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Groove

Groove

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Anybody know of any SDGs hiring within an hour from decent ski slopes in a good med/mal environment with low doc attrition, stable ED contract and a partnership track that doesn't require pagan rituals and blood sacrifices?
 
Groove said:
Anybody know of any SDGs hiring within an hour from decent ski slopes in a good med/mal environment with low doc attrition, stable ED contract and a partnership track that doesn't require pagan rituals and blood sacrifices?
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Ask WhiteCoat if his group is hiring. Lots of jobs in BC, although those are employed.
 
Here's the rub - BC requires US Boarded docs to have equivalency in residency training years to work as a ED doc - EM residency is 5 years in Canada. Since most places are 3 years stateside, 4 tops, this won't work for the vast majority of us.

Yours truly is also a maple turned eagle 😉
 
bravotwozero said:
Here's the rub - BC requires US Boarded docs to have equivalency in residency training years to work as a ED doc - EM residency is 5 years in Canada. Since most places are 3 years stateside, 4 tops, this won't work for the vast majority of us.

Yours truly is also a maple turned eagle 😉
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Very true...
 
RustedFox said:
I thought that I remembered our resident Maples-turned-Eagles (Apollyon, Veers) saying the opposite. I could be wrong. Guys?
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Thanks for the shout out, brother, but I'm only honorary. Born/raised Buffalo, regular at Swiss Chalet and the Beer Store.
 
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God the Denver market compensation sucks... I tried talking to some SDGs I had contacts with out there and they all seem to have joined USACS. I spoke with them and was expecting a pay cut but he told me the Denver sites are all paying $125/hr, $140/hr, $160/hr highest. Their firefighters are making $200/hr and are primarily needed in PA/OH. I think the highest paying position was Pueblo and was $195/hr. Man, I can remember interviewing fresh out of residency with the director of that Pueblo hospital several years ago and they had this 20 month buy in if you lived within a certain radius and the rate was $300/hr as partner. At the time I had no interest in Pueblo, but can you imagine putting up with a buy in at $150/hr (if recollection serves) for 2 years only to make partner at $300/hr for 4 years and then USACS gobbles you up and now you are making $195/hr! These guys are like locusts, they are everywhere in Co it seems. What gives?

When the recruiter told me $125/hr there was literally just silence on the phone. I go "And...you guys have doctors willing to work for that rate??? Out of curiosity, are most of your hires new grads?" "95% of them you say?" lol, oh man... talk about selling yourself short.
 
Groove said:
God the Denver market compensation sucks... I tried talking to some SDGs I had contacts with out there and they all seem to have joined USACS. I spoke with them and was expecting a pay cut but he told me the Denver sites are all paying $125/hr, $140/hr, $160/hr highest. Their firefighters are making $200/hr and are primarily needed in PA/OH. I think the highest paying position was Pueblo and was $195/hr. Man, I can remember interviewing fresh out of residency with the director of that Pueblo hospital several years ago and they had this 20 month buy in if you lived within a certain radius and the rate was $300/hr as partner. At the time I had no interest in Pueblo, but can you imagine putting up with a buy in at $150/hr (if recollection serves) for 2 years only to make partner at $300/hr for 4 years and then USACS gobbles you up and now you are making $195/hr! These guys are like locusts, they are everywhere in Co it seems. What gives?

When the recruiter told me $125/hr there was literally just silence on the phone. I go "And...you guys have doctors willing to work for that rate??? Out of curiosity, are most of your hires new grads?" "95% of them you say?" lol, oh man... talk about selling yourself short.
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Insane. I know nurses making $150 an hour. Government work pays more than $125. Urgent care pays more than $125. Telehealth pays more than $125. This is what happens when new residencies sprout like mushrooms. This is the foreseeable future of EM.

Work towards FI, do a non CMS-related fellowship, and figure out a few other income streams. USACS is coming for my gig, too.
 
Fox800 said:
Have had similar conversations with the CO recruiters for USACS and had to pick my jaw up off the floor at their rates. Horrible.
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It's not just CO. Houston and Dallas are the same, and who wants to live there?
 
Houston and Dallas are NOT the same, sorry. I work in Houston and make more than twice what USACS is offering in Colorado

Also, houston happens to only be the 4th most populous city in America, so apparently a lot of people want to live here...


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I stopped paying my ACEP membership this year I wont go back.
 
