Undergraduate Degree From Yale

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Jordan Frazier

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Hey guys, this is more about expectations than it is about chances. I'll be attending Yale in the fall and playing football. I'm mainly just curious to know if my expectations for my GPA will be lower because of the difficulty level of Yale. I've been shadowing an EM doctor since my junior year in high school, and already have quite a bit of hours accumulated. With that being said, I'm not too worried about my EC's because improving them will be less stressful. I'll also most likely be working in a lab in the ER at some point this winter. My main questions are this: If I had a decent MCAT score and good EC's, what are my GPA expectations for mid-tier MD and DO schools?

Best regards,
Jordan.

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Although it is impressive, I don't think they will be too lenient. You need to strive for the best GPA possible.
 
As typicalindian said, your GPA expectations will not be lowered much, if at all. Though I will ask, are you a minority?

If I were in your shoes, and I wanted to be a doctor, I would not go to Yale. Now you can go to Yale and do fine if you are smart enough, but this game is all about maximizing odds and one way to do that is to lower the difficulty of your classes (while remaining in a four year uni). If Yale is a dream of yours and you feel you are smart enough to handle it then by all means go, but you may have to ask if going to Yale is a more important dream than being a doctor. But if you feel you can do both, by no means do I discourage it.

Another thing to think about is loans, if you're not on fin aid or scholarship. I don't know if Yale gives football rides like us SECs do.
 
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I'm not a minority, and I'm not super smart like most of my fellow students at Yale would be. My dream of being a doctor is certainly bigger than my dream of going to Yale. I'm definitely giving it second thoughts now.
 
Hey guys, this is more about expectations than it is about chances. I'll be attending Yale in the fall and playing football. I'm mainly just curious to know if my expectations for my GPA will be lower because of the difficulty level of Yale. I've been shadowing an EM doctor since my junior year in high school, and already have quite a bit of hours accumulated. With that being said, I'm not too worried about my EC's because improving them will be less stressful. I'll also most likely be working in a lab in the ER at some point this winter. My main questions are this: If I had a decent MCAT score and good EC's, what are my GPA expectations for mid-tier MD and DO schools?

Best regards,
Jordan.

You will be expected to have a GPA in the range of their other matriculants. Don't expect special treatment because of your school. You might get a boost, but the actual GPA you earn is much more important than the school you earned it from. Good luck, and make sure your grades are your top priority.
 
No need to think of extremes in either direction. Your grades have to be good from an Ivy, same as anywhere else. You could also (let's be real) decide to do something besides medicine. But, I mean, will you get interviews with a 3.6 or 3.7 from Yale up against 4.0s from quality state schools? Of course you will.

I would think rather in terms of debt load. IF you get "preferential packaging" from Yale because of football--of course the Ivies don't give athletic scholarships 😀 --so that your cost of attendance is more or less what it would be at your other options, then go for it. Or if your parents are in a position to just write a check, then that's great, too. But really, really think twice before borrowing heavily for undergrad AND presumed professional school.
 
No need to think of extremes in either direction. Your grades have to be good from an Ivy, same as anywhere else. You could also (let's be real) decide to do something besides medicine. But, I mean, will you get interviews with a 3.6 or 3.7 from Yale up against 4.0s from quality state schools? Of course you will.

I would think rather in terms of debt load. IF you get "preferential packaging" from Yale because of football--of course the Ivies don't give athletic scholarships 😀 --so that your cost of attendance is more or less what it would be at your other options, then go for it. Or if your parents are in a position to just write a check, then that's great, too. But really, really think twice before borrowing heavily for undergrad AND presumed professional school.

