University of Cincinati BS/MD vs. Case Western Reserve University BS/MD

[Onager]

Hello everyone,

I posted this thread in the high school network but would love some additional advice from those with more experience here.

I was also admitted to UPenn's Vagelos MLS Program, but have pretty much ruled that out (feel free to comment on whether that's a reasonable decision).

A few details:

Full ride (lodging/books/etc.) at Cincinnati.
Need to take MCAT at Cincinnati, will likely lead to applications for med school scholarships and applying out to other medical schools.

30k scholarship at Case (bringing it down to roughly 12k tuition a year, trying to see if I can get more, as some others in the past have).
Do not need to take MCAT, but if I choose to for any reason (med school scholarships, applying out, etc.) I need at least a 36 on the old scale (95th percentile, I think) to keep my seat in the medical school. Probably would not take the MCAT/apply out.

Any help in making a decision?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[LoveIR]

Does the full ride at Cincinnati/30k scholarship at Case apply to the med school years as well?

Anyway, here are a few thoughts:

-Congrats! Both are solid med schools
-Both are medium sized cities in Ohio. There is more going on in Cleveland, but it's a little colder too.
-Case has more cachet when it comes time to apply for residency, has a better match list
-Med school curriculum at Case seems more laid back
-If I understand correctly it sounds like Cincinnati would be significantly, significantly cheaper as they are including lodging.
-The MCAT is not too bad, but scoring a 36 is very difficult
-There aren't many scholarships out there for med school unless you are from that region, certain minority, etc., so I wouldn't base a decision on being able to apply for outside scholarships
-if you decide not to do medicine I think a degree from Case would give you slightly more opportunities

 

[NeuResurgens]

I would go to Case, and not take the MCAT. If you have the opportunity to avoid that thing, do it.

 

[deleted577188]

Does the full ride at Cincinnati/30k scholarship at Case apply to the med school years as well?

Anyway, here are a few thoughts:

-Congrats! Both are solid med schools
-Both are medium sized cities in Ohio. There is more going on in Cleveland, but it's a little colder too.
-Case has more cachet when it comes time to apply for residency, has a better match list
-Med school curriculum at Case seems more laid back
-If I understand correctly it sounds like Cincinnati would be significantly, significantly cheaper as they are including lodging.
-The MCAT is not too bad, but scoring a 36 is very difficult
-There aren't many scholarships out there for med school unless you are from that region, certain minority, etc., so I wouldn't base a decision on being able to apply for outside scholarships
-if you decide not to do medicine I think a degree from Case would give you slightly more opportunities

I'm from Cleveland and I couldn't help but intervene: Cleveland is not even remotely close to a medium sized city lol.

 

[Onager]

1) I live 30 minutes from Cleveland, so I'm familiar with it as a city.

2) When I refer to scholarships, I mean merit scholarships from the University of Cincinnati that are based in part on the MCAT (I would be competing with the general med school population).

3) I got a 36 ACT 2350+ SAT if that has any bearing on what I can expect from the new MCAT

4) Cincinnati would be significantly cheaper, yes. If I want to match into a competitive residency, how big of a deal is the extra debt?

5) To what extent do match lists have to do with institutional strength, versus being due to strength of applicants themselves? Basically, how would my personal residency matches change based on where I went if I did comparably in each medical school? Would I do better at one school over the other?

Thanks for the congrats! One last thing, I do plan on living on campus at both schools.

 

[Onager]

To clarify, the money currently offers from both schools is for undergrad only.

 

[DubVille]

Grew up in Cincy. Did my clinicals in Cleveland.

Cincy actually has sun in the winter and you get about 3-4 more weeks of decent weather in spring+fall. Much less snow. Campus is more urban than Case (may be a + or -). I'd assume med school is cheaper since its public. If you are interested in pediatrics, Cincinnati Children's is one of the best in the nation. However UC hospital is pretty much the only hospital in the area with every specialty for residency options (for adults).

Cleveland as a city seemed ever so slightly better (more going on, better food imo). I think the case match list may be "better" because case, metro, and Cleveland clinic have every specialty and case students are a well known commodity at metro (the county hospital) and ccf. So in Cleveland you have three hospital systems at your fingertips that have residencies in almost all specialties, whereas cincy has only one hospital with all specialty options (not counting pediatrics).

Cincy has a good med school and if you are a decent student at either, I don't think you will be limited in your specialty. Personally I'd go with the cheaper option, but two good choices. Good luck.

 

[tiedyeddog]

I would go to case if you can stand Cleveland.

 

[LoveIR]

I'm from Cleveland and I couldn't help but intervene: Cleveland is not even remotely close to a medium sized city lol.

I was being somewhat magnanimous, haha.

But Cleveland's city population is 390,000, Metro 2 million
Cincinnati's city population is 300,000, Metro 2.1 million

So I think it's fair to say they are similarly sized. Whether or not either should be considered a medium sized city I don't know.

 

[C@lidoc]

I would go to case and not take the mcat. When I was in HS I had similar sat/act scores and managed a 34 on the mcat. I have another friend at Harvard and he has a 35. There is no way to predict how you would score on the mcat, especially the new one. And getting a 36 vs 35 could be a crapshoot. Congrats on your acceptances. Great options to have.

 

[LoveIR]

3) I got a 36 ACT 2350+ SAT if that has any bearing on what I can expect from the new MCAT

4) Cincinnati would be significantly cheaper, yes. If I want to match into a competitive residency, how big of a deal is the extra debt?

