University of Florida vs. University of Pennsylvania?

[DocDwarf]

I am currently a senior in high school, and I'm trying to decide what college to attend. Given that I do get into both UF and UPenn, which do you think would be better (for a pre-med track)?

I know that UPenn is considered the better school, but based on its financial aid estimates on its website, it would be very likely that I would graduate with $30-40k in debt. On the other hand, I am a Florida resident and would (probably) graduate nearly debt free due to the Florida Bright Futures program.

Is going into debt worth it?

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[BBender716]

Not for undergrad, especially if its that significant of a difference and you plan on going to medical school. UFlorida GPA will NOT be frowned upon relative to UPenn. Do all the things necessary for med school EC-wise, get a high UFlorida GPA, and ace the MCAT and you'll be just as well off as if you did all those things at UPenn. If not exactly as well off, certainly $40K worth, lol

All of this holds true for medical school, but may differ should you decide to pursue another field that more highly prizes an ivy league education (business/some grad programs). Best of luck to you and props for getting on this EARLY!

 

[bunnity]

I'd say go with the better financial choice.
That said, Penn has a new thing for undergrads where if your parents make under 90k you get free tuition. Not sure when it takes effect but it might impact your decision.

 

[schrizto]

That said, Penn has a new thing for undergrads where if your parents make under 90k you get free tuition. Not sure when it takes effect but it might impact your decision.

All Ivies are great with financial aid if someone is slightly below middle class. However, the OP said he used the school's financial aid calculator and it calculated that he would graduate with 30-40k in debt so that probably means he is above that income level.

I would go with UF with a big scholarship. UF is still a top ranked, well regarded school. Penn is nice but I wouldn't pay big bucks just for a name.

 

[SeaBreeze12]

As a graduate of UF and someone who is going to graduate from med school in May... I say, go to UF! 😀 You will receive an excellent pre-med education and you won't go into med school with any debt, which is a HUGE plus! And the weather is better in Florida anyways.😎

 

[DrYoda]

Is going into debt worth it?

No.

 

[EyEnStein 07]

I think 60k is what you need for free tuition...

as for debt it depends..do you love upenn? do you feel like you have to be there and you will always think what if , if you went to UF? If you do...then reconsider...

Honestly, i chose the best financial choice school and i am not happy at all. It depends on where you feel most comfortable if you dont care then it doesnt matter. But if your not happy where you are, its just added stress and trouble upon yourself.

So personally, if the school was that much better and you feel you will have the best experience, education and opportunities i would go.

If you feel that you could be happy at UF and no debt which pleases you then more power to you. But realize that 30-40k debt is really nothign when after your signing yourself up for over 250k worth of debt most probably....so its not like your going to pay it all off as soon as your done...its going to take time regardless. But i urge that you dont make a decision only based on financial reasons...i did and it was the worst choice i could have made.

Talk about it with your parents and counselors as well. Good luck! hope you get in.

 

[MossPoh]

Pretty big assumptions to make. Neither is a "better" premed school. I know there are a TON of premeds at UF. These two schools are completely different though. One has bigger classes, tons of college sports and is the prototype of the college perception. The other is an ivy league in the city, smaller classes, tons of fine networking, not much of any real college sports. If you're from Florida, then I'd go UF simply because of bright futures. If you have no interest in college sports, drinking, etc. then UPenn may be a better fit. I know that is a horrible stereotype, but most of my friends went to UF and just like my school, the school I'm at now and many other large state schools, that is pretty much what life is centered around.

 

[schrizto]

Just because a school is known to have lots of sports, parties, and drinking doesn't mean you'll end up doing those things too... you'll likely find a good niche with honors kids and other premeds. UF is a big school so you will find all sorts of people there.

The school you end up at doesn't even have to be the very best financial choice. I was offered a bigger scholarship at a school than the one I am at right now but turned it down because of fit issues. Seek a good balance of fit and affordability.

 

[schrizto]

Most high school kids don't understand this and that is expected.

I was one of the high school kids who was like that. I applied to top private schools thinking the financial aid factor would work out. It didn't. So I did all the hard work of applying and getting in and couldn't pay for it in the end.

Sure the guy at school who ends up at an Ivy ends up getting glorified as the hero but after that initial gratification shelling out lots of money loses its glamour.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

UF is an excellent university....and the weather is much better. 😀 The "feel" of each school is VERY different, so you should probably visit them and see what you think. Either place is good enough to make you competitive for med school if you bring the numbers.

 

[One Fine Day]

My completely (biased) opinion would be to choose UPenn.

First of all, the others who stress that UPenn lacks socially compared to UF is completely apocryphal. UPenn is considered the "social ivy" due to the presence of frats and sororities in student life. If you don't like the frat and party life however, you can easily find people like you at Penn, because I'll bet you anything that there will be intellectually curious and invigorated students at Penn. After all, it is the number fourth ranked school in the nation.

College is a time to explore new facets in life, to really understand yourself. What better way than to do this in a new, electric city such as Philly? Philly is home to a billion and one clubs, restaurants, museums, shows, internships, not to mention it's only two hours away from NYC.

Since you're on the doctor forum, I'm assuming you want to become a doctor. UPenn has three hospitals right on or near campus. The Penn hospital, ranked 3rd in the nation, is next door to the freshman Quad dorms! The research and advising is top-notch.

