Uninvolved during MS1, now panicking

[ms1990]

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Hi,

I'm currently an MS1, and as we're getting close to the year's end and I'm starting to panick. Everyone says that M1 and M2 are the time to get involved in ECs and start research, and I feel like I really tried but just failed

I've volunteered here and there, but I didn't get the leadership positions I applied to and really wanted; I was only involved in one or two clubs and didn't get in, so now I feel like there's nothing else I can really apply to. My research project that I was hoping to start right about now ended up not taking off. I feel like I'm so behind my classmates who are involved in multiple things, already started on research, etc.

I'm doing all right in school, but feel so subpar in everything else. I want a west coast residency but feel like it's fairly competitive over there and with the way things are going, am just feeling like I have nothing to show for my entire first year.

I'm looking for advice on if this is a normal situation, for ECs that people get involved that don't necessarily involve school clubs (since that's not going great for me..), and anything that might be helpful?

Thank you!

 

[dyspareunia]

Think about the number of leadership positions available, then think about how many people are in your class, then realize that most people are not involved (significantly) in a single thing.

Chill.

 

[evilbooyaa]

First off - ECs (in the sense that you're thinking of) don't really matter unless it's something really special or really unique.

If you want a west coast residency, focus on doing really well in school, figuring out what specialty you want to do, and if it is a competitive one, start doing research in it.

 

[mcloaf]

If your research project didn't get off the ground then find another one, it's not hard. By and large I've ignored all the interest group/club positions at my school.

 

[Daodejing]

you have a huge chunk of time coming up called summer - maybe you've heard of it - that's about the average time when the overwhelming majority of students begin to get involved in anything other than classes, if at all.

 

[madchemist89]

Don't worry about clubs or any of that stuff. Get a research project underway this summer. Do you have any hobbies or interests? If you have a hobby you enjoy, I encourage you to pursue that hobby because you will enjoy it and it will be far more interesting to talk about with other people than any club ever will.

 

[ms1990]

Thanks everyone; I think I was having a bit of a panic attack moment earlier.

It's just hard to see clearly when everyone you talk to seems to be involved in a variety of things, and you feel like that's what you're supposed to be doing

 

[Psai]

A lot of those positions are bs anyway. One time my school's emergency medicine group had a 20 dollar membership fee and did jack. They had like one meeting and didn't even set up the intubation clinic that's done every year. But you know those kids are writing "president of EM interest group" on their ERAS.

 

[mulberry]

Who is the program director going to pick for residency- the person with 1 publication and a below average step score, or you, with a 250+ step score and no pubs? Chances are they're going to pick you. Focus on understanding the material and studying for step 1 in MS2 before you begin to panic.

 

[dyspareunia]

Who is the program director going to pick for residency- the person with 1 publication and a below average step score, or you, with a 250+ step score and no pubs? Chances are they're going to pick you. Focus on understanding the material and studying for step 1 in MS2 before you begin to panic.

The PD is going to pick the 250 with a pub. Nice try.

 

[HooliganSnail]

I was not involved in any interest club or group, and I still matched my #1 in a competative speciality.

 

[GangaMaster]

I thought he meant romantically involved with anyone.

 

[ms1990]

What's the consensus on smaller positions like secretary and treasurer?

I actually like the organizational stuff that goes into those positions (used to be secretary for some clubs in undergrad) but it seems soo insignificant in the grand scheme of things haha. at the same time I guess some EC is better than absolutely no EC!

 

[Psai]

What's the consensus on smaller positions like secretary and treasurer?

I actually like the organizational stuff that goes into those positions (used to be secretary for some clubs in undergrad) but it seems soo insignificant in the grand scheme of things haha. at the same time I guess some EC is better than absolutely no EC!

Better that than having two co-presidents and five vice presidents of the budgetary committee, minority affairs, fundraising committee, community outreach, etc.

 

[operaman]

The advice I commonly give people is to get involved with things you're deeply passionate about and good things are sure to follow. That, and when the S--t hits the fan and you're overwhelmed and stressed, you'll keep doing things you love and drop the fluffy crap you don't care about at all. So, if an IG is really something you're passionate about, great. If holding leadership positions is something you LIKE doing, then great, go do that. If you can't find a student group doing what you care about, then start your own like I did. Don't just do research to get a pub, but find a topic you care about and find a project you feel is really important and truly adds to the field and will impact patient care. Personally, that's the only way I can force myself to crank out these manuscripts when I'd rather have a beer and watch TV.