Listen to this guy. You should be less concerned about GPA and more concerned about debt load. Assuming your tuition, fees, and living expenses add up to $40,000/year (I believe that for Yale this would be even higher) and you take 4 years to graduate, you're looking at $160,000 in debt when you graduate if you took out loans for everything. That's as much as a nice house in a suburb. Then you have to factor in interest. Only a small portion of your loans will be federal loans with their low interest rates; the rest will have to come from private loans from banks. You will need to get a cosigner (ie your parents) since you most likely do not have any credit history to speak of. If your parents have crappy credit scores then you are going to get raped on the interest rate (normally I'd hesitate to use the word "rape" in a non-sex crime context, but I honestly think that's a pretty good description of what will happen). If you defer that debt through med school and residency (which you will, you won't have a choice) it is going to explode. Then you tack on the medical school debt, the interest for that, and the interest you'll have accrued by the time you can finally start paying it down and you could very well be half a million dollars in debt before you've even bought your first house or car. And the best part is that you'll never be able to discharge that debt unless you become so crippled you can't work anymore, or you die.

The price tag for Ivies and other top schools is only worth it if you can pay for it out of pocket, have someone else paying it for you (scholarships), or plan on going straight into the workforce after college and staying there (banking, finance, etc). If you go to an Ivy with the intent of medical school and pay for everything with loans, there is no way you aren't going to regret that in 10 years.
 
The price tag for Ivies and other top schools is only worth it if you can pay for it out of pocket, have someone else paying it for you (scholarships), or plan on going straight into the workforce after college and staying there (banking, finance, etc). If you go to an Ivy with the intent of medical school and pay for everything with loans, there is no way you aren't going to regret that in 10 years.

This can't be said enough. After medical school and residency, no one will care where you went to undergrad. Sure it might be cool to say that you went to Yale but it's not going to get you a job in medicine.

If you don't have to pay for it and think you'll still get a high GPA, then sure, go to Yale. But if you do have to pay for it and/or think you could get a much better GPA at a less competitive school, it's worth some serious consideration.
 
A student body with stats higher than yours sounds like a recipe for not getting into medical school.

Schools forgive very little for GPA deficiency due to difficulty of undergrad institution. Most people on this board say go to the cheapest 4 year you can get into and still manage a high GPA (above a 3.6). You'll get plenty of debt in med school.

The upside is, a Yale degree looks impressive to employers. Downside is, you have a good chance at ending up in a profession that isn't in medicine.
 
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LOL at the bitter students .

LOL, Good point. I am pretty bitter. So take my advice with a grain of salt.

I shouldn't be though, I have an MD acceptance and a relativey high GPA from a no-name yet very competitive grade deflator (even worse than a grade deflating ivy because we lack a name on top of everything). It worked out for me but it didn't work out for a lot of my very smart fellow classmates and that still upsets me.
 
LOL at the bitter students who are saying pass up Yale to go to a cheaper school. I'm not saying you don't have a valid argument, but as someone who passed up an Ivy because of price due to advice like this, I regret it all the time.

To answer your questions, students from Yale and athletes get a bit of a break with GPA, but not as in you can get under a 3.5. If you are good applicant/nice person, lots of medical schools would love to have a Yalie or athlete come to their school.

Who's bitter? I went to a top 20 school because "OMG prestige!" and in hindsight it probably wasn't such a great idea. I've got $40,000 in loans from that school, about $22k of which is in a private loan with 11.725% interest. I'm taking a couple gap years right now, and my finances could be pretty good were it not for those loan payments which would have me subsisting off of instant ramen were it not for the fact that I have investments I can dip into each month to spare me from wiping out my salary just to meet the minimum monthly payments (and with that private loan the interest is so high that of my $250 monthly minimum payment, only $50 actually pays down the principle; the other $200 just pays down interest that accrued since the last month). The only reason I'm not panicking over it is that my dad has told me he'll pay off my loans as soon as he gets his own finances sorted out (which according to him should be early next year, so we'll see).

Keep in mind all of that was over maybe $30-35k taken out in loans over three years at a school that cost about $50k/year to attend when you factor in living expenses in addition to tuition and fees. I have friends from that school who are a lot worse off thanks to the fact that they took out way more loans than I did, and especially considering that they don't have any savings to dip into to help make the loan payments or a rich dad to bail them out like I do.

