. It's not clear how folks at UC Davis (esp. vet school adcom) view Pierce, so I'd ask them. They're really pretty busy right now, but try emailing Kim O'Bryan. She's usually really responsive.

Another thing that occurs to me from adOggy's post is perhaps you should find out from Pierce College what the stats are of # of applicants vs. # admitted from Pierce to UC Davis vet med from 2002 to present (their quoted stat is 1997-2001). Were those just remarkably successful years? (Like the weightloss commericals where people lose 150lbs and they flash "results not typical" at the bottom?) Have things dramatically dropped off in recent years? If the success rate of applicants from Pierce to Davis has gone down significantly since 2001, does this reflect a change in the program? Loss of good faculty? Overall increase in competitiveness of applicants to Davis? A change in Davis's perception of the program? These questions might also be useful to ask to Kim O'Bryan at Davis.

Just some things to think of. From my perspective, I'd work on a plan that involves getting a Bachelor's as Plan A. If you're able to swing applying to vet school early (as a soph or jr) along the way, then by all means do so. But I think having planned a little further down the road will be useful. Especially because interviewers at vet school interviews sometimes ask students what they'll do if they don't get in. It'd be a good idea to have a solid answer to this question.

Good luck!

 

[pupsforseeing]

I grew up about 20 minutes from Pierce, so I am fairly familiar with their program. It sounds pretty good if you are 100% sure you want to do the vet thing and just want to expedite the process of getting to vet school. At one point, I strongly considered going that route. I ultimately decided against it because I went to Moorpark for 3 years while in high school and wanted to experience something other than another community college. Now in retrospect, I'm extremely glad I did.

As someone mentioned, half of undergrad isn't the classroom knowledge that you gain, but what you learn outside the classroom. The breadth and depth of relationships with peers and professors, extracurricular activites, intramural sports, etc are just completely different (at least in my experience) at a residential 4-year school. I wouldn't trade the opportunities I've had outside the classroom over the last 3 years here for anything in the world...even getting to vet school more quickly 🙂

Additionally, I am glad I've gone the Bachelor's route because I feel like it's allowed for a more well-rounded education than if I had just taken strictly vet school pre-reqs. I've gotten to dabble in areas of science and humanities that I wouldn't have had I just stuck to pre-reqs (how many pre-vets do you know who will spend a summer in Europe studying the Reformation?!) and these are certainly areas that I won't learn much about for the next 4 years in vet school. It's also opened my eyes to a lot of possibilities for what I might want to do with a veterinary degree (missions work, etc.).

Also, don't be too worried about schools that don't have animal science majors (at least from the standpoint of being admitted to vet school). Tons of people (myself included, I'm a molecular biology major) get admitted to veterinary school without ever taking a single animal science course 🙂

Just some things to think about. Not to say you definitely shouldn't do it, because it might be the perfect fit for you, but for me personally it wasn't the right choice. Good luck!

 

[adOggy07]

Have you heard of anyone who has applied to vet school without a baccalaureate degree? Because, cutting 2 years off school sounds great, but in case I change my mind about going straight to vet school, I might have trouble getting into UCLA since I didnt take the honors program originally.

About this.. most vet schools do take a small amount of people without Bachelor's degrees. I think I've seen.. about 1 - 5 applicants accepted without a Bachelor's degree for each school's stats.

Now that i re-read your response, I understood the point you were making about going straight off to a university then trying to apply to vet school, etc. Unfortunately, I wasn't accepted into UCLA, so I am considering my other options. I guess my question now would be whether it would be better to work my way into UCLA or go to a Cal State Univ. before I apply for vet school-and which one will give me a better chance of getting in?

Vet schools really don't give any preferential treatment to students that went to UC's versus students that went to Cal States. If you think about it... a lot of the vet schools out there are actually "state" schools: Iowa State, Kansas State University, Colorado State, Michigan State, Ohio State, etc! And most of those schools have corresponding universities: University of Kansas, University of Colorado, University of Michigan, University of Ohio, etc. And there are also a lot of vet schools that go the opposite way too.

In no way am I saying that their system in other states works like it does in California... I honestly have no idea. I was using that as a example to show how most states do have a "state" school versus a university.

Now the question is, is one type of school better than the other? I would have to say not at all. If you went to any first year vet program, I'm sure you would find a mix of students from both types of schools. Even when the vet schools post their stats.. they do not separate students who came from a university versus students who came from a state school. They just tally up the numbers of students who have Bachelor's degrees... which can come from both.

