uniformed services university escape plan?

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I don't even think that that would help. If they think it was intentional, then they would probably still demand that you pay them back.

I also am not totally sure what good "shooting yourself in the leg" would do you if you're employed as a military physician. Sure, you'd get some time off to recuperate, but a broken leg isn't enough to stop you from performing your clinical duties. (I've seen surgeons operate with broken legs.) Yeah, they wouldn't be able to deploy you to Afghanistan or anything, but there's really no reason why you couldn't take care of patients at a stateside hospital, and serve out your commitment in the US.



No, you're pretty much right. The Jarvik-7 isn't that great of a device, and doesn't get used that much, because there are a lot of problems associated with it.

And, while he may never have come out and said that he was a cardiologist, when you have a "physician" (and I use the term loosely in Jarvik's case) talking about the virtues of a cholesterol drug, what do you think the average person is going to believe? It would be like having a psychotherapist/psychologist promote the latest antidepressant.

I agree that the Jarvik stuff is misleading, but everything on TV is now. The best recommendation I can give is to simply do research instead of trusting all that stuff.

I'm not sure about the shooting thing. I said it as a joke, but I was talking to some infantry guys the other day and they mentioned how two of the guys miraculously shot themselves in the leg....with an m16. That is a pretty long gun to accidentally shoot yourself. They didn't have to go to iraq because of that evidently, and the guy I was talking to said his fellow infantrymen suspected they did it on purpose. That is obviously a little different than being a physician. USUHS acts like the no tuition is a real perk, but it really isn't. It just preys on people who don't view the longterm financial stuff very well. If you decide to go there it better be because you want to do medicine in the military or on an indian reservation somewhere.
 
I agree that the Jarvik stuff is misleading, but everything on TV is now. The best recommendation I can give is to simply do research instead of trusting all that stuff.

Yeah...put expecting the lay public to actually research Jarvik's background (or to even understand the distinction) is kind of asking a lot. I mean, a lot of people don't even really understand a psychologist vs. psychiatrist, or an optometrist vs. an ophthalmologist, etc.

Well, whatever. He's no longer pushing lipitor on TV.

USUHS acts like the no tuition is a real perk, but it really isn't. It just preys on people who don't view the longterm financial stuff very well. If you decide to go there it better be because you want to do medicine in the military or on an indian reservation somewhere.

Well, if you DO want to practice medicine in the military, then no tuition IS a real perk. But you're right - you had better not do USUHS for the money.
 
I don't even think that that would help. If they think it was intentional, then they would probably still demand that you pay them back.

I also am not totally sure what good "shooting yourself in the leg" would do you if you're employed as a military physician. Sure, you'd get some time off to recuperate, but a broken leg isn't enough to stop you from performing your clinical duties. (I've seen surgeons operate with broken legs.) Yeah, they wouldn't be able to deploy you to Afghanistan or anything, but there's really no reason why you couldn't take care of patients at a stateside hospital, and serve out your commitment in the US.

I had a buddy who shot himself through the foot. It was accidental, a clean wound, and he tried to conceal by doing such things as running five miles the next day. Eventually the man found out and he was crushed, but not sent home. He didn't want to go home anyways, it was just an accident, but the military takes a pretty dim view towards letting bullets leave the barrel at the wrong time.

Shooting yourself in the leg has got to be one of the stupidest ways to sham out of military service. Even if you get out of service, you are still going to face charges for having a "negligent discharge", plus it hurts like hell and you most likely will be investigated for malingering.

At any rate, I am pretty sure the military doesn't trust physicians or chaplins with live rounds.
 
Oh come now . . .

We do receive training on the Beretta, and at minimum a "familiarization" with the M16. You are free to take the course and qualify on the M16 at your discretion. On deployments I have been told we are issued the Beretta. I hear periodic stories about the docs in warzones carrying the rifle, although my understanding of the Geneva Convention is that this is not particular appropriate.

Eh, it's back or forth.

Generally, Red Cross personel are not considered to be combatants, and it's illegal per Geneva Conventions to fire upon anyone with the Red Cross (or Crescent) on their uniform. Doctors are generally not the ones who are going to be on the battlefield at all. I would imagine that they would fall under the category of "non-combatant", since they are there to heal, not to kill.

Keep in mind, though, that the people we are generally fighting right now do not adhere to the Geneva Conventions. Therefore, it becomes entirely appropriate to arm doctors if they are going through a particularly rough part of sandbox. I've heard more than one story from military (and civilian) doctors being forced to engage in combat with the enemy.

The thing about the Geneva Conventions is that they become null and void as soon as one side starts ignoring them. For instance, civilians are considered non-combatants until they pick up a gun. A medic is permitted to carry a weapon for self-defense and still be protected under the Geneva Convention, but as soon as the medic engages in offensive actions or picks up an offensive weapon (anti-tank, explosive, sniper rifle, etc), then the medic is now considered fair game.

Considering that most of our enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan are farmers-turned-militants who know nothing of the Geneva Conventions, it becomes necessary, morals or no, for doctors to be able to defend themselves in combat.

Long story short; yes. Doctors are probably protected under Geneva. Does it matter right now? No. We aren't fighting a civilized army; we're fighting people who probably don't know anything about Geneva.
 
Oh come now . . .

We do receive training on the Beretta, and at minimum a "familiarization" with the M16. You are free to take the course and qualify on the M16 at your discretion. On deployments I have been told we are issued the Beretta. I hear periodic stories about the docs in warzones carrying the rifle, although my understanding of the Geneva Convention is that this is not particular appropriate.

Just poking you military docs a bit. Don't take it personally, as a new 2LT in an infantry platoon, it took a while for them to trust me with live rounds too.

