Unique Hospice Situation

[hydrophilicmed]

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I started volunteering at a hospice a while ago. It's nice and all but the thing is, we're told not to move the patients, not to feed the patients, not to give the patients medicine etc. The only time we can really physically touch the patient is when we're wheeling them around in their wheelchair or something and I'm pretty sure we aren't the ones that are supposed to put them in the wheelchair. I don't think it's caused a problem for me so far but I think it will soon. So far CNA's have asked me to feed the patient I'm with but of course I can't and I tell them so. Then one time I found the patient in an awkward position when I visited so I asked someone to move her a little because I'm told I'm not supposed to. Today I was asked by a CNA if I wanted to like change the patient I'm working with and of course I can't so I say so. They respond by saying "Oh well other hospice volunteers do it" (I think the other volunteers are from a different company than I am).
I think these people are gonna expect me to do something and they do ask me to do stuff. I think they're (the CNA's) gonna get real tired of me when I keep going to them because my patient needs their leg moved a little bit and I can't do it. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna seem like the lazy hospice volunteer when volunteers from other companies do stuff I'm told not to do. I honestly would do it but then I think, if someone chokes while I'm trying to feed them when I'm specifically told not to or something happens while I'm trying to reposition someone I'm gonna be the one in trouble. Is it common for hospices to ask their volunteers not to do this stuff?

 

[Goro]

I started volunteering at a hospice a while ago. It's nice and all but the thing is, we're told not to move the patients, not to feed the patients, not to give the patients medicine etc. The only time we can really physically touch the patient is when we're wheeling them around in their wheelchair or something and I'm pretty sure we aren't the ones that are supposed to put them in the wheelchair. I don't think it's caused a problem for me so far but I think it will soon. So far CNA's have asked me to feed the patient I'm with but of course I can't and I tell them so. Then one time I found the patient in an awkward position when I visited so I asked someone to move her a little because I'm told I'm not supposed to. Today I was asked by a CNA if I wanted to like change the patient I'm working with and of course I can't so I say so. They respond by saying "Oh well other hospice volunteers do it" (I think the other volunteers are from a different company than I am).
I think these people are gonna expect me to do something and they do ask me to do stuff. I think they're (the CNA's) gonna get real tired of me when I keep going to them because my patient needs their leg moved a little bit and I can't do it. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna seem like the lazy hospice volunteer when volunteers from other companies do stuff I'm told not to do. I honestly would do it but then I think, if someone chokes while I'm trying to feed them when I'm specifically told not to or something happens while I'm trying to reposition someone I'm gonna be the one in trouble. Is it common for hospices to ask their volunteers not to do this stuff?

I've never heard a hospice being so stringent with patients. Perhaps double check with those in charge to see if the rules can be bent when a CNA is supervising you.

 

[hydrophilicmed]

I've never heard a hospice being so stringent with patients. Perhaps double check with those in charge to see if the rules can be bent when a CNA is supervising you.

No, I don't think they can be bent. The coordinator reiterated this many times. One of the persons in the training asked multiple questions and gave multiple scenarios and the answer was basically the same. No moving, no feeding etc. I think it might be a liability thing, I don't know.

 

[RNtoMD87]

No, I don't think they can be bent. The coordinator reiterated this many times. One of the persons in the training asked multiple questions and gave multiple scenarios and the answer was basically the same. No moving, no feeding etc. I think it might be a liability thing, I don't know.

Maybe try to work with a different company? I personally wouldn’t want to break rules, but I might talk to the other volunteers and try to get on with them.

 

[hydrophilicmed]

Maybe try to work with a different company? I personally wouldn’t want to break rules, but I might talk to the other volunteers and try to get on with them.

When I signed up they asked if I could commit at least one year and I said yes. They're kind of short on people too...