So I'm speaking from experience here; expensive schools just aren't worth it. There are plenty of great public schools out there, go to one of those instead.
 
A wouldn't pass on the opportunities of a Yale undergrad degree unless you really didn't like the school.

What opportunities? The advantage you get in med school admissions with Yale on your CV is pretty small, and certainly isn't worth what you'll be paying in tuition. It's not like you'll be networking either, so no need to worry about their alumni network or job fairs. Graduating from Yale in undergrad won't help you get a better residency or a better job as a physician either. In fact, no one will care where you went to undergrad the day you matriculate into medical school.

Yes, Yale CAN be worth it, but not as a pre-med. Now if you're business major with his eyes set on an analyst job at Goldman Sachs or Leiman Bros., then yes, Yale is worth it because that's pretty much the only way you're getting hired at one of those companies and even the starting salaries they'll pay you will pay off your loans within 1-3 years. If your career goals include some form of grad school though then you're better off saving the money you would have spent on Yale College of A&S tuition to instead put towards Yale SOM tuition.
 
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Are we overlooking the thrill of being a member of the home team at Yale Bowl? 😀

Yalies seem to have a way of finding volunteer activities that are useful and meaningful. There are basic science and medical science labs as well as social science research opportunities.

There are worse places where you could spend your bright college years.

Yale can be generous with need based aid so it can turn out to be less costly than some alternatives.
 
I went to an HYPS school and let me tell you, the opportunities there are amazing if you know what you're doing. If you don't, it's a little intimidating, as it seems like most people know what they want and go all out in trying to achieve their goals. I don't know if I was ready for such a big leap from a underperforming high school to a place like Yale, but I don't regret going for a moment. Financial aid was awesome (had no loans when I graduated, and spent less money on my education there than if I had gone to a state school). There are so many opportunities at a place like Yale as a premed. Since I wasn't premed in college, I didn't take advantage of them, but I know a lot of people who had lots of meaningful research with the basic science faculty, as well as faculty in the medical school. There are tons of student volunteer organizations, and there are lots of programs at the medical school that allow you to shadow and work with physicians at Yale med. Classes at Yale are small, and I went on field and research trips to different countries during spring and summer, with the school paying for them, opportunities I wouldn't have had had I not gone to Yale. I'm jealous that you get to start at a place like Yale with a fresh start.

I didn't do awesome (<3.5 GPA), but I still got a number of interviews at schools I was happy with and will be attending an MD med school somewhere in the United States next year, so while I didn't do as well as my peers, I did well enough to get into a med school. Yale has a placement rate of over 90%, and there is a lot of support. I feel the Yale name will give you a slight boost, but you still have to do well and not only rely on the name to get you into med school.
 
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What opportunities? The advantage you get in med school admissions with Yale on your CV is pretty small, and certainly isn't worth what you'll be paying in tuition. It's not like you'll be networking either, so no need to worry about their alumni network or job fairs. Graduating from Yale in undergrad won't help you get a better residency or a better job as a physician either. In fact, no one will care where you went to undergrad the day you matriculate into medical school.

Yes, Yale CAN be worth it, but not as a pre-med. Now if you're business major with his eyes set on an analyst job at Goldman Sachs or Leiman Bros., then yes, Yale is worth it because that's pretty much the only way you're getting hired at one of those companies and even the starting salaries they'll pay you will pay off your loans within 1-3 years. If your career goals include some form of grad school though then you're better off saving the money you would have spent on Yale College of A&S tuition to instead put towards Yale SOM tuition.

I'm curious where you have all this experience from.

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Also, the OP never once indicated that the financial burden (whatever it ends up being) was of significant concern.

All this talk about how "Yale is not worth it as a pre-med" is based on a whole bunch of assumptions...many of which aren't even true.

Interview at any top 20 medical school, and you will see a gross overrepresentation of top 25 undergraduate institutions and some liberal arts colleges. It's just how it is.

