DVM/ PhD decision?

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HorseObsessed

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I have questions for people who have decided to get a dual degree:
How did you decide to pursue it?
How much research experience did you have to get in?
Have you regretted the degree?
What are the options post-grad? Are there ways to be a practicing clinician and a researcher, or do you have to pick?

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I have questions for people who have decided to get a dual degree:
How did you decide to pursue it?
How much research experience did you have to get in?
Have you regretted the degree?
What are the options post-grad? Are there ways to be a practicing clinician and a researcher, or do you have to pick?
I am in the final year of a concurrent-track dual program.

I was working in biomedical research as a technician prior to my starting vet school and knew that I was interested in the intersection of research and clinical practice. At the time, I was advised to consider a dual program by some of the eventual members of my committee; others advised that I do the PhD later. Obviously I didn't listen to them :laugh:

My program offers the option of doing the degrees concurrently (2.5 years DVM --> PhD --> 1.5 years DVM) or consecutively (DVM --> PhD); I chose to do it concurrently because I knew I wanted to pursue internship and residency and didn't want to have 4 years of gap time between when I was on clinics and when I was trying to match.

You need to have a good solid amount of research experience. A dual program is an enormous commitment and you have to have a clear idea of (1) why you want to do it, (2) why you need to get both degrees at the same time to accomplish your goals, (3) why you need both degrees at all for what you want to do. I think there are quite a few people who discover that they could do what they're interested in with either of the degrees, not necessarily both at the same time.

I don't regret getting my PhD, but I do somewhat regret doing a dual degree program to get it, in all honesty. I got lucky because I'd already been working for my PI prior to vet school and had some large, high-impact projects already going that ended up being the main part of my thesis; I don't think that the time constraints of a dual program really allow for very high impact research otherwise, nor is the funding for dual degree students worth it, depending on your program (some programs it very much is). In hindsight, I wish I had done a residency/PhD instead, but there are upsides to having my PhD already too. I'm not kicking myself for doing things the way I did, but I can look back on it and think that I might have been happier doing it other ways, and while the time issue wasn't a factor for me because I had these projects in the works, I think you can do a much more thorough body of work in a PhD that is NOT part of a dual program. Having my PhD now has helped me be a better clinician and hopefully will help to open some doors for me, so like I said, it's not like it's all bad or anything.

There are plenty of options post-grad, to the point that I'm not going to list them all, it would be too lengthy. But you will almost certainly need to pick which area you want to focus on more, clinical practice or research, because it will affect the kind of post-grad training you pursue, positions you seek out, etc. You are unlikely to have a 50/50 split in doing both. Other splits, like 70 research/30 practice, are more realistic.
 
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Disclaimer: Literally just starting DVM/PhD.

Program is 2 yrs DVM -> PhD -> 2 yrs DVM

Overarching reason for pursuing both degrees: Interests in both vet practice and research, and felt being on the borderline between the two would enhance both aspects for me. Also talking to professors who have gigs similar to what I want to do in the future, it was suggested that I would need a PhD to get that kind of position.

Why combined program: Financials is probably the #1 thing that makes the benefits outweigh the costs for me. I feel that leaving your DVM class and returning 4+ years later is an immense cost, and I don't think the other program benefits (faculty support, making connections, help funding PhD, etc) outweigh it alone.

My Research Experience: I was involved with labs throughout my 4 years of undergrad and applied/interviewed over my gap year when I was working in research at a vet school.

More research experience is usually better. Most of the successful DVM/PhD applicants I know took 1+ gap years, usually doing research. People can get in straight out of undergrad, but it will be harder. Some programs are fairly against taking people without gap years (Davis for sure, maybe others also).
 
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Thank you both so much.
I was interested in research early in undergrad, but nervous, so I only just started research in my summer before junior year. I'm not in a lab that I'm very interested in, but I'm still enjoying the research-- bench work and reading primary literature. When I think about doing research I'm really interested in (infectious disease! Post-procedure infection! Vector-borne illnesses) I get very excited. I was initially planning on applying this summer but am now considering a gap year to get more research experience and make this decision. I am right next to the Texas Medical Center and at an R1 university so there's lots of options out there for me.
However, I know I enjoy the clinical side of stuff.
LOVED working for an equine GP and was even more interested when I got to shadow and inpatient/ surgical facility. But I see that there's a lot of overlap between speciality and research (is that true?) so I'm wondering if that may be the place for me.
 