 

[Osminog]

I started volunteering at a hospice a while ago. It's nice and all but the thing is, we're told not to move the patients, not to feed the patients, not to give the patients medicine etc. The only time we can really physically touch the patient is when we're wheeling them around in their wheelchair or something and I'm pretty sure we aren't the ones that are supposed to put them in the wheelchair. I don't think it's caused a problem for me so far but I think it will soon. So far CNA's have asked me to feed the patient I'm with but of course I can't and I tell them so. Then one time I found the patient in an awkward position when I visited so I asked someone to move her a little because I'm told I'm not supposed to. Today I was asked by a CNA if I wanted to like change the patient I'm working with and of course I can't so I say so. They respond by saying "Oh well other hospice volunteers do it" (I think the other volunteers are from a different company than I am).
I think these people are gonna expect me to do something and they do ask me to do stuff. I think they're (the CNA's) gonna get real tired of me when I keep going to them because my patient needs their leg moved a little bit and I can't do it. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna seem like the lazy hospice volunteer when volunteers from other companies do stuff I'm told not to do. I honestly would do it but then I think, if someone chokes while I'm trying to feed them when I'm specifically told not to or something happens while I'm trying to reposition someone I'm gonna be the one in trouble. Is it common for hospices to ask their volunteers not to do this stuff?

I volunteered for hospice, and we had the same rules -- no feeding, touching, offering meds, etc. Based on my experience, it's common for volunteers to break these rules, but don't be one of the volunteers who break the rules. When you break these rules, you create legal liabilities that could come back to haunt you. A patient's family can accuse the hospice of all sorts of nasty things if they witness a hospice volunteer doing something that he or she isn't qualified to do.

If the CNAs "get real tired" of performing tasks that they're trained to perform and that you're not trained to perform, then that's on them, not on you. And if they start giving you attitude, tell them that you're only willing to do what the official rules permit you to do and that you're not going to put your organization in legal jeopardy. Simple as that.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I volunteered for hospice, and we had the same rules -- no feeding, touching, offering meds, etc. Based on my experience, it's common for volunteers to break these rules, but don't be one of the volunteers who break the rules. When you break these rules, you create legal liabilities that could come back to haunt you. A patient's family can accuse the hospice of all sorts of nasty things if they witness a hospice volunteer doing something that he or she isn't qualified to do.

If the CNAs "get real tired" of performing tasks that they're trained to perform and that you're not trained to perform, then that's on them, not on you. And if they start giving you attitude, tell them that you're only willing to do what the official rules permit you to do and that you're not going to put your organization in legal jeopardy. Simple as that.

This. Listen to this.

 

[Catalystik]

I started volunteering at a hospice a while ago. It's nice and all but the thing is, we're told not to move the patients, not to feed the patients, not to give the patients medicine etc. The only time we can really physically touch the patient is when we're wheeling them around in their wheelchair or something and I'm pretty sure we aren't the ones that are supposed to put them in the wheelchair. I don't think it's caused a problem for me so far but I think it will soon. So far CNA's have asked me to feed the patient I'm with but of course I can't and I tell them so. Then one time I found the patient in an awkward position when I visited so I asked someone to move her a little because I'm told I'm not supposed to. Today I was asked by a CNA if I wanted to like change the patient I'm working with and of course I can't so I say so. They respond by saying "Oh well other hospice volunteers do it" (I think the other volunteers are from a different company than I am).
I think these people are gonna expect me to do something and they do ask me to do stuff. I think they're (the CNA's) gonna get real tired of me when I keep going to them because my patient needs their leg moved a little bit and I can't do it. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna seem like the lazy hospice volunteer when volunteers from other companies do stuff I'm told not to do. I honestly would do it but then I think, if someone chokes while I'm trying to feed them when I'm specifically told not to or something happens while I'm trying to reposition someone I'm gonna be the one in trouble. Is it common for hospices to ask their volunteers not to do this stuff?

Can you bring a copy of the rules with you and show it to the CNA/other persons with whom you work? (With yellow highlight on the relevant portions.)

I agree, you should not break the rules you have been given. They protect the company, of course, but they also protect you.

 

[RNtoMD87]

When I signed up they asked if I could commit at least one year and I said yes. They're kind of short on people too...

Eh I mean you could break that commitment, theyre not signing your paychecks and your med school would never know unless you told them,

But I wouldn’t break rules. Could have bigger implications.