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Edit: OP, you may find these two documents very useful.

http://ucs.yalecollege.yale.edu/sites/default/files/med_school_stats.pdf
http://ucs.yalecollege.yale.edu/sites/default/files/med_school_applicant_profile.pdf

These can be found at http://ucs.yalecollege.yale.edu/content/application-resources-and-materials-allopathic-medicine


89% direct acceptance rate to medical school from Yale undergrad.
 
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A wouldn't pass on the opportunities of a Yale undergrad degree unless you really didn't like the school.

+1. personally i wouldn't respect myself if i backed down from such an exciting opportunity unless i absolutely had to for family or financial reasons. i'd take it if i were you. don't sell yourself short.
 
I'm curious where you have all this experience from.

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Also, the OP never once indicated that the financial burden (whatever it ends up being) was of significant concern.

All this talk about how "Yale is not worth it as a pre-med" is based on a whole bunch of assumptions...many of which aren't even true.

Interview at any top 20 medical school, and you will see a gross overrepresentation of top 25 undergraduate institutions and some liberal arts colleges. It's just how it is.

Of course top 25 undergrad institutions are overrepresented at top med schools. Are you honestly surprised that people who made it into top 25 undergrads also make it into top 25 med schools? As someone who attended both a mediocre state school and a top 20, I can assure you the reasons behind that overrepresetnation have little to do with the institution and much, much more to do with the student body that they attract. Going to a top 25 school doesn't get you into a top 25 med school; being the caliber of student that can get into a top 25 school is what gets you into a top 25 med school.

While OP may not have asked about financial considerations, that could either be due to the fact that he has that covered (in which case I'm sure he'll know to ignore the advice since it doesn't apply to him), or due to the fact that like many high schoolers he hasn't really considered the full consequences of $40k/year loan debt.

Finally, if you're going to condescend to me with something along the lines of "you have no experience" I'd hope you could at least reply with something more substantive than "many of your assumptions aren't true". For example, you could point out a few and then back up your assertion instead of hoping we'll take the word of a med student as the word of god.
 
I'm not a minority, and I'm not super smart like most of my fellow students at Yale would be. My dream of being a doctor is certainly bigger than my dream of going to Yale. I'm definitely giving it second thoughts now.

Dude, go to Yale. You don't have to be super smart to do well in the pre-req classes. Work hard, stay determined, and you'll do well.
 
Financial aid was awesome (had no loans when I graduated, and spent less money on my education there than if I had gone to a state school). There are so many opportunities at a place like Yale as a premed. Since I wasn't premed in college, I didn't take advantage of them, but I know a lot of people who had lots of meaningful research with the basic science faculty, as well as faculty in the medical school. There are tons of student volunteer organizations, and there are lots of programs at the medical school that allow you to shadow and work with physicians at Yale med. Classes at Yale are small, and I went on field and research trips to different countries during spring and summer, with the school paying for them, opportunities I wouldn't have had had I not gone to Yale.

Yalie here, and it was also cheaper for me to attend Yale than it was for me to attend my state school. Financial aid was incredible, opportunities were endless, and I would do it again in a heartbeat. I would definitely suggest talking to upperclassmen on the football team - I believe a few were pre-med or science majors and would have invaluable advice for you. Over the course of the next year, you'll have lots of opportunities to connect with other pre-meds at Yale too.

Keep in mind there is a bit of grade inflation at H and Y compared to other schools (including state schools), which could definitely help in your favor as well. Also, there are definite ways of adjusting your schedule to take harder classes like organic chemistry (traditional GPA breakers) during the off season (spring and summer semesters).
 
The thing about grade inflation is that the material is probably more difficult and the competition is much stiffer at Harvard or Yale so I'm not convinced that it would help.
 
What opportunities? The advantage you get in med school admissions with Yale on your CV is pretty small, and certainly isn't worth what you'll be paying in tuition. It's not like you'll be networking either, so no need to worry about their alumni network or job fairs. Graduating from Yale in undergrad won't help you get a better residency or a better job as a physician either. In fact, no one will care where you went to undergrad the day you matriculate into medical school.

