Unique proposal?

[MedSchoolChica]

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So after much debate, I have decided not to apply to medical school this year. Part of my decision was that my desire to do research was rekindled, and I decided I most likely not get into an MSTP program.

So, as I attempt to figure out what to do as I work on raising MCAT scores and gaining more research experience, I've been looking into graduate programs. And an idea came to me:

Instead of work the next 2 years towards a MS, why not start work on a PhD? And if my desire for medicine is still there, couldn't I still theorhetically apply to an MSTP program, and transfer (maybe?) my PhD coursework to go towards the PhD portion of my MD/PhD? The way I see it, I could work towards a PhD for 2 years, and in the meantime apply to MSTP programs, gain acceptance, and then complete the rest of the standard curriculum?

Anyone have insight on how probable this idea is? Would I be better off just doing a MS? Feedback and advice appreciated!

(Oh and good luck to all the 2009 MSTP applicants!!)

 

[decal]

From what I have read and heard, most programs oppose leaving a graduate degree program still in progress for medical school. Moreover, I think you will find that coursework seldom transfers between graduate programs. Coursework is also a very, very small portion of what a PhD is, and if you change schools it's doubtful your prior research will follow you. Thus, I don't think what you're proposing is very feasible. Getting two years of experience in a lab, be it as in a masters program or a research assistant (whichever pays more, perhaps), is more useful to the goal of getting into a MSTP.

 

[MedSchoolChica]

From what I have read and heard, most programs oppose leaving a graduate degree program still in progress for medical school. Moreover, I think you will find that coursework seldom transfers between graduate programs. Coursework is also a very, very small portion of what a PhD is, and if you change schools it's doubtful your prior research will follow you. Thus, I don't think what you're proposing is very feasible. Getting two years of experience in a lab, be it as in a masters program or a research assistant (whichever pays more, perhaps), is more useful to the goal of getting into a MSTP.

That actually makes a lot of sense. I have research experience, but my grades are somewhat lacking, as are MCAT scores, so perhaps a master's, and go from there. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[QofQuimica]

That actually makes a lot of sense. I have research experience, but my grades are somewhat lacking, as are MCAT scores, so perhaps a master's, and go from there. Thanks for the feedback!

One more good reason against starting a PhD program that you don't intend to finish is that you almost certainly won't get a very good LOR from your PI if you bail. But that's neither here nor there. Based on what I've quoted above, what you really need to do is to bring up your UG GPA by taking upper division science coursework and retake the MCAT. A graduate degree, whether MS or PhD, will *not* make your GPA more competitive for medical school. The problem is that your grad school grades won't get averaged in with your UG grades by AMCAS, and most med schools do not consider grad grades to be the equivalent of UG grades. So if you already have significant research experience, but your academic record isn't strong enough, then you should focus on getting those stats up to a competitive level. Best of luck to you. 🙂

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Q is right. You need to identify what's off and fix that, not merely try to get in by "back door" into an MD/PhD via PhD. Incidentally, I've never heard of that happened and if it does it must be very difficult. On the other hand MD > MD/PhD is rather common.

MD/PhD programs don't want you quitting a degree program to go to theirs. So, if you must do research take up a technician's position or go for a terminal master's but DON'T go PhD and then pull out with a master's since the PI won't like it and you'll get a bad recommendation letter.

On the other hand, if your research and clinical experiences are fine, and it's the GPA and MCAT that's the problem, then you must fix these. Graduate and undergraduate GPAs don't mix and it's undergraduate GPAs that they look at. Getting a research job at a university that has some sort of provision for their employees getting discounts on courses (e.g. one free course a semester or a massive discount) may allow you to take more *undergrad* science classes. Also, the science classes needn't be lab-based, as most upper level bio and physics classes aren't (chem is frequently wet-lab even in the upper level courses). You may be able to arrange something with an understanding boss where you'd make up the hours missed during a lecture by working into the evening or over the weekend. The alternative is a "medical masters" in which the classes count as undergrad.

 

[ecoli]

It seems as if Albert Einstein COM lets their PhD students enroll in their MSTP program after the first or second year: http://mstp.aecom.yu.edu/admissions.html

I'm not sure how common it is, and it seems like you'd be taking a risk, going to AECOM just for this program, and risk not getting accepted.

 

[MedSchoolChica]

One more good reason against starting a PhD program that you don't intend to finish is that you almost certainly won't get a very good LOR from your PI if you bail. But that's neither here nor there. Based on what I've quoted above, what you really need to do is to bring up your UG GPA by taking upper division science coursework and retake the MCAT. A graduate degree, whether MS or PhD, will *not* make your GPA more competitive for medical school. The problem is that your grad school grades won't get averaged in with your UG grades by AMCAS, and most med schools do not consider grad grades to be the equivalent of UG grades. So if you already have significant research experience, but your academic record isn't strong enough, then you should focus on getting those stats up to a competitive level. Best of luck to you. 🙂

I've exhausted most upper level biology courses, as I was a Biology Major, and took a handfull of Chemistry and Physics and Math courses. In the classes in which my performance was poor, I'm most likely going to retake them. I just figured doing a masters would show that I am capable of doing well at the graduate/professional level, give me more research, and a career option if my efforts to get into medical school fail. (I've dropped the whole PhD idea I proposed here)

My GPA is decent (3.55 overall, 3.4 BCMP) I just don't feel like it's adequate enough to get into a competitve program. And I know what I need to do to up my MCAT score (which was a 25Q). My grades slipped when I transferred schools, and unfortunately it was in some upper level bio and chem courses that I did poorly in. (C+ in Cell Bio, Biochem, and Medicinal Chemistry) I will retake them, to boost my undergrad gpa. But I thought that perhaps graduate school would give me a bit of an edge, give me some time to mature and make myself a more attractive candidate.

