Undergrad Major

[In It To Win It]

I know this has been beaten to death, and the general concensus is that med schools don't care what your major is, but would they look down on a major in respiratory therapy with a minor in biology? I ask this because I have read that they do somewhat look down on nursing majors because they feel that those that went to nursing school with intentions to going to med school took someone's spot. Oh, by the way, this is my first post on SDN. YEAH!

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[In It To Win It]

anyone?

 

[emttim]

I know this has been beaten to death, and the general concensus is that med schools don't care what your major is, but would they look down on a major in respiratory therapy with a minor in biology? I ask this because I have read that they do somewhat look down on nursing majors because they feel that those that went to nursing school with intentions to going to med school took someone's spot. Oh, by the way, this is my first post on SDN. YEAH!

I would assume that Respiratory Therapy degrees are viewed in the same light as Nursing degrees considering the remarkable amount of similarity between both the job and the degree.

 

[In It To Win It]

I would assume that Respiratory Therapy degrees are viewed in the same light as Nursing degrees considering the remarkable amount of similarity between both the job and the degree.

So, it would be a bad idea?

 

[Cegar]

It wouldn't be the best idea.

 

[Isoprop]

it's probably better to get a straight B.S. or a B.A. than a technical degree.

edit: not to say that RTs and RNs can't go to med school.

 

[In It To Win It]

I understand. It's not that I'm not interested in biology, it's just that I thought the clinical experience would give me a leg up.

 

[AmyWho]

Glad you bring up the subject! I've been worrying about my major of nursing being a big no no on my application. I have never been interested in nursing, to be honest. Just got in the program because I didn't want to be 1 year behind for my graduation. Plus, I kind of thought having some medical related background would help in someway, even if it's nursing.
Anyways, several MDs I've talked to all agreed that they tend not to choose nurses or nursing students if they got options. They believe that we might change your career later as what we are doing now. Plus, the society do need more nurses than doctors. They just don't want to pick nursing students or nurses over others because they don't want to loose nurses.

 

[Isoprop]

the externships of RTs for instance won't count as ECs since its part of your curriculum. sure you'd get some clinical exposure, but you'd have to do the volunteer/shadow thing anyway.

plus, they'd question why you went got a technical degree if your aim was medical school. it'd be a different story ifyou got a BS in RT, practiced a couple of years then decide to go for med school.

 

[In It To Win It]

I see. Hmmmmm..... I'm glad I found this out now!

Oh....I almost forgot. I am also interested in business. How would a major in business be interpreted?

 

[Isoprop]

glad to help

 

[Cegar]

As business majors are always interpreted.

With dubious glares and great mistrust.

 

[In It To Win It]

So I guess the best decision is to go with what I am mainly interested in (biology/biological sciences) and stick with it.

 

[Cegar]

Your major really doesn't matter.

A healthy interest in science is fine. Taking higher level gentics/biochem/molecular biology courses will not hurt at all and will, at most institutions, give you a slight leg up.

As far as your major goes, it does not matter. Pick a major that you will enjoy and do well in.

 

[Isoprop]

business is fine but if you go bio...

you'd get more opportunities for research in bio
the premed prereqs are aligned with your major requirements
easier to ask for LORs in small upperdiv science classes than huge prereq classes
easier to prepare for mcat


so i'd go bio unless i wasn't interested in it. if i was happier as a history major, i'd do that instead. remember, happy usually = successful.

 

[In It To Win It]

Your major really doesn't matter.

A healthy interest in science is fine. Taking higher level gentics/biochem/molecular biology courses will not hurt at all and will, at most institutions, give you a slight leg up.

As far as your major goes, it does not matter. Pick a major that you will enjoy and do well in.

Thank you! I really appreciate your and everyone's help an insight. Another thing is that when I looked at the course catalog for a major in biology at my school, some of the classes just seemed so boring. Also, the classes for biomedical engineering, which I am also interested in, seem so difficult and, may I say, out there.

 

[Cegar]

Thank you! I really appreciate your and everyone's help an insight. Another thing is that when I looked at the course catalog for a major in biology at my school, some of the classes just seemed so boring. Also, the classes for biomedical engineering, which I am also interested in, seem so difficult and, may I say, out there.

