Undergrad school really doesnt make a difference??

[gryffindor]

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Ok, Im sure this has been mulled over numerous times, but its kinda of a hard topic to search.

From what Ive read on here in the past, you better off with a 3.8 GPA from Podunk College rather than say a 3.3 from an Ivy League school (probably a little exaggerated, but you get the point). Im really having a hard time coming to terms with that fact that the admissions people barely pay any attention to where you went for you undergrad. I mean, did I waste $35k/year going to a private university when really my goal is to get into dental school? Are all colleges equally difficult? It just seems to be the most overlooked aspect, Ive even seen people get flammed on here for bringing up the subject. If someone could please shed some light for me, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. 🙂

Chris

**This question is not for particularly me or my stats, rather a general question**

Yes, you did. That $35K probably bought you some cool experiences though. But if you got a 2.5, then you now face an uphill battle to get into dental school and might have to take some courses at (gasp!) a state school to boost that GPA and prove that you can get in.

A 4.0 is an impressive number, might as well get it from the school where it will be easiest to attain with the lowest debt. Then, focus 100% on the admissions test of your professional school (DAT, MCAT, LSAT, GMAT, etc) and ace it. You likely won't be turned away from grad school at that point. Numbers can always get your foot in the door and then it is up to your personality & connections in the interview to have them win you over.

In my state dental school class of 90, we had 2 students with Ivy undergrad degrees and neither student came straight from undergrad. I guess all the Ivy undergrad students went to dental school elsewhere, maybe over at the Ivy dental school downstate.

 

[Dsmack]

Here's my take, and it won't be a novel.

All you can do if you have applied already is just pray that everyone from your school does really well on the DAT. This does many things for your stats. If the ADCOM sees that all the kids from colorado state did extremely well on the DAT then it shows that that school prepared them well and makes all of them look better. The other thing that it does is that it gives that school a great reputation for future students from your school.

So I agree that is why we take the DAT, to see where we stand compared to everyone else in the nation regardless of where they went.

 

[Tarheel]

Person A went to a state school. They have less debt. They have a higher GPA because “it is easier.” They had more free time to boost their CV and have fun because it was “easier.” They also had more “free time” to study for the DAT.

Person B went to an Ivy League school. They have a higher debt load. There GPA is lower and so it is harder to get into dental school. (Many schools use mathematical formulas that use your GPA to calculate your applicant score.) They are competing against “smarter” people for grades and in the application process.

I am a little confused because it seems some of you are trying to tell me that person B is the smart one.

I understand the argument for business/politics. However, dentistry is a different ballgame. As unfair as it sounds patients don’t even pay Harvard trained dentists more money than dentists trained at state schools. Whatever happened to the age old adage that you get what you paid for?

 

[Yellow Snow]

Person A went to a state school. They have less debt. They have a higher GPA because “it is easier.” They had more free time to boost their CV and have fun because it was “easier.” They also had more “free time” to study for the DAT.

Person B went to an Ivy League school. They have a higher debt load. There GPA is lower and so it is harder to get into dental school. (Many schools use mathematical formulas that use your GPA to calculate your applicant score.) They are competing against “smarter” people for grades and in the application process.

I am a little confused because it seems some of you are trying to tell me that person B is the smart one.

I understand the argument for business/politics. However, dentistry is a different ballgame. As unfair as it sounds patients don’t even pay Harvard trained dentists more money than dentists trained at state schools. Whatever happened to the age old adage that you get what you paid for?

What you pay for at an IVY is the name of the school. Large state U's will have very active research and huge budgets, just like ivies. The professors will be hit and miss just like at the ivies. All you get is the name where, all other things being equal (including gpa), you get a bonus. It won't make up for a significantly lower gpa. It also won't make a difference in the end if you are going into a graduate program. It will help if you are going to start working just after undergrad.

 

[jkh1886]

Person A went to a state school. They have less debt. They have a higher GPA because "it is easier." They had more free time to boost their CV and have fun because it was "easier." They also had more "free time" to study for the DAT.

Person B went to an Ivy League school. They have a higher debt load. There GPA is lower and so it is harder to get into dental school. (Many schools use mathematical formulas that use your GPA to calculate your applicant score.) They are competing against "smarter" people for grades and in the application process.

I am a little confused because it seems some of you are trying to tell me that person B is the smart one.

I understand the argument for business/politics. However, dentistry is a different ballgame. As unfair as it sounds patients don't even pay Harvard trained dentists more money than dentists trained at state schools. Whatever happened to the age old adage that you get what you paid for?