Hope that helps!!

 

[FutureVet33]

I'd like to thank everyone for replying so quickly, I think I am going to take most of your suggestions and go for a 4 year degree.

try emailing Kim O'Bryan. She's usually really responsive.

I emailed her yesterday, and I am waiting for her to respond. I also emailed a teacher at Pierce College (who wrote the Handbook), but I think his response was a bit bias, because he basically gave me an answer that has Pierce College's interests in mind. I believe the response from UC Davis will give me a better idea.

Well, I think I will go to a Cal State Univ. instead of going to CC and then transfering to UCLA, for example (which may not even be a guaranteed transfer). I was thinking of going to a local Cal State, which would also give me time to get a job in a vet clinic. However, I was accepted to Cal Poly Pomona, but it is about an hour away from my house (I might not be able to get a dorm there), so I might not have enough time to get a job.
Is Cal Poly Pomona a better choice than a regular Cal State? Also, someone told me that Cal Poly and Western Univ. have some sort of agreement with each other, is that true? I haven't heard much about Western Univ. so I don't know how it compares to UC Davis.
(Sorry if I keep making things complicated, I just want to make sure I have a good plan set up for my future. Your opinions are really helpful🙂)

 

[adOggy07]

Is Cal Poly Pomona a better choice than a regular Cal State? Also, someone told me that Cal Poly and Western Univ. have some sort of agreement with each other, is that true? I haven't heard much about Western Univ. so I don't know how it compares to UC Davis.

I went to Cal Poly Pomona for my undergrad and they do not have an agreement with Western University. However, I know a good amount of people that got into Western University from Cal Poly Pomona.. but not because of any agreement, but because of their own hard work and determination.

In response to your first question.. I don't think Cal Poly Pomona is a better choice than other Cal State programs. I'm not sure about the other Cal State programs, but Cal Poly Pomona does offer an animal science major and a prevet major... which some people may see as a advantage, while others view it as a disadvantage.

To tell you the truth, it really doesn't matter what your degree is in. You just need to take the courses required at the various vet schools. (gen chem, ochem, bio, biochem, nutrition, etc.)

Western University and UC Davis are both vet schools, but their teaching styles differ. Western University is a program based on PBL (Problem Based Learning). Some other vet schools also implement PBL into their program, however PBL is used for the entirety at Western University. If you want to know more about Western's program, I suggest you look over their website.. http://www.westernu.edu/xp/edu/veterinary/principles.xml

Basically, there are no traditional style "lectures" given as Western. For the first 2 years, you work in groups in PBL and go from case to case and learn how to break the case down... from these PBL sessions, you as a student are responsible for studying and researching the information you need to know for each case. UC Davis focuses largely on lectures for teaching. Similar to how most undergrad courses work. Which is better? It totally depends on your learning style as a student.

Western also puts you into the clinic atmosphere right away even as a first year. Most traditional type vet schools put you in clinics in year 4. So you'd probably get a lot more hands on experience at Western. Again, which is better? And again, the answer is that it totally depends on you as a student.

You should research each school's programs to decide ultimately where you want to go. Good luck!!

 

[FutureVet33]

Thanks for all your advice adOggy. Western Univ. sounds really interesting and I think I might enjoy the PBL system. They have an open house on April 5, which I am hoping to attend. I will definately do more research into the different vet schools to find my perfect match.

I still have a few more weeks to think about where to do my undergrad. I keep changing my mind about what I am going to do. Cal State would probably be alot easier for me, but I have always dreamed of going to UCLA and I believe a degree from there may be "higher up" or "worth" more than one from Cal State. If I stay in the honors program at a CC in order to transfer to UCLA, I will still be able to work at a clinic and it is fairly close by. I think UCLA will better prepare me for vet school, and if anything does go wrong when applying to vet school(I hope not!), I will have a UCLA degree under my belt. I know alot of people who tranfered to UCLA from CC, so I know I will have a good chance.

I'm going to start applying to nearby vet clinics/hospitals to start getting some more experience. Last time I applied, I was 16 and I think people underestimated my abilities. Although I was hired by one clinic, and after buying scrubs and everything, on my first day of work, they told me they "talked to their lawyers and I was too young to be around any kind of radiation (xray machine) or any other harmful things." Anyways, that's another story for another day. I'll be 18 in a couple of months, so hopefully I'll have better luck this time around.

Thanks again for everyones' input, and I wish you all luck in the future