In the end, you want your CV to tell some sort of a cohesive story about who you are and what you care about. For many, they care about looking good to PDs and frankly it's really obvious when you look at their stuff. For M1, find your feet and be a top student first, then branch out this summer and figure out more ways you can get involved. No amount of ECs or pubs will make up for crappy grades and crappy boards, and you have plenty of time left to do things.

 

[notbobtrustme]

3rd year is when you get in on the action. get in on a research project (or chart review or case report) and that **** is golden. running 20 ELISAs with no results is not really that important.

 

[@JackShephard]

haha. M1 is early in the game.

 

[@JackShephard]

I was not involved in any interest club or group, and I still matched my #1 in a competative speciality.

Yup.

Residencies care more about Step 1/Step 2, clinical grades and research rather than M1/M2 activities.

M1s think med school is like undergrad. It's not. The game has changed.

 

[BurghStudent]

What about AOA? At some schools, AOA is not just determined by academics. Granted, you have to be in the top bracket, but within that, they look for community and school involvement etc.

 

[dyspareunia]

What about AOA? At some schools, AOA is not just determined by academics. Granted, you have to be in the top bracket, but within that, they look for community and school involvement etc.

Being in the top quartile is hard enough for most people (i.e. > 75% of people) without worrying about ECs.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Don't just do research to get a pub,

Yeah, no. If you're doing research in medical school it better be for a damn pub.

 

[dyspareunia]

Yeah, no. If you're doing research in medical school it better be for a damn pub.

Yeah, why else would you do research?

 

[bambi]

Why are you making multiple threads with multiple usernames claiming to be at totally different stages of your education?

 

[operaman]

What I meant was don't just do research you really don't care about because you think having a pub on your CV looks good. It does, and yes pubs are the obvious end goal of research, but try to find something you have some real interest in. What happens to the CV fluffers is they show up for interview day and get asked all about their pubs because faculty assume it's something they're interested in and then look like idiots because they can't intelligently discuss a project they were theoretically an author on. So, if it's end of 3rd year and you got nuthin' then scramble for whatever you can put your name on asap, but as a first year you still have time to pick things that really interest you and that you can develop throughout med school.

For example, lets say you really like teaching and hope to work in academics one day and make teaching a big part of your practice....
During 2nd year you start tutoring M1s
You get involved with volunteer groups that go into high schools/colleges to talk about science and medicine
You serve on a couple committees at your school like the curriculum and/or progress committee
You get involved in research on medical education and get your name on a couple pubs in academic medicine journals
You get involved in your chosen specialty IG and spearhead a program wherein upperclassmen personally mentor underclassmen pursuing that field
Etc. etc.

See how all of that tells a story? It's much more compelling than your generic med student CV with unrelated ECs, random nth author pubs, and token overseas mission trip.

 

[dyspareunia]

What I meant was don't just do research you really don't care about because you think having a pub on your CV looks good. It does, and yes pubs are the obvious end goal of research, but try to find something you have some real interest in. What happens to the CV fluffers is they show up for interview day and get asked all about their pubs because faculty assume it's something they're interested in and then look like idiots because they can't intelligently discuss a project they were theoretically an author on. So, if it's end of 3rd year and you got nuthin' then scramble for whatever you can put your name on asap, but as a first year you still have time to pick things that really interest you and that you can develop throughout med school.

For example, lets say you really like teaching and hope to work in academics one day and make teaching a big part of your practice....
During 2nd year you start tutoring M1s
You get involved with volunteer groups that go into high schools/colleges to talk about science and medicine
You serve on a couple committees at your school like the curriculum and/or progress committee
You get involved in research on medical education and get your name on a couple pubs in academic medicine journals
You get involved in your chosen specialty IG and spearhead a program wherein upperclassmen personally mentor underclassmen pursuing that field
Etc. etc.

See how all of that tells a story? It's much more compelling than your generic med student CV with unrelated ECs, random nth author pubs, and token overseas mission trip.

Pretty much everyone in my class has a CV that looks like that. Since I highly doubt that every single one of us is a special flower, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that what you've outlined is a pretty generic CV. All the Attendings and Residents on SDN say you are remembered for a unique quality... like you were an Alaskan crab fisherman for 3 months before med school. All the pre-med-esque ECs don't matter, except pubs. And as far as pubs go (again, what I've heard from Attendings/Residents/Matched MS4s) all they want to know during the interview is that you were involved enough to talk about it for 30-45 seconds. Most interviewers won't want to listen to the details of your pub.