You made an error in reasoning known as mixing up comparisons. "Smart" is an excessively vague term. In the first, it referred to a fiscally responsible decision. In the latter, it refers to intellect, in an academic sense.

There are also a series of unstated assumptions in that reasoning. I won't go into them, because this is neither the time nor place. It doesn't matter where you go to school. I support everyone going to college and getting an education, because it's important. Period. I could care less if it's at Harvard or X community college. As long as people strive for something better, I'm happy.

...but I'm also glad that I had the opportunity to study with pulitizer prize winners and nobel laureates. It gave me a glimpse at those minds that were truely visionary.

Now, let's END this thread. It's not supposed to have made it to a second page.

 

[Yellow Snow]

You made an error in reasoning known as mixing up comparisons. "Smart" is an excessively vague term. In the first, it referred to a fiscally responsible decision. In the latter, it refers to intellect, in an academic sense.

There are also a series of unstated assumptions in that reasoning. I won't go into them, because this is neither the time nor place. It doesn't matter where you go to school. I support everyone going to college and getting an education, because it's important. Period. I could care less if it's at Harvard or X community college. As long as people strive for something better, I'm happy.

...but I'm also glad that I had the opportunity to study with pulitizer prize winners and nobel laureates. It gave me a glimpse at those minds that were truely visionary.

Now, let's END this thread. It's not supposed to have made it to a second page.

I dig the lawyer talk but I hope you don't try and make friends this way.

 

[focus07]

While I agree that private school have better faculty (most likely), they also have a huge issue with grade inflation. They want their alumni to succeed and hence they are more likely to bump up the grades. There are great state schools such as Michigan, Berkley, UNC, Virginia, and many more, where I think you get an excellent education and pay a quarter of the price. But you have to earn your grade.

 

[fancymylotus]

i dated someone for a long time that went to a state school,not even a top 20 or anything fancy schmancy, had a 3.8 34MCAT and got into every med school he applied to: all the cali schools, harvard,yale, cornell,darthmouth,and northwsetern(hes at stanfurd now). the point is that if you do very well wherever you are(not so sure if this applies to CC,but we arent arguing about that), it doesnt mattteeeerrrrrrrrrr where you went to school.

i guess if youre going to apply for jobs out of undergrad,its another story,but as far as professional school goes, thats my take on it.

 

[thehipster]

I really thought that which undergrad school a student usually would make a difference, but like others have said, it depends on the stats you got from your school. I go to a school that most people wouldn't consider a good school (Univ of Hartford) mainly b/c people don't know about it. My school basically will let basically anyone in, but I've felt it was a decent school. My friends who've either transferred in or out of my school have said most of the science professors and classes have been fairly comparable, except for the size of the classes. So far my undergrad school hasn't affected me in getting interviews, but who knows about acceptances. I can say that I've thought about transferring almost every semester here, wondering if other schools would be better, but I'm glad that I didn't, mainly b/c of many of the professors I've had, as well as the experiences I've had here. I can say that most of my science classes taught a lot of useful info and ended up really helping me on the DAT, hence why I felt I didn't feel that I had to restudy a lot of the material. My point is that I can see how an undergrad school could make a difference in getting accepted to dental/medical school, but it depends on how the classes are, how your grades/DAT are. I've seen people from here get accepted to various dental/optometry/medical schools, so I doubt it'll really end up affected my getting accepted to school, but I can't say I never thought about it.

 

[HermeytheElf]

You made an error in reasoning known as mixing up comparisons. "Smart" is an excessively vague term. In the first, it referred to a fiscally responsible decision. In the latter, it refers to intellect, in an academic sense.

There are also a series of unstated assumptions in that reasoning. I won't go into them, because this is neither the time nor place. It doesn't matter where you go to school. I support everyone going to college and getting an education, because it's important. Period. I could care less if it's at Harvard or X community college. As long as people strive for something better, I'm happy.

...but I'm also glad that I had the opportunity to study with pulitizer prize winners and nobel laureates. It gave me a glimpse at those minds that were truely visionary.

Now, let's END this thread. It's not supposed to have made it to a second page.

Big words...me no understand. No teachy teachy how talky talky like that at state school. Oh well, I guess I'll just get back to my homework for "Breaking rocks apart with other rocks 101".