Yes, Yale CAN be worth it, but not as a pre-med. Now if you're business major with his eyes set on an analyst job at Goldman Sachs or Leiman Bros., then yes, Yale is worth it because that's pretty much the only way you're getting hired at one of those companies and even the starting salaries they'll pay you will pay off your loans within 1-3 years. If your career goals include some form of grad school though then you're better off saving the money you would have spent on Yale College of A&S tuition to instead put towards Yale SOM tuition.

The speech of how it doesn't matter what school you go to just get good grades is parroted over and over. It's just not true. The school you go to does make a difference, especially for more competitive medical schools. The same trend is there for residencies, despite SDN folklore of "doesn't matter where you go." It does. It's just that when you are already there, there's more useful things to worry about.


Of course top 25 undergrad institutions are overrepresented at top med schools. Are you honestly surprised that people who made it into top 25 undergrads also make it into top 25 med schools? As someone who attended both a mediocre state school and a top 20, I can assure you the reasons behind that overrepresetnation have little to do with the institution and much, much more to do with the student body that they attract. Going to a top 25 school doesn't get you into a top 25 med school; being the caliber of student that can get into a top 25 school is what gets you into a top 25 med school.


Finally, if you're going to condescend to me with something along the lines of "you have no experience" I'd hope you could at least reply with something more substantive than "many of your assumptions aren't true". For example, you could point out a few and then back up your assertion instead of hoping we'll take the word of a med student as the word of god.


More than 50% of Yale Med's current first year class attended an ivy undergrad. If you want to believe that it's all due to "high-achieving self-section" then I guess you can. In my opinion though, it would be silly to ignore the selection going on at the admissions committee level.
 
You'll have to work harder to get good grades at Yale simply because of the level of expectations for the students and the student calibre. However, in considering all these things, one shouldn't forget that these schools have incredible resources and opportunities that you cannot get elsewhere--from distinguished faculty, funding, institutes to work at, etc etc. These schools make it easy to do stuff that's noticeable and impressive if you're willing to put in the work and go for it.

I went to a good but not prestigious school (in the top 30) and I loved it because the school was a surprisingly great fit for me. Just find a school that delivers what you want and that will fit your needs. If money is a huge concern, Ivy schools actually tend to be quite cheap because of the financial aid they offer. If easy classes are your priority, you'll probably find the easiest classes at a local school. If exciting EC's and research opportunities are for you, obviously the big powerhouses with large endowments are most likely to deliver that. Consider everything--class size, professor availability, student life, location. I can pretty much guarantee you that if you try even moderately hard, which school you go to will not stop you from going to medical school.
 
some of this advice is scary. i stopped reading the thread after someone said they would not go to yale because they might have a better gpa from a different school. i cant understate how bad this advice is.

the goal is always to get the highest gpa and mcat as possible, right? so just do that. if there are problems later then you can address them at that time.
 
I agree with the general feeling that the only real consideration against going to Yale is money/family. If you can afford it and there aren't any personal issues that might keep you closer to home, the opportunities at these schools with gigantic endowments are absolutely absurd. I was lucky enough to go to a school whose resources (i.e. grants and $$ for travel abroad/summer research/whatever on earth you want) allow you to dream big, and I can directly associate so many elements of my personal growth with the flexibility and freedom my school offered. If you're someone who becomes energized by those around you, it also doesn't hurt to be surrounded by some of the most talented, driven college students in the country.

That's not to say that you can't become a great applicant at a public school or other less wealthy institution; people on this forum prove that all the time. There are just a few extra walls that you have to break down to get there.
 
some of this advice is scary. i stopped reading the thread after someone said they would not go to yale because they might have a better gpa from a different school.

This.