I'm heading into bioengineering. They aren't so bad.

They're pretty bad.

But not that bad.

 

[In It To Win It]

I'm heading into bioengineering. They aren't so bad.

They're pretty bad.

But not that bad.

What exactly do you mean by this, if you don't mind my asking?

 

[In It To Win It]

Any biology or biomedical engineering majors in the house who care to comment on their courses?

 

[ryandote]

.

 

[Cegar]

What do you expect us to tell you about the courses in your biology major other than what you can read in the course descriptions?

Yeah, ecology and plant bio suck. Deal.

If you are really looking to get the angle on things, choosing your major just isn't the place to put your effort. It doesn't matter too much. Now it's time for the cliche: do something you are interested in, and learn enough science to rock the MCAT.

edit: econ and bio double major

Screw that. Plant bio is the best.

Where else will you find things like gibberellin?

 

[HeadMed]

Any biology or biomedical engineering majors in the house who care to comment on their courses?

I have a B.S. and M.S. in bioengineering. In my program, our coursework consisted of a mix of physio and EE (for the core at least). Obviously your success and satisfaction with these courses is COMPLETELY dependent on YOU.

However, I can tell you that this education has prepared me very well for medical school. All the physio I have seen in the first year is a repeat. In fact, much of what I covered in undergrad went into greater depth (this being a product of the instructor being a medical school profressor and slightly disenchanted with the limits the medical school put on his syllabus). Additionally, anatomy was also included in my undergrad. We did a couple days of gross dissection and a significant amount of modeling work (biomechanics). Finally, although the EE is not directly attributable to the med coursework, it has proven to be very useful in laboratory research. My master's thesis was in medical imaging (specifically devices). This work introduced me to radiology (which is HUGE in anatomy and pretty much every field in medicine) and the physics/theory behind all of the imaging modalities (not simply that MRI causes spin......more complex issues concerning gradient fields to distinguish particular voxels and collective effects of excitation patterns of the central and gradient magnets).

So.......I obviously loved the coursework and I think it is excellent preparation for medicine. As a practical matter I would suggest loading up on some humanities as you don't want to be portrayed as that engineer that thinks Unix, Java, and C++ are spoken languages.

 

[In It To Win It]

So which major prepares you best for the MCAT?

 

[Moshe Rabbenu]

Screw that. Plant bio is the best.

Where else will you find things like gibberellin?

Ew. Plants are so boring. Plant bio has got to be the worst class ever.

 

[Cegar]

Are you kidding?!

Plants are supermen.

 

[HeadMed]

So which major prepares you best for the MCAT?

MCAT prep course.

Similarly, the best prep for USMLE step I is a review book. Might I suggest: First Aid.

 

[Isoprop]

which part of bio do you not like? if it's the plant/ecology stuff, you can probably avoid those classes with a microbio degree. it's pretty medically related (virology, pathogencity, etc.) and helps with the bio portion of the mcat.

 

[In It To Win It]

which part of bio do you not like? if it's the plant/ecology stuff, you can probably avoid those classes with a microbio degree. it's pretty medically related (virology, pathogencity, etc.) and helps with the bio portion of the mcat.

It's defiantly the plant stuff!! I was so sick and tired of it in AP Biology. I didn't hate it though. It was more of I know that I need to get it to successfully pass the class. I mean, I wouldn't mind having to take it in college.

 

[Moshe Rabbenu]

Are you kidding?!

Plants are supermen.

Please. Plants are aquamen at best.

 

[Isoprop]

i definitely found microbio to be the most "non-plant" bio. even plant pathogenicity covers plants very superficially. of course, if you're in any bio major, it's pretty hard to avoid plant 100% (e.g. plant bio in general bio, photosynthesis in biochem, etc.).

 

[Cegar]

Please. Plants are aquamen at best.

Algae*

 

[Quadratic]

Any biology or biomedical engineering majors in the house who care to comment on their courses?