 

[jkh1886]

yes yes. everything's great. anyone can get into any school. the grass is green. the light is bright. rocks are fun to play with. now end this thread. people are making responses to claims I never made. while others take this opportunity to last out the the world for their abusive mother. I'm gonna shoot myself if this goes to a third page.

 

[Mackchops]

yes yes. everything's great. anyone can get into any school. the grass is green. the light is bright. rocks are fun to play with. now end this thread. people are making responses to claims I never made. while others take this opportunity to last out the the world for their abusive mother. I'm gonna shoot myself if this goes to a third page.

HAHA

*bump*

 

[biocmp]

JkH, what were nobel laureates like? Did they eat the same food that we do? 🙂

 

[Ething]

FIU class of 06, LOL.

 

[aggie-master]

To be honest, then you are more then welcome to continue to go to private schools and pay much more money.

If state schools suck, then are you applying to any state dental schools?
I would greatly prefer to attend my state school and pay less then half the cost of private dental schools. And at the end of the day, we would both have D.D.S./D.M.D. behind our names. My state school (Maryland) I believe was rated in the top 10 dental schools the last time the ratings were released by US News (not that those ratings were necessarily fair). It was also the first dental school in the USA. Not meaning to brag by any means, but simply saying state schools suck is a very broad generalization.

I honestly do not think private schools are worth the extra money. This however has been my personal experience (especially since I'm footing the bill!!!!).

I do not care which school I go to, as long as I get a quality education. I woulder rather become a good dentist who is able to provide excellent care for my patients rather then brag that I went to a top dental school.

I was being sarcastic. I went to a state school, Texas A&M University, and took all of my prereqs at a junior college since I took them post-bacc and A&M costs three times as much as a CC. I studied for the DAT for three weeks while working full time and made a 22 on it with my community college prereq education.

 

[egots]

that commendable aggie, i think thats the one hidden factor behind the DAT some ppl study months and months on end while others study a month max...in reality ppl with the same scores are at different level and that will only show in dental school

 

[HermeytheElf]

yes yes. everything's great. anyone can get into any school. the grass is green. the light is bright. rocks are fun to play with. now end this thread. people are making responses to claims I never made. while others take this opportunity to last out the the world for their abusive mother. I'm gonna shoot myself if this goes to a third page.

Looks like we're well on our way to a third page sweetheart...still up for making good on your promise? One thing...I thought that when the walls started closing in, WASPs usually drove their Benz off a cliff or OD'd on prozac/vodka...why bring a gun into this? If you're on your way out, you might as well leave in style.

 

[jkh1886]

Looks like we're well on our way to a third page sweetheart...still up for making good on your promise? One thing...I thought that when the walls started closing in, WASPs usually drove their Benz off a cliff or OD'd on prozac/vodka...why bring a gun into this? If you're on your way out, you might as well leave in style.

I'll do it in style. you provide the benz. or... I'll do better than a benz off the cliff. you provide a yacht, and I'll steer it off the edge of the ocean. but don't expect to get the yacht back.

I was gonna shoot myself with a nerf gun.

 

[prez_al]

Looks like we're well on our way to a third page sweetheart...still up for making good on your promise? One thing...I thought that when the walls started closing in, WASPs usually drove their Benz off a cliff or OD'd on prozac/vodka...why bring a gun into this? If you're on your way out, you might as well leave in style.

This has to be the most ******edly funny thread in quite awhile!!!

But seriously, it really seems like if you have a decent GPA and a high DAT score to go along with it, you'll be competitive regardless if you went to Harvard, Jabroni University, CGNU or even Cowpie State. We all end up with the same degree and the BASIC material covered is the same, so I really don't see why our undergrad school should make a difference.

 

[abzirian]

i dated someone for a long time that went to a state school,not even a top 20 or anything fancy schmancy, had a 3.8 34MCAT and got into every med school he applied to: all the cali schools, harvard,yale, cornell,darthmouth,and northwsetern(hes at stanfurd now). the point is that if you do very well wherever you are(not so sure if this applies to CC,but we arent arguing about that), it doesnt mattteeeerrrrrrrrrr where you went to school.

i guess if youre going to apply for jobs out of undergrad,its another story,but as far as professional school goes, thats my take on it.

While we're on the talk of grades and stats, i have a friend that has a 3.9 and a 41 on the MCATs - and only got into a few schools (none of his first picks). And he's not alone (since all my friends were premeds) - all of my friends had over 40s but had trouble getting in most places. Point is obviously that stats aren't everything.