Another question: how realistic is it to go the DVM pHD path and NOT end up working with rats/ mice/ vertebrate models in terminal studies?
 
Thank you both so much.
I was interested in research early in undergrad, but nervous, so I only just started research in my summer before junior year. I'm not in a lab that I'm very interested in, but I'm still enjoying the research-- bench work and reading primary literature. When I think about doing research I'm really interested in (infectious disease! Post-procedure infection! Vector-borne illnesses) I get very excited. I was initially planning on applying this summer but am now considering a gap year to get more research experience and make this decision. I am right next to the Texas Medical Center and at an R1 university so there's lots of options out there for me.
However, I know I enjoy the clinical side of stuff.
LOVED working for an equine GP and was even more interested when I got to shadow and inpatient/ surgical facility. But I see that there's a lot of overlap between speciality and research (is that true?) so I'm wondering if that may be the place for me.
One thing that neither Matt nor I mentioned is that at many programs (though not his, I don’t think), you can matriculate into the dual program after you’ve completed one or more years of the DVM. The BI Summer Scholars research program that exists nationwide really benefits DVM students this way; you spend the summer in a lab and for some aspiring DVM students who might be interested in a PhD, it’s a good way to identify a lab and maybe a project. It is, IMO, a slightly easier approach than trying to get admitted as an incoming first year - most programs will only admit 1-3 people through that route. I also think it sets you up for success better because of having a mentor identified who has funding, rather than going in cold.

At least at my program, there is no financial benefit to being in the dual program for years 1-2 of the DVM, so there’s really no downside to getting your feet wet first.
 
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Another question: how realistic is it to go the DVM pHD path and NOT end up working with rats/ mice/ vertebrate models in terminal studies?
That has nothing to do with a DVM/PhD and entirely to do with what kind of research you’re doing.
 
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I did my DVM first then my PhD and if I had to do it again I’d do it consecutively again unless there’s significant financial help in doing them concurrently. I was able to concentrate on each degree separately that way. But there are financial benefits to dual degrees if you can get your DVM funded too. I would not advise a non funded PhD IMHO.

That said I would highly recommend that you search for DVM/PhD and PhD treads as the considerations for getting both degrees should be highly evaluated with regard to your situation and goals before undergoing them.

For your questions:
1. I wanted to help forward biomed research and wanted to go both clinical and research as I liked both during undergrad. I was in research settings starting my second year undergrad continuing through vet school with minimal during clinics and none during an internship. I then went straight PhD as I was offered a PhD program in a large human med hospital and the only residencies were path and lab animal. I guess I just wanted to concentrate on my PhD.
2 and 3. I guess I’ve intermittently regretted both degrees but I now work two jobs that are completely different from each other which offers an escape for both. So I think I’ve ended up in a better place than just having either degree but it took 10 years to get here. Graduated from DVM in 2005 and PhD in 2014.
4. Is hard. I don’t think many research positions are open due to the downturn in the economy which is what I experienced in 2014. One advantage of two degrees is you can apply to more jobs and fall back on either. Downfall is if you are out of research or clinical work a while it can be hard to get back in. It’s easier with clinical but still can be hard. I had dreams of being a PI. The truth is that a PI is a hard life and you often have to have post docs galore and difficult to get research experience beyond your PhD. Some got work right away. Some it took years. It took me like 5 years for me to break into a research position after my PhD.

Feel free to pm me. I work in both a research publication position and a clinical position.
 
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Disclaimer: Literally just starting DVM/PhD.

Program is 2 yrs DVM -> PhD -> 2 yrs DVM

Overarching reason for pursuing both degrees: Interests in both vet practice and research, and felt being on the borderline between the two would enhance both aspects for me. Also talking to professors who have gigs similar to what I want to do in the future, it was suggested that I would need a PhD to get that kind of position.

Why combined program: Financials is probably the #1 thing that makes the benefits outweigh the costs for me. I feel that leaving your DVM class and returning 4+ years later is an immense cost, and I don't think the other program benefits (faculty support, making connections, help funding PhD, etc) outweigh it alone.

My Research Experience: I was involved with labs throughout my 4 years of undergrad and applied/interviewed over my gap year when I was working in research at a vet school.

More research experience is usually better. Most of the successful DVM/PhD applicants I know took 1+ gap years, usually doing research. People can get in straight out of undergrad, but it will be harder. Some programs are fairly against taking people without gap years (Davis for sure, maybe others also).
Leaving my class behind was one reason I decided to do my degrees separately. Cudos to you that do that!
 
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