 

[mcloaf]

Pretty much everyone in my class has a CV that looks like that. Since I highly doubt that every single one of us is a special flower, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that what you've outlined is a pretty generic CV. All the Attendings and Residents on SDN say you are remembered for a unique quality... like you were an Alaskan crab fisherman for 3 months before med school. All the pre-med-esque ECs don't matter, except pubs. And as far as pubs go (again, what I've heard from Attendings/Residents/Matched MS4s) all they want to know during the interview is that you were involved enough to talk about it for 30-45 seconds. Most interviewers won't want to listen to the details of your pub.

What about Amsterdam crab fisherman?

 

[ms1990]

At the same time, you do hear that primary care specialities emphasize ECs and community involvement much more than say, radiology or surgery who likely don't care. It doesn't seem (based on what I've read on SDN) that it's entirely black and white, and that ECs might benefit you in some areas of medicine.

Also if like you (dyspareunia) said, everyone in your class has a CV like that, it then seems like if you don't have a CV like that, it might stand out? When every applicant has some type of involvement in either school or the greater community, even if residents/attendings/PDs don't care about the activity, at least you did it, compared to many others who might have a sparse "activities" section. They may not ask or care about the actual activity, but I wonder if at least having that box checked off helps you in getting interviews, compared to someone who didn't do anything

 

[BurghStudent]

At the same time, you do hear that primary care specialities emphasize ECs and community involvement much more than say, radiology or surgery who likely don't care. It doesn't seem (based on what I've read on SDN) that it's entirely black and white, and that ECs might benefit you in some areas of medicine.

Also if like you (dyspareunia) said, everyone in your class has a CV like that, it then seems like if you don't have a CV like that, it might stand out? When every applicant has some type of involvement in either school or the greater community, even if residents/attendings/PDs don't care about the activity, at least you did it, compared to many others who might have a sparse "activities" section. They may not ask or care about the actual activity, but I wonder if at least having that box checked off helps you in getting interviews, compared to someone who didn't do anything

So really, we're all raising the bar for each other. We need an early MS1 intervention that screams, getting into residency =/= getting into medical school. Drop the pre-med act.

Over the last several months, I've noticed a change in myself, where previously I would jump at the opportunity to be treasurer of some no-name group, I now have a pretty thorough BS filter. Charting Outcomes. All's I'm sayin'.

 

[ms1990]

So really, we're all raising the bar for each other. We need an early MS1 intervention that screams, getting into residency =/= getting into medical school. Drop the pre-med act.

Over the last several months, I've noticed a change in myself, where previously I would jump at the opportunity to be treasurer of some no-name group, I now have a pretty thorough BS filter. Charting Outcomes. All's I'm sayin'.

Haha, I've noticed the exact opposite. Didn't really give it much thought/care much at first, but the more I saw others jumping at the bit for these random positions, the more panicked I got (hence the original post)

 

[BurghStudent]

Haha, I've noticed the exact opposite. Didn't really give it much thought/care much at first, but the more I saw others jumping at the bit for these random positions, the more panicked I got (hence the original post)

Yeah, I don't think we can ever truly get rid of that feeling. Me, I simply only participate in something I actually care about, i.e. something I'm willing to spend the time that I should be using for more important things. Class President is just not one of those things.

 

[Daodejing]

Haha, I've noticed the exact opposite. Didn't really give it much thought/care much at first, but the more I saw others jumping at the bit for these random positions, the more panicked I got (hence the original post)

You do you. Rest will take care of itself.

 

[Psai]

At the same time, you do hear that primary care specialities emphasize ECs and community involvement much more than say, radiology or surgery who likely don't care. It doesn't seem (based on what I've read on SDN) that it's entirely black and white, and that ECs might benefit you in some areas of medicine.

Also if like you (dyspareunia) said, everyone in your class has a CV like that, it then seems like if you don't have a CV like that, it might stand out? When every applicant has some type of involvement in either school or the greater community, even if residents/attendings/PDs don't care about the activity, at least you did it, compared to many others who might have a sparse "activities" section. They may not ask or care about the actual activity, but I wonder if at least having that box checked off helps you in getting interviews, compared to someone who didn't do anything

Programs are looking for hard working residents with a strong medical background, not a bleeding heart mother teresa that did a crappy H&P on a few people in a free clinic to bolster their resume.

 

[dyspareunia]

At the same time, you do hear that primary care specialities emphasize ECs and community involvement much more than say, radiology or surgery who likely don't care. It doesn't seem (based on what I've read on SDN) that it's entirely black and white, and that ECs might benefit you in some areas of medicine.