Not a bioengineering major, (still flirting with chemical) but can respond:

After interviewing professors and other biomed engineer undergrads, I've come to the conclusion that it's probably not best to do a major in it. Why? Because in most cases, actual bioengineering doesn't start until senior year (or late junior year, if one is lucky.) That said, the first three years are basically generalistic engineering courses that draw from all of the specialties (Mechanical, electrical, chemical, etc). I'd say pick one of those if you're interested, and revisit bioengineering later (its totally doable and you'll find that the majority of bioengineering faculty have their degrees in these fields). Biomed engineering is also not a good fallback degree (heard the argument here before). Just looking at my university's statistics alone, only 60% of bioengineers applied for jobs, and only 30% found any (and we don't know if those jobs deal with bioengineering or not). So it's rough out there assuming you don't go to med school/professional school.

That said, it you want to broaden your knowledge base and want to learn bits of everything, I guess its ok. But the entire point of being an engineer is solving problems. I don't think bioengineers really have that capacity at the undergraduate level because they've been stretched too thin.

Again, this is my conclusion based on my own research. It isn't definite, but hopefully helpful nonetheless.

 

[In It To Win It]

i definitely found microbio to be the most "non-plant" bio. even plant pathogenicity covers plants very superficially. of course, if you're in any bio major, it's pretty hard to avoid plant 100% (e.g. plant bio in general bio, photosynthesis in biochem, etc.).

I understand that, but I am just afraid that the course will be too hard. I don't want to screw up my GPA early in the game.

 

[Cegar]

It seems to depend greatly on the University and the strength of the BioE department.

 

[Cegar]

I understand that, but I am just afraid that the course will be too hard. I don't want to screw up my GPA early in the game.

It is not impossible to get a 4.0. You can probably take a 3-4 credit intro course to test out whether or not you like the major since you're still a freshman? Or are you a sophomore?

 

[In It To Win It]

Not a bioengineering major, (still flirting with chemical) but can respond:

After interviewing professors and other biomed engineer undergrads, I've come to the conclusion that it's probably not best to do a major in it. Why? Because in most cases, actual bioengineering doesn't start until senior year (or late junior year, if one is lucky.) That said, the first three years are basically generalistic engineering courses that draw from all of the specialties (Mechanical, electrical, chemical, etc). I'd say pick one of those if you're interested, and revisit bioengineering later (its totally doable and you'll find that the majority of bioengineering faculty have their degrees in these fields). Biomed engineering is also not a good fallback degree (heard the argument here before). Just looking at my university's statistics alone, only 60% of bioengineers applied for jobs, and only 30% found any (and we don't know if those jobs deal with bioengineering or not). So it's rough out there assuming you don't go to med school/professional school.

Thanks. I clearly see your point.
That said, it you want to broaden your knowledge base and want to learn bits of everything, I guess its ok. But the entire point of being an engineer is solving problems. I don't think bioengineers really have that capacity at the undergraduate level because they've been stretched too thin.

Again, this is my conclusion based on my own research. It isn't definite, but hopefully helpful nonetheless.

Thank you! I clearly see and understand your point. Do you know anything about biochemistry?

 

[In It To Win It]

It is not impossible to get a 4.0. You can probably take a 3-4 credit intro course to test out whether or not you like the major since you're still a freshman? Or are you a sophomore?

I will be entering in the fall. I'm just trying to do some last minute research.

 

[Cegar]

Oh. Yeah, no worries then.

Make sure to go visit your bio/chemical engineering advisors to talk to them about the majors.

 

[Quadratic]

Thank you! I clearly see and understand your point. Do you know anything about biochemistry?

I'm assuming you mean the major?

Most people assume that biochem is a glorious mixture of biology and chemistry. My suggestion: Do the chemistry degree. You're gonna be doing it anyway, only with "watered" down classes and hits of biology in between. By the way, this advice comes from a chemistry TA, who got his bachelors in Biochem. He said finding jobs in the workplace was a horrible adventure because a biochem degree simply doesn't equate to a Chemistry degree. But I assume that from being on this message board that you're not worried about having a career in chemistry. Other than that, I'd say go with the Chemistry BA because you'll actually have a better understanding of what's happening at the molecular level and why it's happening, not just repeating what you read from a textbook. There's plenty of opportunity to do biology as well. At my university there is a special lab chemistry ugrads can sign up for that deals specifically with organic compounds relevant to medical research.