5) To what extent do match lists have to do with institutional strength, versus being due to strength of applicants themselves? Basically, how would my personal residency matches change based on where I went if I did comparably in each medical school? Would I do better at one school over the other?

Thanks for the congrats! One last thing, I do plan on living on campus at both schools.

3) You seem like a good test taker, and you may be able to score the equivalent of a 36. I personally scored above 36, but that's still roughly a 97th percentile score and hard to do.

4) As for cost:

Cincinnati:
undergrad: $0
Med school tuition: $30K X 4 years= $120K
Living expenses: $20K X 4 years= $80K
Total: $200,000

Case:
undergrad: $12X3 years= $36K
Med school tuition: $50KX4 years=$200K
Living expenses: $20Kx7 years=140K
Total: $376,000

The extra debt might be worth it if you want to do plastic surgery at Hopkins, might not be worth it if your long-term goal is family med in Ohio (which is a fine goal BTW).

5) Some people on SDN perpetuate a myth that med school rep doesn't matter, but if you're trying to get into a competitive field in a good location it matters. I just went through the residency application process, and when I interviewed at top 20 places I saw that they mostly interviewed people from other top 20 schools.

If a residency program is evaluating 2 identical candidates, they are likely to choose the candidate from the bigger name school. But it's also that schools with more reputation have nationally known faculty that can write letters and make calls on your behalf. It's also easier to publish papers coming from big name places. If you're trying to match Derm in NYC you should go to the best med school you can.

7 years is also a pretty long time, so maybe just choose whichever location will make you happier

Ultimately they are both great places and I think you could be very successful at either!

 

[wegotthis14]

I would go to case and not take the mcat. When I was in HS I had similar sat/act scores and managed a 34 on the mcat. I have another friend at Harvard and he has a 35. There is no way to predict how you would score on the mcat, especially the new one. And getting a 36 vs 35 could be a crapshoot. Congrats on your acceptances. Great options to have.

I agree, even if you performed very well on the SAT/ACT, there's no guarantee you'll get a 36 on the MCAT. Once you get to the 34+ range, it's pretty much a crapshoot. That being said, if you took the MCAT and earned a 34 or 35, you could still apply to plenty of amazing schools even though you no longer have an option at Case. Still, I would take the Case option if you like Cleveland. It has a fantastic med school that will not limit your residency options.

 

[DubVille]

I agree, even if you performed very well on the SAT/ACT, there's no guarantee you'll get a 36 on the MCAT. Once you get to the 34+ range, it's pretty much a crapshoot. That being said, if you took the MCAT and earned a 34 or 35, you could still apply to plenty of amazing schools even though you no longer have an option at Case. Still, I would take the Case option if you like Cleveland. It has a fantastic med school that will not limit your residency options.

Maybe I am already getting to be too far removed from the match, but I don't think going to Cincy will "limit your residency options."
Going off the matchlist of a private vs state school may also be misleading as many of the private schools student come from Cali, NY, etc. Many of those students will want to return later. State schools tend to keep more people in state (by student choice). I'd have a hard time believing a student with similar boards, class rank, research, etc. would be treated differently when interviewing for a residency spot. Going off LoveIR's numbers that is 200+ thousand dollars of difference with interest, that would convince me!

 

[Onager]

Hey everyone.

I do plan on matching into a competitive residency wherever possible. Not necessarily derm in NYC, but not family medicine in Ohio either (it's just not where my interests lie).

LoveIR - thanks for doing the math. What are the multipliers when I consider interest?

What opportunities might be more accessible in Cleveland vs. Cincinnati? Research, etc.

 

[DubVille]

Hey everyone.

I do plan on matching into a competitive residency wherever possible. Not necessarily derm in NYC, but not family medicine in Ohio either (it's just not where my interests lie).

LoveIR - thanks for doing the math. What are the multipliers when I consider interest?

What opportunities might be more accessible in Cleveland vs. Cincinnati? Research, etc.

In Cleveland you have more large hospitals, each with many different specialties for residency (including competitive ones). By default this may give you more research opportunities as a medical student and allow you to "rub more elbows" with attendings in your desired field.

That said, you could get research and letters of rec at Cincinnati in virtually any specialty (again If you want anything in pediatrics then Cincinnati is a better school). IMO the school "reputation" is nearly the same and I'd take the cheaper option.

 

[Onager]

I've shadowed quite a bit in Neonatology and rather enjoyed it. That being said, I'm not naive enough to say that I am at all sure of a specialty at this point.

Would neonatology make Cincinnati the overwhelming choice?

Does anyone have any experience (or refer me to someone who does) with applying out from a BS/MD program, and what that experience was like. This would be applying out from Cincy, not Case.

 

[LoveIR]

Cincinnati Children's is considered by many to be the #3 peds hospital in the country. However, expect to change your mind on specialty (unless it's ortho...the guys I knew coming in ortho matched in ortho, haha).

Very rough estimate with interest is that, paying back the loans over 10 years AFTER completing residency, you'll pay double what you owe. But who knows if interest rates will change, you'll have a spouse to help you pay it off more quickly, etc.

My general advice is to 1. go to the place that will be the best fit for you, 2. that's the best school you can get into, 3. that's the cheapest. I prioritize them in that order.

You could do great at either place. Cost v. Prestige is debated endlessly on these boards--I would read up on it and form your own opinion. =)