Also if like you (dyspareunia) said, everyone in your class has a CV like that, it then seems like if you don't have a CV like that, it might stand out? When every applicant has some type of involvement in either school or the greater community, even if residents/attendings/PDs don't care about the activity, at least you did it, compared to many others who might have a sparse "activities" section. They may not ask or care about the actual activity, but I wonder if at least having that box checked off helps you in getting interviews, compared to someone who didn't do anything

So there's a few issues here that I think I should clarify for you.

1. If you enjoy volunteering, service-learning, etc then by all means you should do it. This is different than doing it so you can put it on your CV.
2. "...compared to someone who didn't do anything." There are going to be very few, if any, med students who have a completely blank CV. Many schools require some sort of elective or service learning or both. Plus, most med students that I know have some level of altruism and end up going to the free clinic once in a while to help out.
3. Yes, if you don't have leadership, research, or a unique something or other on your app you probably will stand out in a negative way.
4. I'd wager that even primary care specialties don't care much about community involvement. Perhaps community-based residency programs care about community involvement, but that's a different story.
5. Bottom line is, the only activity worth doing just for your CV is getting published. Nothing else is worth it if you aren't interested in it.

Again, this is all based on what I've been told by MS4s, residents, and attendings. I am merely a lowly MS1.

 

[benzonase]

Conversely,

If I am doing really well in all my classes, have a summer research gig that should lead to at least an abstract/poster at a meeting, and will be involved in a leadership position for an IG next year should I consider my self on track?

 

[Daodejing]

Conversely,

If I am doing really well in all my classes, have a summer research gig that should lead to at least an abstract/poster at a meeting, and will be involved in a leadership position for an IG next year should I consider my self on track?

No, you are so out in left field that you should just quit now while you're ahead..

I can't believe you adorn your question with your humblebrag accomplishments and then seek a response...really?

 

[dyspareunia]

Conversely,

If I am doing really well in all my classes, have a summer research gig that should lead to at least an abstract/poster at a meeting, and will be involved in a leadership position for an IG next year should I consider my self on track?

Sounds average.

 

[evilbooyaa]

What I meant was don't just do research you really don't care about because you think having a pub on your CV looks good. It does, and yes pubs are the obvious end goal of research, but try to find something you have some real interest in. What happens to the CV fluffers is they show up for interview day and get asked all about their pubs because faculty assume it's something they're interested in and then look like idiots because they can't intelligently discuss a project they were theoretically an author on. So, if it's end of 3rd year and you got nuthin' then scramble for whatever you can put your name on asap, but as a first year you still have time to pick things that really interest you and that you can develop throughout med school.

For example, lets say you really like teaching and hope to work in academics one day and make teaching a big part of your practice....
During 2nd year you start tutoring M1s
You get involved with volunteer groups that go into high schools/colleges to talk about science and medicine
You serve on a couple committees at your school like the curriculum and/or progress committee
You get involved in research on medical education and get your name on a couple pubs in academic medicine journals
You get involved in your chosen specialty IG and spearhead a program wherein upperclassmen personally mentor underclassmen pursuing that field
Etc. etc.

See how all of that tells a story? It's much more compelling than your generic med student CV with unrelated ECs, random nth author pubs, and token overseas mission trip.

Yeah but if you're going into ortho (or any other competitive field, with plans to go into academics) you're going to get smoked by the med student with the same stats (minus the ECs) but double the research.

As dyspareunia said, if you enjoy ECs, by all means do them. However, if you hate doing that stuff and want to figure out what has the best bang for your buck, it's research. Research for pubs.

If you start a research project in medical school, your goal SHOULD be at least an abstract/poster. Sometimes it doesn't work out due to circumstances outside of your control, but medical school is NOT the time to do research for the lulz.

 

[operaman]

I think my point has been narrowly read and therefore misunderstood by many here. In all of these things, something is always better than nothing and there is certainly some power in having a LOT of things (research, pubs, presentations, posters, ECs, etc). That said, my advice stands that, if feasible, it's a good idea to do research/ECs/leadership in things you are really passionate about because it makes for a more compelling story. For the OP, M1 is a great time to do this because he/she isn't under a big time crunch yet and can select/create projects that suit his/her interests. Being n-th author on list a papers certainly trumps few or no papers at all, but is not as powerful is a number of first author pubs on original research articles (not just case reports/series) that are actually important to the field. For me personally and my own quirky personality, I just can't muster the willpower to do that kind of work unless the topic is something I really care about. That isn't to say the guy with 20-30 pubs doesn't make a VERY strong impression, just that sheer numbers alone won't make up for quality and quality (for me anyhow) takes passion and dedication. To key to following your passion and also netting pubs is to design your projects in such a way that they are pub-worthy regardless of the outcome.