RustedFox said:
If ACEP had any cojones, they'd actually do something about this whole awful ball of wax, but... ACEP.
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I can't understand who is taking these horrible USACS jobs. I quit one site when USACS took over because they were going to institute a 15% pay cut.

As far as Dallas, TX, who hates it? One of the most liveable cities in the country and I considered moving there this year. Houston OTH....:sendoff:
 
GeneralVeers said:
I can't understand who is taking these horrible USACS jobs. I quit one site when USACS took over because they were going to institute a 15% pay cut.

As far as Dallas, TX, who hates it? One of the most liveable cities in the country and I considered moving there this year. Houston OTH....:sendoff:
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I agree wholeheartedly. I would rather just do locums than work for 150/hour. The "lean" model that the CMGs apply to staffing needs to be applied to non-clinical employees as well. Yes, this means you, Doctor-In-Name-Only. You best pick up a stethoscope, or do twice the work that you presently do.
 
RustedFox said:
I agree wholeheartedly. I would rather just do locums than work for 150/hour. The "lean" model that the CMGs apply to staffing needs to be applied to non-clinical employees as well. Yes, this means you, Doctor-In-Name-Only. You best pick up a stethoscope, or do twice the work that you presently do.
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I'd rather do UC or telehealth- boring, but lower liability, no nights. Residency directors need to be savvier about this. My residency did a poor job of explaining anything about the real world; I can only hope things have changed for the better.
 
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RustedFox said:
I agree wholeheartedly. I would rather just do locums than work for 150/hour. The "lean" model that the CMGs apply to staffing needs to be applied to non-clinical employees as well. Yes, this means you, Doctor-In-Name-Only. You best pick up a stethoscope, or do twice the work that you presently do.
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Uhhhh...I make a lot more than that I’m academics....
 
GeneralVeers said:
I can't understand who is taking these horrible USACS jobs. I quit one site when USACS took over because they were going to institute a 15% pay cut.

As far as Dallas, TX, who hates it? One of the most liveable cities in the country and I considered moving there this year. Houston OTH....:sendoff:
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From what I could gather from the USACS recruiter, they are primarily hiring residents right out of residency for the denver positions. Again, he stressed the general rate for the greater Denver area being $125/hr. The benefits are not bad compared to IC, but still would probably only bring it up to $140 or $160/hr. I'm flabbergasted that an ABEM or BE doc would be willing to work for those pennies, especially considering that most of them probably have significant debt burden. I wonder if that's how they get them, they offer 2.9% refinancing of educational loans, but still....

Something about when you make partner, you get 75K "equity" whatever that is... I was still reeling from the $125/hr by the time he got to that part. That's one of the shortest recruiter conversations I've had in awhile. Ridiculous. Surely these SDGs who are selling out to USACS are getting some sort of equity or profit sharing/kickback? Man, this happens to me every time I try to evaluate the Denver or CO region. I'm starting to think it's just not ever going to be in the cards. If I could find a nice gig near some mountains with a decent partnership track and a "not so painful" payout, I'd consider it but these kinds of offers are ludicrous.
 
Groove said:
From what I could gather from the USACS recruiter, they are primarily hiring residents right out of residency for the denver positions. Again, he stressed the general rate for the greater Denver area being $125/hr. The benefits are not bad compared to IC, but still would probably only bring it up to $140 or $160/hr. I'm flabbergasted that an ABEM or BE doc would be willing to work for those pennies, especially considering that most of them probably have significant debt burden. I wonder if that's how they get them, they offer 2.9% refinancing of educational loans, but still....

Something about when you make partner, you get 75K "equity" whatever that is... I was still reeling from the $125/hr by the time he got to that part. That's one of the shortest recruiter conversations I've had in awhile. Ridiculous. Surely these SDGs who are selling out to USACS are getting some sort of equity or profit sharing/kickback? Man, this happens to me every time I try to evaluate the Denver or CO region. I'm starting to think it's just not ever going to be in the cards. If I could find a nice gig near some mountains with a decent partnership track and a "not so painful" payout, I'd consider it but these kinds of offers are ludicrous.
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Denver isn't near the mountains 🙂.

Would you consider Portland, Salt Lake, Tahoe or Bozeman, or Jackson? I hear they all have some decent groups, although Jackson and Bozeman never have jobs. Ever. Ask WCI- I think he's in SLC, which is near some nice mountains.