 

[DrZaius]

I have a B.S. and M.S. in bioengineering. In my program, our coursework consisted of a mix of physio and EE (for the core at least). Obviously your success and satisfaction with these courses is COMPLETELY dependent on YOU.

I agree with this completely, which I think is awesome since physiology and EE are my two favorite subjects.

In fact, much of what I covered in undergrad went into greater depth (this being a product of the instructor being a medical school profressor and slightly disenchanted with the limits the medical school put on his syllabus).

I've never heard of this before. I always thought med school went into fairly rigorous depth. What kind of things did he cover that might not be covered in med school?

 

[In It To Win It]

I'm assuming you mean the major?

Most people assume that biochem is a glorious mixture of biology and chemistry. My suggestion: Do the chemistry degree. You're gonna be doing it anyway, only with "watered" down classes and hits of biology in between. By the way, this advice comes from a chemistry TA, who got his bachelors in Biochem. He said finding jobs in the workplace was a horrible adventure because a biochem degree simply doesn't equate to a Chemistry degree. But I assume that from being on this message board that you're not worried about having a career in chemistry. Other than that, I'd say go with the Chemistry BA because you'll actually have a better understanding of what's happening at the molecular level and why it's happening, not just repeating what you read from a textbook. There's plenty of opportunity to do biology as well. At my university there is a special lab chemistry ugrads can sign up for that deals specifically with organic compounds relevant to medical research.

Chemistry is my first love after all. I just can't decide. I'm constantly back and forth between majors. As soon as I decide on one, I see something about the other major I like!

 

[HeadMed]

I agree with this completely, which I think is awesome since physiology and EE are my two favorite subjects.

I've never heard of this before. I always thought med school went into fairly rigorous depth. What kind of things did he cover that might not be covered in med school?

Nothing that isn't covered to a certain point in med school, just way more depth (perhaps too much at times).

For instance, muscle physiology. This was a huge research interest in my department and thus we covered this for several weeks. Far beyond the actin, myosin, troponin C. There are many other factors and regulators involved and I was kind of surprised that some of this wasn't covered here at med school.

renal physiology. Although this too is covered, the depth is not there. The pathways for several key regulators were not really covered. It was kind of "this does this does this." No real explanation for why it occurs in that order or how all of these competing effects interact/regulate eachother.

Again, I don't think ALL of the depth that we went into in undergrad is relevant for clinical medicine, but that could be said for several things we have gone into in medical school as well.

 

[Dienekes]

the externships of RTs for instance won't count as ECs since its part of your curriculum. sure you'd get some clinical exposure, but you'd have to do the volunteer/shadow thing anyway.

plus, they'd question why you went got a technical degree if your aim was medical school. it'd be a different story ifyou got a BS in RT, practiced a couple of years then decide to go for med school.

Just FYI, a bachelors in respiratory is about as much a "technical" degree as I am a strong, independent black woman. Granted, it's not a traditional science, but it is not a community college style program (which is what I would imagine you are implying by your use of "technical") any more than a bachelors in computer science would be. In fact, many of the BS RT programs out there include all (or at least most) of the prereqs for medical school as a requirement for admission to the didactic portion of the RT program. I know this because I used to work as an RT (and was considered a de facto clinical instructor) at a facility which had both a medical school and a BS RT program.

However, that being said, I would not pursue a bachelors in RT as a premed, because in the event of your not getting accepted to medical school you would likely be stuck as an RT. There is an alleged "shortage" of RTs and many hospitals are so desperate that even if you possess other clinical qualifications, they are hesitant to talk to you for any position outside of RT. I am cross-qualified as an echocardiographer, and was flown down to South Carolina for an interview allegedly for an echo job, but was ambushed by the director of HR and RT. The work of an RT is not terribly difficult, nor is it the most interesting, but it also lacks the upward and lateral mobility that nursing possesses. In other words, contrary to what most RTs will tell you, respiratory is a career only because once you get into it, it is very difficult to escape unless you get a graduate degree in a health related field or leave clinical practice behind completely.