Honestly, the best advice you will get will be from pre-med/science majors on the football team (or any other team) at Yale - not from SDN. Talk to your recruiter and ask to get in touch with those students, it will be the most helpful way of judging whether or not you can do it too.
 
Yale is one of the more grade inflated schools. You're basically spoon fed resources that will help you succeed in your academics and pre-med path, should you choose to accept them.

Be glad you're not going to Cal or MIT. You're still facing against the brightest there, except you're on your own.
 
I was under the impression that grade inflation is looked negatively upon. A GPA is a GPA though, and your undergrad doesn't seem to hold as much weight for medical schools. Unless OP is brilliant and knows he can get As then go for it. However, as someone brought up before, it's pride from being a Yale alumni vs pride from being a doctor.
 
More than 50% of Yale Med's current first year class attended an ivy undergrad. If you want to believe that it's all due to "high-achieving self-section" then I guess you can. In my opinion though, it would be silly to ignore the selection going on at the admissions committee level.


I attend rensselaer polytechnic institute; so would i be at a slight disadvantage if I apply to ivy medical schools and peer medical schools?
 
AS A PREMED AT YALE, I WOULD SAY THAT YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY COME HERE. Premed here is hard, as it is anywhere, but several of our premed classes are actually fairly generously curved - like to a B+ or an A- average. If you keep up with your class, you'll do fine. 95% of us get into medical school anyway - so the odds are in your favor. I would warn you that the teaching in the sciences (big lectures) is not as good as that in the humanities (tiny classes, **amazing** professors), and that there's sort of an opportunity cost to studying science here. If you really want to do premed, you'll make it through. Yale is one of the best things that ever happened to me, and you should not pass it up because you're worried about getting in to medical school...

That 95% is a skewed "statistic." If you go to an pre-health org they can say 80% of them get into medical school, but that's because you're looking at a group of people who are trying to get into medical school. Causation =/= correlation.
 
I attend rensselaer polytechnic institute; so would i be at a slight disadvantage if I apply to ivy medical schools and peer medical schools?

Slight disadvantage? Possibly. But if your MCAT/GPA/ECs are up to par with those schools, you have just as good a shot as anyone. While rarer, you'll see some 'random' schools mixed in with all the Ivy League students at interviews for these top programs. But then again, you're going to see a lot of the Yales, Harvards, Hopkins, etc.
 
That 95% is a skewed "statistic." If you go to an pre-health org they can say 80% of them get into medical school, but that's because you're looking at a group of people who are trying to get into medical school. Causation =/= correlation.

Also because most of them either find something that they like more or they get weeded out by the prereqs. Some schools won't write a committee letter for applicants that they don't think are competitive, even if they want to apply.
 
That 95% is a skewed "statistic." If you go to an pre-health org they can say 80% of them get into medical school, but that's because you're looking at a group of people who are trying to get into medical school. Causation =/= correlation.

Right, you're selecting for those students who think they have a good enough shot to even apply in the first place. That being said, if you want it enough, you'll try, and at Yale, that statistic is much higher than at other schools.

However, as someone brought up before, it's pride from being a Yale alumni vs pride from being a doctor.

They're not mutually exclusive, and given what I said earlier, they go hand in hand almost all the time.

Some schools won't write a committee letter for applicants that they don't think are competitive, even if they want to apply.

While this may be the policy at some schools, it's definitely not at Yale. Here, if you want to apply for medical school, you can get a committee letter, given that you ask for one by the appropriate deadline.




Only on SDN would you have people advising you to turn down such an amazing opportunity because of your "potential GPA". If you were to tell other people later on - your friends, family members, classmates - that you passed on Yale because it might've been too hard, you would get many raised eyebrows I think. There are plenty of reasons to turn down a school - finances, school atmosphere, location - but I just think you would be selling yourself short by turning it down for this.

Also, on the off chance that you do not apply to medical school 3-4 years from now because you find another calling in life (which is possible, as we all know of many high school "pre-meds" who do not in fact take that path), you might certainly regret having made such a limiting decision.
 