Half of EM docs want to live near the mountains- it's tough.
 
This phenomenon is not unique to EM. I'm an anesthesiologist who's been looking to move to the mountains for years. Just can't pull the trigger because the reimbrsement is so low. Anesthesia jobs in Denver pay about twice what is quoted above for EM (with 4-6 weeks vacation), and I make over twice those Denver salaries in flyover country with 13 weeks off. Better to make fat stacks and spend the extra vacation time traveling (I'm in Denver right now, headed to Aspen this morning, then on to Moab later in the week).
 
Groove said:
If I could find a nice gig near some mountains with a decent partnership track and a "not so painful" payout, I'd consider it but these kinds of offers are ludicrous.
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How bout the northeast? My buddy from residency found a good SDG partnership-track job in NH. Sure, the skiing is wimpier than out west, but there are also more ski resorts than out west so the lines are probably shorter.
 
Groove said:
God the Denver market compensation sucks... I tried talking to some SDGs I had contacts with out there and they all seem to have joined USACS. I spoke with them and was expecting a pay cut but he told me the Denver sites are all paying $125/hr, $140/hr, $160/hr highest. Their firefighters are making $200/hr and are primarily needed in PA/OH. I think the highest paying position was Pueblo and was $195/hr. Man, I can remember interviewing fresh out of residency with the director of that Pueblo hospital several years ago and they had this 20 month buy in if you lived within a certain radius and the rate was $300/hr as partner. At the time I had no interest in Pueblo, but can you imagine putting up with a buy in at $150/hr (if recollection serves) for 2 years only to make partner at $300/hr for 4 years and then USACS gobbles you up and now you are making $195/hr! These guys are like locusts, they are everywhere in Co it seems. What gives?

When the recruiter told me $125/hr there was literally just silence on the phone. I go "And...you guys have doctors willing to work for that rate??? Out of curiosity, are most of your hires new grads?" "95% of them you say?" lol, oh man... talk about selling yourself short.
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There's a group in Denver (technically my partners now) that aren't USACS. Carepoint. Check there.

But if you think $125-150/hour for two years is ridiculous for a pre-partner I'd stop looking for a partnership job near skiing. There's a price to be paid. You can usually get a little more by having experience, but it's still usually in that sort of range. Nobody is going to pay you $225 + benefits to be a pre-partner when the partners are making $250 without benefits.
 
Dr.McNinja said:
Yeah, somebody posted on the FB group about getting $115 an hour and wanted to know what benefits were there.
I was making more than that while moonlighting in rural NC almost a decade ago.
Some people are just dumb.
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No they're not. They just prefer living 10 miles from a ski resort rather than rural NC.
 
The White Coat Investor said:
There's a group in Denver (technically my partners now) that aren't USACS. Carepoint. Check there.

But if you think $125-150/hour for two years is ridiculous for a pre-partner I'd stop looking for a partnership job near skiing. There's a price to be paid. You can usually get a little more by having experience, but it's still usually in that sort of range. Nobody is going to pay you $225 + benefits to be a pre-partner when the partners are making $250 without benefits.
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I think the issue with most of the Denver jobs isn't the pre-partner pay, but the fact that it's USACS and so you never are a partner, no matter what they call it, so the low pay is for nothing. In terms of SDG pre-partner pay, some (Colorado Springs) pay fairly decently. If you have the choice, it's obviously better to earn decent coin pre partner and then have a buy-in, especially with so many groups getting swallowed up before new grads make partner leaving many a doc with two plus years of poor pay with nothing to show for it.
 
miacomet said:
I think the issue with most of the Denver jobs isn't the pre-partner pay, but the fact that it's USACS and so you never are a partner, no matter what they call it, so the low pay is for nothing. In terms of SDG pre-partner pay, some (Colorado Springs) pay fairly decently. If you have the choice, it's obviously better to earn decent coin pre partner and then have a buy-in, especially with so many groups getting swallowed up before new grads make partner leaving many a doc with two plus years of poor pay with nothing to show for it.
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I was talking about the SDG jobs, not the CMG jobs. Maybe it should be called a LDG though. Obviously if you know my history on here you know not advocating for anyone to work for USACS no matter where they want to live.
 