 

[SayitIsntSO]

I am hoping i push this boring thread to page 3.

this thread is full of people acting like they know anything. it all comes down to us being compared to our peers (curves, admissions, DATs, time trials, whatever). such is life. none of us truly know what the adcoms are thinking, i doubt they really even know until everyone is in. ive joined the ranks of the boring and all knowing predents on this thread 😡 where the hell is my NERF (lame) gun afterall... so..


THIS IS TO YOU HERMEY....

oh yeah, hermey for president

 

[cdmOMR]

Look at this monster I've created ! I didnt intend for so much controversy, but such is life. 😳

 

[Revelde]

Look at this monster I've created ! I didnt intend for so much controversy, but such is life. 😳

I will contribute to make this 3 page long

 

[prez_al]

Come on people... only 26 more posts and we're on page 3!!!!!

 

[r0entgen]

whatever. I've taken classes at multiple schools. My main undergrad was a top 20 private school. The others were top 10 public, top 40 overall. The top 20 school forced me to think like hell, and getting the grades were NOT a breeze. At the public schools, I didn't have to break a sweat [or even study] to get 4.0's. All of my friends who have been to top AND lower ranked schools [so far] agree.

Point being, don't think you're smarter than a student from a top school with a lower gpa just cuz you have a higher gpa from a noname school. The correlation's just not there. Before you listen to critiques of these schools, it would help to note if that person actually has been to both top and lower ranked schools.

The dat's a predictor of dental school success, not smartness. the test is very fact-based. The quality schools are looking for may be those who can absorb more information, not those who are necessarily the best thinkers. [as opposed to the mcat, which is predominantly reasoning-based, not fact based. the fact based questions on that test are considered gimme's for most students there.]

Plus, the admissions committee have MANY contraints to work around. They all want top students. but there are many statistics they have to work around. they need to have 1) representation from many undergrad institutions. if they want at least 50 undergrad institutions represented, they can't have 50 top 10 schools. They want 2) a high avg gpa. 3) high dat's 4) etc, etc.

if they want representation from duke, and hte only duke applicant has a 3.0, they'll take the 3.0. they'll just balance it out with all the 3.9's out there.

you just have to determine which kind of applicant you are: big name school with high/low gpa, high gpa from no name school, minority, etc.

i completely agree with everything you've said in this thread. i've similarly attempted to explain these differences between one's education at a top university vs. a general public school, but was never successful. so i've come to realise that i'll never be able to convince these people of this because they have never personally taken courses at a highly ranked institution before...so it is unlikely that they'll know what we're talking about.

 

[lifeisgood]

i completely agree with everything you've said in this thread. i've similarly attempted to explain these differences between one's education at a top university vs. a general public school, but was never successful. so i've come to realise that i'll never be able to convince these people of this because they have never personally taken courses at a highly ranked institution before...so it is unlikely that they'll know what we're talking about.

are you british or something??? 😕

 

[americanpierg]

Just out of curiosity...if your degree from Harvard is doing so much for you, how did you end up at NYU? Do you just like the idea of having so many student loans that your grandchildren will still be paying them off in 100 years?

LOL!!!

 

[americanpierg]

While we're on the talk of grades and stats, i have a friend that has a 3.9 and a 41 on the MCATs - and only got into a few schools (none of his first picks). And he's not alone (since all my friends were premeds) - all of my friends had over 40s but had trouble getting in most places. Point is obviously that stats aren't everything.

I call BS on this post. Your friend must be an autistic premed student, or you are a liar. Then again you seem to be friends with the smartest kids in America, with each one of them scoring 40s on the MCAT. If your gonna throw crap around, make it believable. Why do you feel the need to lie on a random forum to make yourself look cool? It's quite sad, I wont even kid you. Go get a life son.

 

[Tarheel]

This has to be the most ******edly funny thread in quite awhile!!!

But seriously, it really seems like if you have a decent GPA and a high DAT score to go along with it, you'll be competitive regardless if you went to Harvard, Jabroni University, CGNU or even Cowpie State. We all end up with the same degree and the BASIC material covered is the same, so I really don't see why our undergrad school should make a difference.

Are you implying something negative about my undergrad education? I bet you don't even know the many uses of buffalo chips.

 

[IdiotsAnnoyMe]

Are you implying something negative about my undergrad education? I bet you don't even know the many uses of buffalo chips.