One consideration I can't speak to directly--practice time. Making the grades at Yale up against much more driven people (notice I do. not. say. smarter) is one thing. Doing this with a substantial outside commitment is quite another. Now, Yale isn't exactly the Big 10. But the person who said to talk to premeds ON SPORTS TEAMS is right on.
 
My main questions are this: If I had a decent MCAT score and good EC's, what are my GPA expectations for mid-tier MD and DO schools?

Sorry, Jordan. Let me redirect to your actual question. I can't give you a hard number on GPA, but yes, if you have a solid application, don't make more than, say, 1 major screwup in your prerequisites, and GO TO YALE, then yes, you will get interviewed and accepted at MID-TIER MD schools, to say nothing of osteopathic (no disrespect meant to them, just trying to answer his question). Obviously assuming other things equal, maximum effort, and broad applications, you can take the thought of not being accepted anywhere out of your mind. So you don't have to worry about that.

Again, like I said, what I WOULD worry about is loan burden. Have a heart-to-heart with your parents (easy to say, I know). One thing that I didn't think of at your life stage (my parents didn't know either) is how paying good money for tuition, etc. would affect their ability to help me with internships, summer opportunities, lag times in the first years after graduation, etc. (Answer: they couldn't.) In their world (and these are well-to-do and cosmopolitan people by the standards of their community, which is not exactly a remote hamlet), a college student is supposed to hustle in the summers, etc. at a regular non-fancy job. This is a worldview that I personally share, but...

If you have the chance to go to Yale or a similar place, you will see a lot of people whose parents (fortunately) are ALSO able to underwrite their internships, etc. I don't want to say they can do it "without blinking" because I don't know their private financial details. But let's just say you'll be with a lot of people who can easily, no question, take the volunteer lab job or the pay-to-volunteer sexy overseas opportunity. This will probably not impact your core strength as a candidate--I mean, Admissions is not composed of total idiots, really--but it will almost definitely result in classmates whose applications have a lot more bells and whistles than yours.

That said, if your hometown is the kind of place that has "spiffy" summer opportunities, and/or it's a place from where you could reasonably conduct a coastal job search during the down times that will inevitably come, then your parents don't have to have quite as much cash on hand, because you can live at home while (say) doing research in the summer.

Bottom line: mid-tier MD or DO? Absolutely. Just know what's up before you commit.
 
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AS A PREMED AT YALE, I WOULD SAY THAT YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY COME HERE. Premed here is hard, as it is anywhere, but several of our premed classes are actually fairly generously curved - like to a B+ or an A- average. If you keep up with your class, you'll do fine.

That's so crazy. I didn't think grade inflation at Ivies was that bad! I always thought maybe it was B average. Literally every premed class at Berkeley is a B- or C+ average. If what you said is true, Yale's GPA is inflated a whole .75-1.00 over Berkeley. OP should definitely go to Yale if this is the case - you can basically be average-slightly above average in every class and have a good enough GPA to get into some decent schools as long as your MCAT is decent-good.
 
There is definitely a lot of summer fellowship and other money, but I do think my point above still stands: there are many, many people who can take the gig, whatever it is, whether a fellowship is involved or not. Let's say (sake of argument) that the OP wanted to do something legit and interesting that wasn't funded, missed deadlines unavoidably, etc. Plan for the fellowship, but also have plans B and C in place.

"Hypothetically speaking," of course, I may myself have been the beneficiary of a lot of this money at a similar institution, but I think "like candy" is a bit of an overstatement. This is especially true regarding financial aid for households that are more than comfortable but not super-rich.
 
Am I the only one that smells troll here? Guy gets into Yale and his goal before he's ever taken a class is to get a so-so GPA so he can make it into a mid-tier or DO school?
 
LOL at the bitter students who are saying pass up Yale to go to a cheaper school. I'm not saying you don't have a valid argument, but as someone who passed up an Ivy because of price due to advice like this, I regret it all the time.