 

[hydrophilicmed]

Eh I mean you could break that commitment, theyre not signing your paychecks and your med school would never know unless you told them,

But I wouldn’t break rules. Could have bigger implications.

I don't plan on breaking any rules and I think I'll stick around a little longer.

 

[RNtoMD87]

That’s up to you. I just like being able to interact in my volunteer work, otherwise I feel like I’m wasting my time, but to each his own.

But yeah, I wouldn’t worry about the CNAs. If they don’t like it they should go find another job. They knew what they signed up for.

 

[hydrophilicmed]

That’s up to you. I just like being able to interact in my volunteer work, otherwise I feel like I’m wasting my time, but to each his own.

This might sound terrible, but this still counts as clinical even though I'm not doing jack right? The great LizzyM said as long as I was close enough to smell them it was but like I said I'm not doing jack.

 

[RNtoMD87]

This might sound terrible, but this still counts as clinical even though I'm not doing jack right? The great LizzyM said as long as I was close enough to smell them it was but like I said I'm not doing jack.

It very well might. I mean if you’re comforting them and all, I would say yeah. As long as you’re interacting with hospice patients in any way.

Doesn’t sound terrible either, I’m just a doer.

 

[Waldcayut]

Hospice CNA here, never asked our volunteers to do any touching really. I’ve asked them to take patients out to smoke or sit with them if they have no family and are actively passing. I certainly wouldn’t ever ask a volunteer to help me change a patient or transfer one or anything super hands on. That’s just unprofessional.

 

[Goro]

This might sound terrible, but this still counts as clinical even though I'm not doing jack right? The great LizzyM said as long as I was close enough to smell them it was but like I said I'm not doing jack.

It's 100% clinical.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

The CNAs, like many/most I've encountered, seem lazy and eager to pawn work on you.

 

[RNtoMD87]

The CNAs, like many/most I've encountered, seem lazy and eager to pawn work on you.

I haven’t had a lot of problem with CNAs. For me it’s sitters. They come to the hospital and want to collect a check to not do a damn thing. Won’t even help feed the patient when at home they do EVERYTING. Just want to sleep.

Some sitters are really good though.

 

[curbsideconsult]

Is it common for hospices to ask their volunteers not to do this stuff?

I think it's pretty common. I volunteered in two different hospice organizations and what I could/couldn't do was night and day between them.

 

[Medic741]

When I signed up they asked if I could commit at least one year and I said yes. They're kind of short on people too...

Breaking rules can get you hung out to dry real fast for problems/complications (trust me) that you don’t want to have anything to do with

 

[Sheiko]

No, I don't think they can be bent. The coordinator reiterated this many times. One of the persons in the training asked multiple questions and gave multiple scenarios and the answer was basically the same. No moving, no feeding etc. I think it might be a liability thing, I don't know.

This is really unusual. In both the hospices I've volunteered with, touching the patients (e.g. feeding, hand holding, etc) was actually encouraged.

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

 

[RNtoMD87]

This is really unusual. In both the hospices I've volunteered with, touching the patients (e.g. feeding, hand holding, etc) was actually encouraged.

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

I don’t understand what else there really is for a volunteer to do.

 

[LizzyM]

It sounds to me like the hospice is attempting to limit their liabilty for injuries to the patients (e.g. someone chokes while you are feeding them, or you give them the wrong medicine) and to the volunteers (e.g. back injuries due to moving someone) and reducing the likelihood that someone would divert patient medications to their own use.

 

[857770]

If you want to do more, it may be worthwhile to get a CNA license to get the training on how to work with patients in that capacity. Then, you could get hired at a hospice.

 

[Sheiko]

Seriously. I supose you could just talk, but these kinds of things can provide comfort in ways that words often cannot

I don’t understand what else there really is for a volunteer to do.

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

 

[676188]

The hospice I volunteer for doesn’t allow moving, feeding, etc of the patient’s either. I can touch a patient’s arm, give them a hug or hold their hand if they indicate that’s what they want.