I feel sorry for you having to rely on the Beretta 9 mm or the M-16. Both are complete pieces of ****. I guess the M16 is okay, but the M4 (carbine version) is just much better. I've never heard anyone say anything nice about the baretta. They are hard to keep clean and they don't have very good stopping power. I never carried one outside of the wire, so It's not a personal testimony.
 
Keep in mind, though, that the people we are generally fighting right now do not adhere to the Geneva Conventions.
Eh, in fairness, though, the U.S. doesn't either. Take a look at the international condemnation we're getting now for the president veto'ing the motion to outlaw waterboarding and other forms of soft torture. We have no problem doing it, apparently, but if a U.S. serviceman was POW and waterboarding was used on him, you'd hear a lot of screaming about "torture". Without a doubt.

The only time the U.S. talks about the Geneva Conventions and humane treatment of prisoners of war is when one of our own gets taken POW by the enemy.

By the way, the U.S. did not ratify the Geneva Conventions concerning humane treatment of prisoners of war. I have no interest in debating about the merits of torture, but for us to demand enemies to adhere to the Geneva Conventions when we haven't ratified them and don't follow them ourselves is a bit silly. We don't conduct some of the extreme torture that other nations do (or at least I hope we don't), we also hold folks for years without trial, forbid contact to the outside world and turn over unconvicted suspect to foreign nations for torture. We may be a "civilized army" (your term) but we're not exactly poster boys for the Geneva Convention ourselves.
 
First of all, I cannot believe the level of inane comments on this thread, however, as a graduate of USUHS and a current active duty physician who is informed on this topic, one must understand exactly what one is getting into when they join HPSP or go to USUHS. If one is contemplating entering USUHS just to leave it, you are not the type of individual even worthy of entering the school. If you want to see what it takes to be a military physician, I suggest that you see the apolitical movie "Fighting for Life" about USUHS and being a military physician. I believe that those of you who are utterly self serving, such as the one who began this thread appears to be, probably do not have what it takes.

First of all, I had no prior service and was a direct commission, so I was paid as a 2nd lieutenant with zero years of active duty (see pay rate on the web with tax free housing and food allowance and all health care paid for), I owed 7 years of active duty pay back after my training was completed (internship and residency). At that time, one could depart the military. One also needs to complete something called inactive ready reserve which is where you will be on a list for being called up if you do not serve 8 years of active duty or reserve time you may be called up for a certain amount of time after you leave (check specifics of this online).

Your pay includes board certification pay once you are board certified, incentive specialty pay once you have completed residency which is based on your specialty, as well as a MASP which is 15K per year payable when not in training. You are eligible for MSPs, multiyear specialty bonuses when you have completed your obligation which are 2,3,or 4 years available when you have completed you obligation. All of these bonuses are in addition to your basic pay which varies by rank as well as years in that rank. Expect to get promoted every 6 years. You graduate as a captain, get promoted to Major 6 years later and Lieutenant Colonel 6 years after that. Promotions become harder after the rank of Major. There are also military educational certifications that one must get along the way, Basic Training, Officer Advanced Course, and Intermediate Level Education ( the new name for the former Command General Staff College education).

In terms of getting out of your obligation, it is nearly impossible. One can try to pay one's way out of the obligation, usually $100 to $150k per year owed in time, but even getting a straight answer in this amount was difficult. I know of individuals who tried this and they were unable to figure out a way to be even in the position to pay this amount, although there are sporadic reports of this occurring.

In terms of being gay, the Army does not really care anymore unless it is truly disrupting unit cohesion, which is usually not an issue in the medical corps. Generally, if one is gay in the medical corps, they still have to fulfill their obligation.

In terms of getting out due for a medical reason, this additionally is difficult as they can always find something for you to do even if it is not in your specialty. I know of physicians who have had an amputation who are not separated from the military and still can contribute.

No one gets shot, although if you are AWOL (absent without leave) you better not try to obtain a medical license in the U.S. as you will be tried via the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) and spend time in the Federal Penitentiary at Fort Leavenworth. You will have to try medicine in some other country which does not have an extradition arrangement with the U.S.

I regards to what I have gotten for my service to date, I will not sugar coat the benefits nor detractions. Benefits: far better training than civilian the local institutions where I trained during my residency, no loans, no health care deductions, not worrying about re-imbursements to make the hospital money thus the residency was more academic (no one has ever failed the boards for my specialty since the residency began over 20 years ago), interesting patients without having to see the dregs of society (no IV drug users, no gang related incidents - unless the military hospital where you work has a local trauma contract with the city where it is located , i.e. San Antonio) and lastly the ability to work with others who are all on the same team and primarily want to make things work for essentially altruistic reasons as this for some makes up for the detractions I have listed below.

Detractions- Lower pay even with the physician bonuses, fewer options where to work and no guarantee that you will get your first choice of these limited options after training, political power of other allied medical providers other than physicians due to rank (nurses, physical therapists, occupational therapists, hospital administrators) as they may have equal or higher rank as you thus they are less under the control of the physicians whose work support all of the other medical providers ( generally ) in the civilian world. Little control over your work environment thus if you hate your boss, you cannot just quit, you must stick it out until either he or she leaves or you PCS (permanent change of station - not really permanent, but it means you get assigned to another location), the hospital command may additionally decide that they want to add a particular new service for your specialty and say "get it done" even if you do not want to.

Not everyone can work in this environment, but to plan to cheat the Government via defaulting purposely on your loans or by planning the ill-advised going AWOL from USUHS probably indicates that you would be an unethical physician and perhaps another career choice is indicated, one which fits better with your lack of moral principles.
 
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