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The White Coat Investor said:
I was talking about the SDG jobs, not the CMG jobs. Maybe it should be called a LDG though. Obviously if you know my history on here you know not advocating for anyone to work for USACS no matter where they want to live.
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Lol. Totally. I would NEVER!! The ever-shrinking LDG and SDG island...
 
I believe if you have to work nights weekends and holidays and deal with EM you might as well be reasonably compensated while you can. I would do travel gigs if I lived in Denver.
 
Brigade4Radiant said:
I believe if you have to work nights weekends and holidays and deal with EM you might as well be reasonably compensated while you can. I would do travel gigs if I lived in Denver.
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$150/hour x 150 hours/month x 12 months = $270K + benefits. Doing that for two years in order to get a job that pays $300/hour x 100 hours/month x 12 months = $360K in a place that is awesome to live is a bet that many people, including me, have taken. Could the CMG flavor of the month take over at any time? Sure. But so far it's been 8 years for me, 6 at the higher pay level. I figure I'm ahead and every year a CMG doesn't take over, I'm that much further ahead.

But if you'd rather get on a plane 4 times a month in order to make $350/hour and be away from your family/that awesome place you live 2+ weeks a month, knock yourself out.
 
The White Coat Investor said:
No they're not. They just prefer living 10 miles from a ski resort rather than rural NC.
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I wouldn't live in rural NC for $120 an hour either. It's what I got paid as a resident when moonlighting. That's the point I was making.
You can live wherever you want, although 10min from a ski mountain is usually not close to an airport. The jobs they're talking about? They aren't where you live and work. They're in BFE high plains.
 
Dr.McNinja said:
I wouldn't live in rural NC for $120 an hour either. It's what I got paid as a resident when moonlighting. That's the point I was making.
You can live wherever you want, although 10min from a ski mountain is usually not close to an airport. The jobs they're talking about? They aren't where you live and work. They're in BFE high plains.
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You could strategically locate yourself in Salt Lake to be just about twenty minutes from skiing and from the airport. But, smog...nothing's perfect!
 
The White Coat Investor said:
There's a group in Denver (technically my partners now) that aren't USACS. Carepoint. Check there.

But if you think $125-150/hour for two years is ridiculous for a pre-partner I'd stop looking for a partnership job near skiing. There's a price to be paid. You can usually get a little more by having experience, but it's still usually in that sort of range. Nobody is going to pay you $225 + benefits to be a pre-partner when the partners are making $250 without benefits.
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Thanks, I'll check with them. No, I don't think pre-partnership tracks are unreasonable, but USACS isn't an SDG. Those are the rates that they are paying their FTE docs. The sad thing for me was that the group that sold out to USACS I had actually interviewed with a few years back and turned down an offer due to not having my loans paid off and couldn't justify pre-partner rate with my gonzo 7% interest 400K loans. Now that those are gone, I was hoping the partnership track would still be in place but lo and behold they had become USACS. Glad I didn't take the job back then...
 
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Dr.McNinja said:
I wouldn't live in rural NC for $120 an hour either. It's what I got paid as a resident when moonlighting. That's the point I was making.
You can live wherever you want, although 10min from a ski mountain is usually not close to an airport. The jobs they're talking about? They aren't where you live and work. They're in BFE high plains.
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Hmmmm google maps says I'm 23 miles from the airport and I'm 10 miles from Snowbird, closer to the backcountry.

I know Denver isn't the same though.
 
miacomet said:
You could strategically locate yourself in Salt Lake to be just about twenty minutes from skiing and from the airport. But, smog...nothing's perfect!
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Yea, living in a bowl of mountains has its drawbacks. It was just as bad this summer as in the Winter due to wildfires. The better the powder the better the smog.
 
What is a unicorn, in the context of this thread? And there are other things I don't know like SDG (Single democratic group?) CMG (that's like Teamhealth, CEP, etc. "Content management group" LOL).

We need a stickie about acronyms.
 
thegenius said:
What is a unicorn, in the context of this thread? And there are other things I don't know like SDG (Single democratic group?) CMG (that's like Teamhealth, CEP, etc. "Content management group" LOL).

We need a stickie about acronyms.
Click to expand...

Unicorn = job that "has it all" and is generally (like a unicorn) mythical and too good to be true.
SDG = Small Democratic Group
CMG = Contract Management Group
NES = Nintendo Entertainment System
 
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Love my 2 unicorns.. 2 great opportunities. How can 1 person be so lucky.
 
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