This handful of C's no only brought my GPA down, but also battered my confidence, which was further bashed by my MCAT score, which is ultimately why I decided not to apply. And as I've already graduated, and I need to continue my life, and not just sit, unemployed and not in school, I need to find an option to fill the time until I apply again, and hopefully get in. I also thought doing well in a graduate program would help me rebuild my confidence, since I've always prided myself in doing well in school, and excelling in an academic setting. (not to say I lack confidence when it comes to other things in my life.)

I appreciate the feedback and advice, and I'm sorry if I'm annoying in asking for all this advice, I just find myself lost, when I've always had a plan, and I like that SDN can be a supportive sounding board with a wealth of information. Thank you all for taking the time to read this, and sharing your knowledge and insight.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I've exhausted most upper level biology courses, as I was a Biology Major, and took a handfull of Chemistry and Physics and Math courses. In the classes in which my performance was poor, I'm most likely going to retake them. I just figured doing a masters would show that I am capable of doing well at the graduate/professional level, give me more research, and a career option if my efforts to get into medical school fail. (I've dropped the whole PhD idea I proposed here)

My GPA is decent (3.55 overall, 3.4 BCMP) I just don't feel like it's adequate enough to get into a competitve program. And I know what I need to do to up my MCAT score (which was a 25Q). My grades slipped when I transferred schools, and unfortunately it was in some upper level bio and chem courses that I did poorly in. (C+ in Cell Bio, Biochem, and Medicinal Chemistry) I will retake them, to boost my undergrad gpa. But I thought that perhaps graduate school would give me a bit of an edge, give me some time to mature and make myself a more attractive candidate.

This handful of C's no only brought my GPA down, but also battered my confidence, which was further bashed by my MCAT score, which is ultimately why I decided not to apply. And as I've already graduated, and I need to continue my life, and not just sit, unemployed and not in school, I need to find an option to fill the time until I apply again, and hopefully get in. I also thought doing well in a graduate program would help me rebuild my confidence, since I've always prided myself in doing well in school, and excelling in an academic setting. (not to say I lack confidence when it comes to other things in my life.)

I appreciate the feedback and advice, and I'm sorry if I'm annoying in asking for all this advice, I just find myself lost, when I've always had a plan, and I like that SDN can be a supportive sounding board with a wealth of information. Thank you all for taking the time to read this, and sharing your knowledge and insight.

Depending on the school you went to, you can get into a good MSTP with that GPA. I went to an Ivy (maybe it made a difference?) and had a slightly lower GPA actually, and got interviews at a bunch of top 20s and some top 10s. The sticking point, more than anything else, is the MCAT. That needs to boost up to 33+, I would think. Your time and effort may be better spent working a few months on boosting the MCAT, not only because you need a good score in absolute terms but also because it may offset the sub-optimal GPA.

 

[QofQuimica]

You're not annoying, Chica. A lot of people have run into these little snafus in the straight and narrow trail, including myself. 😉

I agree with mercapto: the MCAT is your most serious problem. Your GPA is a little low, but it's not nearly as bad as you were making it sound in your earlier post. When you said your grades were lacking, I was thinking you were more like in the 3.0-3.2 range. But a 3.5 isn't all that far below average at a lot of schools. If you can raise your MCAT score into the 30s and you apply broadly, you should be reasonably competitive assuming the rest of your app is good (research, other ECs, LORs, etc.).

FWIW, I think you made the right decision to not apply this year with a 25 MCAT, especially since you know what you need to do to raise it. Even for MD-only programs, you'd be fighting a serious uphill battle with that score. Set a date for the retake and fight on, girl.

 

[MedSchoolChica]

I knew I'd have to retake the MCAT no matter what, but I am reassured that my GPA isn't that terrible. I knew it fell into the range of accepted GPAs, I just figured maybe it wasn't good enough, and the fact that my poor grades were in some of the upper level courses.

Thanks guys for your support! 🙂 It's very much appreciated!

 

[ecoli]

As long as your avatar picture isn't you, you should be alright (you might be considered too inexperienced otherwise).

 

[MedSchoolChica]

As long as your avatar picture isn't you, you should be alright (you might be considered too inexperienced otherwise).

Ha ha, no! Just a fan of Lennart Nilsson's photography. 🙂

 

[GWD]

That MCAT score is pretty terrible. You'd be hard pressed to get into a straight MD program with that.

Go work as a tech for a year (if it's any consolidation, my tech makes almost 2.5x what I make in salary), get some experience, study, and try the MCAT again next cycle.

Ultimately, it's up to you how bad you want it. If you work hard, you'll HAVE the opportunity. There is a lot to be said for those who have laboratory exposure and you should use this opportunity to get valuable research experience and study to take the MCAT again.

Like anything in life, pursue your ambition... either it, or you will win.


EDIT: Oh yeah.. I missed the point... don't go into a PhD program. The mentality of an MSTP program is to give extremely talented MD candidates an incentive to also train as scientists by offering them free med school. If you are already pursuing a PhD, you're throwing away your bargaining power. Just go work as a tech for a year, study, and improve your MCAT if MD/PhD is really what you want to do.