To answer your questions, students from Yale and athletes get a bit of a break with GPA, but not as in you can get under a 3.5. If you are good applicant/nice person, lots of medical schools would love to have a Yalie or athlete come to their school.


I say stay at Yale. Take your science classes at an easier school during the summer or when you graduate. Dont ruin your chances at med school with a yale science gpa.
 
Yale does it right by making the class average an A- or B+ in science courses. The average SAT/ACT scores are in the 98%, these students would be A students at most other places. My undergrad had average ACT/SAT scores are 95% and yet curved to a C+ in science courses.

I would pick Yale over my state school. You'll get better grades and have more name recognition. At my state school, the average science student (different admissions standards for different majors) had much much higher test SAT/ACT and high school class rank (both 95th percentile) than the liberal arts majors so it made science courses extremely hard and lib arts classes a cake walk. Med Schools care about science grades and a little about the ranking of your school. Not only did most of my graduating class have poor science grades, we graduated from a "low ranking" (relatively speaking) school. You won't have that problem.

You could go to Yale, take a science class, see how it goes. If it goes well, keep taking, if it doesn't. Wait until you graduate and take the pre-reqs at an easy grade inflating school (PM if you want a name of one where it is easier than my high school) and get the best of both worlds.
 
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I can only think of one science class that curves to an A- and it is not taught every semester, all the rest are B or B+. For the record, the average GPA at Yale is 0.24 higher than Cal (3.51 vs. 3.27 from http://gradeinflation.com/).

I think that is taking into account all classes - not just premed ones - granted it sounds like averages in premed classes at Yale aren't as high as the person stated but I know that the average GPA in premed classes at Berkeley is around 2.8 (a bit higher than the actual average because often times people who fail end up dropping). Even if it's only .3 greater, that's more reasonable but still a highly significant boost.
 
OP, how did you get into Yale already? Or are you just speculating that you'll get in? Or are you a recruited athlete that already has an offer (don't know how those things work since I was a regular admit).

As for the grade inflation issue, I personally don't think there was that much grade inflation at Yale. Sure, a lot of the prerequisite courses were curved to a B/B+ average, but at the same time there is a very strong student body, which makes it more difficult to get into the top ~40% (A- or A grades). I personally was getting straight B's in my prerequisite courses and it wasn't necessarily due to a lack of effort. I was just scoring average among all my classmates. I then took Orgo II at a state university and got the highest scores in the class for each exam. Take that for what it's worth.
 
. I then took Orgo II at a state university and got the highest scores in the class for each exam. Take that for what it's worth.

I had a similar experience except I went from a flagship with a very competitive science program to a non-flag ship run of the mill state school who let just anyone be a science major.

There are easy schools out there and it is VERY easy to get straight As and for someone with high stats, they tend to offer a lot of scholarships for undergrad (not post-baccs).
 
What opportunities? The advantage you get in med school admissions with Yale on your CV is pretty small, and certainly isn't worth what you'll be paying in tuition. It's not like you'll be networking either, so no need to worry about their alumni network or job fairs. Graduating from Yale in undergrad won't help you get a better residency or a better job as a physician either. In fact, no one will care where you went to undergrad the day you matriculate into medical school.

Yes, Yale CAN be worth it, but not as a pre-med. Now if you're business major with his eyes set on an analyst job at Goldman Sachs or Leiman Bros., then yes, Yale is worth it because that's pretty much the only way you're getting hired at one of those companies and even the starting salaries they'll pay you will pay off your loans within 1-3 years. If your career goals include some form of grad school though then you're better off saving the money you would have spent on Yale College of A&S tuition to instead put towards Yale SOM tuition.


What is this "Leiman Bros." that you speak of?
 
LOL, Check your private messages. Yeah, we totally got the shaft in the med school game.

Being in the top 5% of your high school (95th percentile) is not the same as your undergraduate test average being 95%. I have no idea how you even confuse the two.

LOL
 
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