I think he's calling you a *******. 😛

 

[fancymylotus]

i completely agree with everything you've said in this thread. i've similarly attempted to explain these differences between one's education at a top university vs. a general public school, but was never successful. so i've come to realise that i'll never be able to convince these people of this because they have never personally taken courses at a highly ranked institution before...so it is unlikely that they'll know what we're talking about.

um,someones a little self-righteous,no?

 

[SundevilDMD]

It really doesnt matter what school you go too...I mean it would matter if there were no DAT. But the DAT puts all of us on the same playing field. The DAT will show you how smart you are not what school you went too

 

[biocmp]

jkh1886, I have noticed something with many of your posts lately,
The tilt of your nose is inversely proportional to my respect for you.

I think this could be considered true for most on this board. 🙂

 

[cdmOMR]

jkh1886, I have noticed something with many of your posts lately,
The tilt of your nose is inversely proportional to my respect for you.

I think this could almost be considered true for most on this board. 🙂

some but not all...

And I thought this thread was dead !

 

[prez_al]

some but not all...

And I thought this thread was dead !

Guess not, I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the day, this thread gets to 100+ posts... seems like one of those threads that just lingers.

 

[armorshell]

It really doesnt matter what school you go too...I mean it would matter if there were no DAT. But the DAT puts all of us on the same playing field. The DAT will show you how smart you are not what school you went too

It's funny how noone seems to want to address this, but the DAT tests everyone on the same knowledge, so it should stand that if you are better educated at a "Better" school, then lower GPA students representing that school should have higher DAT scores.

 

[IdiotsAnnoyMe]

The tilt of your nose is inversely proportional to my respect for you.
🙂

who talks like this?

 

[ecuajedi]

It's funny how noone seems to want to address this, but the DAT tests everyone on the same knowledge, so it should stand that if you are better educated at a "Better" school, then lower GPA students representing that school should have higher DAT scores.

Exactly everyone that takes the DAT gets the same shot to get a descent score. Time to see if 35K a year paid off to score well or if it really was just a waste.

 

[biocmp]

who talks like this?

your mom!! oh snap, yes he did! 🙂 does that sound better? I was trying to reach ivy boy in words that only his superior brain could understand, what with his teaching from nobel laureates and all.

 

[Sprgrover]

...If someone could please shed some light for me, it would be greatly appreciated...

While I can't speak for other schools I do know that Penn does assign value to an applicant's undergraduate institution. How much of an emphasis is placed on it I don't know - but while I don't think it sinks anyone's chances here (e.g. generic state school vs. Big Brand Name school) it certainly is a factor in admission decisions.

 

[Sprgrover]

your mom!! oh snap, yes he did! 🙂 does that sound better? I was trying to reach ivy boy in words that only his superior brain could understand, what with his teaching from nobel laureates and all.

Okay, play nice.

 

[shainapunim]

I think the DAT tests facts and most science classes at ivy's test your ability to think critically about the material. When I go into bio tests at Duke, they assume you know how DNA is replicated, etc. and ask you questions about things going wrong or the effect of a new mutation and there are no multiple choice answers, it is essay based and not something you could have read. The schools ive talked to know this and do expect to see higher DAT scores even with a lower GPA. Public Schools are great schools and you will leave with the same info, its just how it is taught and tested that is very different. The biggest diff to recognize is that people will get accpeted from lower ranked public schools with high GPAs just fine, but the % accepted to dental school from many of those schools isnt as high as it is from ivys. The national acceptance to med school is about 40% where at Duke it is about 88% (there are too few dental applicants to give a good stat here, we have between 5 and 15 a year). In sum, it doesnt matter where you go, you can still get into Dental School.

 

[wigglytooth]

I think the DAT tests facts and most science classes at ivy's test your ability to think critically about the material. When I go into bio tests at Duke, they assume you know how DNA is replicated, etc. and ask you questions about things going wrong or the effect of a new mutation and there are no multiple choice answers, it is essay based and not something you could have read. The schools ive talked to know this and do expect to see higher DAT scores even with a lower GPA. Public Schools are great schools and you will leave with the same info, its just how it is taught and tested that is very different. The biggest diff to recognize is that people will get accpeted from lower ranked public schools with high GPAs just fine, but the % accepted to dental school from many of those schools isnt as high as it is from ivys. The national acceptance to med school is about 40% where at Duke it is about 88% (there are too few dental applicants to give a good stat here, we have between 5 and 15 a year). In sum, it doesnt matter where you go, you can still get into Dental School.

Finally someone put it nicely enough for me to agree with.