Uni of Western Australia to offer MD degree in 2012

[jaketheory]

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I've started to consider UWA's medical program and in visiting the western australian medical student society webpage I stumbled upon a news clip commenting on the upcoming changes to the courses offered by the uni of WA. I googled it and apparently they are following Melbourne. They will be condensing their undergrad offerings and moving their professional degrees to graduate level with the introduction of the Doctor of Medicine degree. The changes dont appear to be confirmed but are likely to be approved by the Uni Senate and instituted with the classes commencing 2012.

UWA currently does not accept international student in the graduate entry stream, but as the undergrad stream will no longer exist, the new MD course will likely be available to international applicants.

 

[jaketheory]

done some more reading on this. i find it quite interesting: UWA is looking to have a 3 year MD degree. It will require either having completed a 'pre-med' major in the new UWA Bachelor of Health (or possibly equivalent units elsewhere?) or a one year pre-med grad diploma after any bachelor degree. Thus high school leavers can still earn the MD in 6 years (rather than 3 for bachelors plus 4 for medical degree) if they choose the appropriate premed pathway.

http://www.futureframework.uwa.edu.au/_nocache/?a=84109

 

[JanikeyDoc]

Even so it will not mean that the MD would be equal to one from a US school, that would be highly misleading. I think the bias towards US graduates is going to increase. This might not seem relevant but Aussie schools seem to heavily market themselves to North Americans. From what I know from people who are studying in Australia is that the science education is "light", in other words you will have to do a ton of studying on your own to do well on the USMLE. And that is very relevant considering the fact that it will be nearly impossible for internationals to stay and work in Australia after graduation in the coming years, especially from 2012 onwards when the number of graduates doubles.

 

[redshifteffect]

Even so it will not mean that the MD would be equal to one from a US school, that would be highly misleading. I think the bias towards US graduates is going to increase. This might not seem relevant but Aussie schools seem to heavily market themselves to North Americans. From what I know from people who are studying in Australia is that the science education is "light", in other words you will have to do a ton of studying on your own to do well on the USMLE. And that is very relevant considering the fact that it will be nearly impossible for internationals to stay and work in Australia after graduation in the coming years, especially from 2012 onwards when the number of graduates doubles.

Actually the American MD degree is not a real "MD"

The MD was used in Europe for someone who did research after obtaining their undergraduate medical degree (or MBBS). It's only because America requires you to get a degree prior to your medical degree that they called their program an "MD". However the American medical degree is still an undergraduate medical degree...and therefore not a true MD.

 

[jaketheory]

Even so it will not mean that the MD would be equal to one from a US school, that would be highly misleading. I think the bias towards US graduates is going to increase. This might not seem relevant but Aussie schools seem to heavily market themselves to North Americans. From what I know from people who are studying in Australia is that the science education is "light", in other words you will have to do a ton of studying on your own to do well on the USMLE. And that is very relevant considering the fact that it will be nearly impossible for internationals to stay and work in Australia after graduation in the coming years, especially from 2012 onwards when the number of graduates doubles.

at no point was i trying to compare the Australian MD with a US MD. they are not in the same country so they could not be expected to be "equivalent". Only in the US can you get a US degree.

from what i have read, the australian schools are not taking the criticism about there lack of basic context lightly and are making changes. i know for the USydMP curriculum review this was a major focus point.

as of today i have my PR visa, so i'm not worried about not being able to stay in Aus. just letting others know of new programs that will be available.

 

[jaketheory]

Actually the American MD degree is not a real "MD"

The MD was used in Europe for someone who did research after obtaining their undergraduate medical degree (or MBBS). It's only because America requires you to get a degree prior to your medical degree that they called their program an "MD". However the American medical degree is still an undergraduate medical degree...and therefore not a true MD.

The US MD is a true doctoral degree. Despite this, it is undergrad medical education.

It is conisdered a doctorate because both it requires a prior undergrad degree and is taught at the graduate level (usually called postgraduate in Aus and other British educational systems).

The MD is offered in many other countries, not just the US. Japanese as well as Turkish medical students earn the MD out of high school, for example.

Nor was the US the first offer the MD as the first professional degree in medicine. In the early 1800's all the English med schools (which wre only Cambridge and Oxford at the time) awarded the bachelor of arts after the preclinical years and then a bachelors of medicine (which i believe is still true today, at least for those 2 schools). at the same time the scottish uni's offered the MD. in towards the middle of the 1800's a royal decree was passed that required all UK medical schools award the MBBCh (latin version of MBBS), thus there were no MD primary medical qualifications in the UK from then on. Early US medical schools initally offered the MB. Other would later offer the MB after 2 years of preclinical and then the MD after the clinicals.0 Not too much later all US medical schools were offering the MD. Note this is relatively recent in the history of US medical schools. Northwestern was still awarding the MB in the early 1900's. Most all US schools were already awarding the MD before the huge expansion in the number of US schools. The flexner report further solidified the presence of US medical education as graduate level.

The traditional MD in the british educational system is a research degree. The US MD is a coursework degree. They are not comparable. Australian uni's offer the MD for which there are no tuition fees (for locals) as it is funded by the Research Training Scheme (RST). Medical degrees, whether they are MBBS or MD, are not research degrees and thus are ineligible under the RST. They are commonwealth supported places (CSP's). In offering the graduate level medical degrees, the universities must negotiate a transfer of places from the undergraduate course to the new graduate course as the number of CSP's allocated to a specific uni is strictly controlled by the federal govt.

 

[jaketheory]

as a further example, USyd no longer offers an undergrad nursing qualification. one must either complete a bachelors first or concurrently with their masters of nursing degree. this degree however is not the same as a bachelor of nursing though both are first professional degrees. but the master of nursing is a graduate first professional degree, just at the MD is.