I actually had a situation once where I was arriving to stay with a patient in their home, and his wife was leaving to go run errands and fell in their garage and couldn’t get up. I wasn’t allowed to help her up or try to move her either. I just called 911 and sat with her with the door open so her husband could see/hear us and waited for the ambulance. And I had to report it to hospice, of course.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Right. I'm not going to discount the value of verbal comfort, but I feel like when I can offer non pharmacological soothing relief through massage, hair washing, bathing, etc is more therapeutic.

 

[mdh2]

I started volunteering at a hospice a while ago. It's nice and all but the thing is, we're told not to move the patients, not to feed the patients, not to give the patients medicine etc. The only time we can really physically touch the patient is when we're wheeling them around in their wheelchair or something and I'm pretty sure we aren't the ones that are supposed to put them in the wheelchair. I don't think it's caused a problem for me so far but I think it will soon. So far CNA's have asked me to feed the patient I'm with but of course I can't and I tell them so. Then one time I found the patient in an awkward position when I visited so I asked someone to move her a little because I'm told I'm not supposed to. Today I was asked by a CNA if I wanted to like change the patient I'm working with and of course I can't so I say so. They respond by saying "Oh well other hospice volunteers do it" (I think the other volunteers are from a different company than I am).
I think these people are gonna expect me to do something and they do ask me to do stuff. I think they're (the CNA's) gonna get real tired of me when I keep going to them because my patient needs their leg moved a little bit and I can't do it. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna seem like the lazy hospice volunteer when volunteers from other companies do stuff I'm told not to do. I honestly would do it but then I think, if someone chokes while I'm trying to feed them when I'm specifically told not to or something happens while I'm trying to reposition someone I'm gonna be the one in trouble. Is it common for hospices to ask their volunteers not to do this stuff?

Under NO circumstances should you break the rules. You are there to offer comfort to the patients and their families at a difficult time NOT do the staff's work for them.

I promise you, with 100% certainty if anything was to happen when you acted outside your scope--EVEN IF YOU WERE TOLD TO--you will be thrown under the bus by the CNA. If you were giving medications and a vial of morphine went missing your medical career would be over before it started.

Never do anything outside of your scope of practice regardless of your abilities or how limited that scope may be. This goes not only now, but through your career as a student, intern , and eventually senior resident.

People will be eager to pawn work off on you and you will be enthusiastic and want to help....but... No! Don't do it!

 

[RNtoMD87]

I definitely hope they wouldn't be giving him morphine. If so he needs to report them then and there. Even an LPN can't give morphine IVP so that is WAY out of his scope.

 

[smukke]

Don't do anything you aren't trained/allowed/insured to do.

When I was a medical student I had an elderly patient who we had just discharged end up being "readmitted" without even leaving their room because the son and his friend refused to wait for the nurses and tried to move the patient to a wheelchair themselves. Patient ended up on the floor and had to have some unexpected ortho surgery. There wasn't really any repercussions to the staff/hospital but stuff like that just drives home how trying to be helpful could have really been bad and I was glad I had already left the room and not stuck around like I've seen some med students do.
(Don't remember if that was an actual readmission or they just canceled the discharge)

 

[LizzyM]

Right. I'm not going to discount the value of verbal comfort, but I feel like when I can offer non pharmacological soothing relief through massage, hair washing, bathing, etc is more therapeutic.

Right, but I assume you are licensed to provide hands-on care. It may not be appropriate for a unlicensed person to be bathing a patient, etc.

 

[hydrophilicmed]

The hospice I volunteer for doesn’t allow moving, feeding, etc of the patient’s either. I can touch a patient’s arm, give them a hug or hold their hand if they indicate that’s what they want.

I actually had a situation once where I was arriving to stay with a patient in their home, and his wife was leaving to go run errands and fell in their garage and couldn’t get up. I wasn’t allowed to help her up or try to move her either. I just called 911 and sat with her with the door open so her husband could see/hear us and waited for the ambulance. And I had to report it to hospice, of course.

Same.

 

[hydrophilicmed]

It sounds to me like the hospice is attempting to limit their liabilty for injuries to the patients (e.g. someone chokes while you are feeding them, or you give them the wrong medicine) and to the volunteers (e.g. back injuries due to moving someone) and reducing the likelihood that someone would divert patient medications to their own use.

They are.