EDIT: BTW, just FYI, I am in the process of transferring schools in part to go into a BS pathologist's assistant program, but I am currently an international business and chemistry major.

 

[HeadMed]

Because in most cases, actual bioengineering doesn't start until senior year (or late junior year, if one is lucky.) That said, the first three years are basically generalistic engineering courses that draw from all of the specialties (Mechanical, electrical, chemical, etc).

Completely program dependent. Our program began the end of sophomore year. If you were on top of things you would have virtually all of you prereqs taken care of by then (but this required that you take a large load or come in with AP/IB credit).

Biomed engineering is also not a good fallback degree (heard the argument here before). Just looking at my university's statistics alone, only 60% of bioengineers applied for jobs, and only 30% found any (and we don't know if those jobs deal with bioengineering or not).

Again, program and track dependent. I chose an emphasis on medical imaging and actively researched throughout undergrad in this field. At the end of 4 years, I (and one of my friends also doing this track) were both offered several jobs as project managers at imaging companies (GE, Philips Medical, Siemens). Starting salaries were also pretty tough to pass on.

Although I obviously cannot speak for other institutions, I think the success of graduates from our program is largely due to reputation (built predominantly from our graduate school program). Our undergrad program was VERY selective in order to keep numbers down. This obviously helped insure that graduates were qualified and effective in their careers. Also because our department was huge in research and joint ventures with industry, many students began functionally working for these companies early on in their education. By the time they graduated they were already a proven commodity to these companies and fully knowledgeable of the projects they were working on.

With all that being said.....despite most of us getting job offers, I think only 4 or 5 of the 25 that graduated with me CHOSE to go into industry immediately.

 

[Isoprop]

Just FYI, a bachelors in respiratory is about as much a "technical" degree as I am a strong, independent black woman. Granted, it's not a traditional science, but it is not a community college style program (which is what I would imagine you are implying by your use of "technical") any more than a bachelors in computer science would be. In fact, many of the BS RT programs out there include all (or at least most) of the prereqs for medical school as a requirement for admission to the didactic portion of the RT program. I know this because I used to work as an RT (and was considered a de facto clinical instructor) at a facility which had both a medical school and a BS RT program.

However, that being said, I would not pursue a bachelors in RT as a premed, because in the event of your not getting accepted to medical school you would likely be stuck as an RT. There is an alleged "shortage" of RTs and many hospitals are so desperate that even if you possess other clinical qualifications, they are hesitant to talk to you for any position outside of RT. I am cross-qualified as an echocardiographer, and was flown down to South Carolina for an interview allegedly for an echo job, but was ambushed by the director of HR and RT. The work of an RT is not terribly difficult, nor is it the most interesting, but it also lacks the upward and lateral mobility that nursing possesses. In other words, contrary to what most RTs will tell you, respiratory is a career only because once you get into it, it is very difficult to escape unless you get a graduate degree in a health related field or leave clinical practice behind completely.

EDIT: BTW, just FYI, I am in the process of transferring schools in part to go into a BS pathologist's assistant program, but I am currently an international business and chemistry major.

thanks for pointing that out. some of the "applied science" degrees (e.g. engineering, computer science, etc.) are fine. when i said "technical" i was specifically referring to allied health and nursing type degrees. these degrees should be avoided for reasons you stated.

 

[Isoprop]

Chemistry is my first love after all. I just can't decide. I'm constantly back and forth between majors. As soon as I decide on one, I see something about the other major I like!

chemistry is also a good choice!! the biggest con with chem is the high # of required classes and labs.

 

[Dienekes]

I would assume that Respiratory Therapy degrees are viewed in the same light as Nursing degrees considering the remarkable amount of similarity between both the job and the degree.

An EMT speaking about the similarity of the education of medical professionals with far more education (180 hrs vs. 2-4 years) is like a paramedic criticizing an EM doc. All it does is make the lesser trained person look foolish and impulsive. The work is similar to a certain extent, but the degrees do not have much in common at the baccalaureate level.

BTW, before anyone gets their panties in a twist over the opening comment of this post, I was an EMS provider for several years and served as both a classroom and clinical instructor up to the paramedic level.