Honestly, twenty years down the line, when all your debts that you do happen to incur are payed off and you are living nicely as a Doctor, you're college years at UPenn will be fondly remembered.

I hope to see you at Penn '14!

 

[schrizto]

Since you're on the doctor forum, I'm assuming you want to become a doctor. UPenn has three hospitals right on or near campus. The Penn hospital, ranked 3rd in the nation, is next door to the freshman Quad dorms! The research and advising is top-notch.

That's a good thing to look for as a pre-med. Pitt, my school, has five, FIVE! hospitals on/near campus within walking distance and at least one a short bus ride away (and it's free to ride as a Pitt student). Not to mention the medical school and its research facilities are also present. It's so convenient considering all I have to do is cross the street to get to a UPMC hospital from my dorm. I think liberal arts colleges and schools where their undergraduate and graduate programs are located on separate campuses put their undergraduates at a disadvantage when it comes to pre-med opportunities.

 

[DrYoda]

I think liberal arts colleges and schools where their undergraduate and graduate programs are located on separate campuses put their undergraduates at a disadvantage when it comes to pre-med opportunities.

I don't know about this. Both my undergrad and med school had seperate campuses (less than 2 miles apart in both cases). It's a short drive, or a short ride on the free school bus systems, I've even walked it before. It's not like you're barred from the other campus just because they're not directly next to each other.

 

[schrizto]

I agree that it doesn't mean that undergrads are barred from opportunities. But I think undergrads at say, Princeton, or Cornell (where there is a BIG distance between undergrad and medical school campuses) would have to look harder to do volunteer and research compared to an undergraduate at Pitt where I can actually see hospitals just by looking out the window of my dorm, because the bulk of the science research goes on at the medical school. It might not be much but the subtle psychological nudge of knowing the fact that facilities are so close may give someone an edge.

I didn't consider this factor much when applying to colleges in high school, but I was disappointed when I visited Northwestern's undergraduate campus and found out the medical school was 40 minutes away by car in Chicago, and this factored into my decision afterwards.

 

[Bacchus]

Penn's volunteering program at HUP is also highly organized and informative. I got a lot out of it. Is it worth 40,000 dollars? Probably not. However, if you get a Penn education and do everything else well, you'll probably have a better chance at the upper tier medical schools. This isn't to say UofF won't afford that opportunity but the Ivies select a lot of students amongst their tier for admissions into professional programs. Also, Philadelphia is a mecca of opportunities. I don't need to elaborate. I was not a Penn student, rather I went to USP. But having Penn nearby afforded many opportunities for me that I would have not got if I were not near the school.

 

[One Fine Day]

Is it worth 40,000 dollars? Probably not.

You make a valid point, is the full sticker price really worth it? Personally, I would completely take this opportunity. Honestly, if you need financial aid and are applying to an IVY, they have the largest endowments and earmark the most towards FA. If you ARE paying the sticker price, it is most likely because your family can afford it. Personally, I would gladly pay more for this type of education.

Take into consideration what others are saying about on campus opportunities. Although it seems minor now, it will really become a large factor when you're actually AT your college. If you go to a school like Penn with so many resources, all you need to do is cross the street. If you went to a place like Cornell, where only one local hospital is available, you would need to take a bus or something every time you wanted to volunteer or intern.

 

[CScull]

UF is an excellent university....and the weather is much better. 😀 The "feel" of each school is VERY different, so you should probably visit them and see what you think. Either place is good enough to make you competitive for med school if you bring the numbers.

Mmm, but the way Georgia and Florida are right now with the crazy rain you might need a snorkel to get to class.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Mmm, but the way Georgia and Florida are right now with the crazy rain you might need a snorkel to get to class.

Welcome to Hurricane Season. I lived in S. FL, so it may be a bit different up at UF, but yes....it rains a lot during this time of year. It really is gorgeous from Nov-May, so there are trade-offs. You'll also be less likely to be shot. I don't know where the UPENN undergrad is located in relation to their law school, but I know their law school is in a interesting part of the city.

 

[Near]

I would avoid debt. You make it sound like Bright Futures covers everything though. I was under the impression that it solely covers tuition. Are you using something other than bright futures for housing?

The only reason I ask is because I'm a Florida resident too.

 

[Neuronix]

Personally, I would gladly pay more for this type of education.

I wouldn't. I went to my no name state school (smaller name than UF for sure) for undergrad and am glad I don't have any more loans then I do. I got a fine education there and had everything I needed to get into a big name MD/PhD program.

I don't know where the UPENN undergrad is located in relation to their law school, but I know their law school is in a interesting part of the city.

All of Penn's grad/prof programs are together, which is definitely a Penn advantage. There are no separate campuses. I mean I wouldn't pay a lot of money more for this, but if Penn is cost-neutral for you by all means take it.

I don't quite see what you mean by "interesting" location though. The campus is in a pretty nice part of the city. Maybe you're thinking of Temple.

 

[schrizto]

I wouldn't. I went to my no name state school (smaller name than UF for sure) for undergrad and am glad I don't have any more loans then I do. I got a fine education there and had everything I needed to get into a big name MD/PhD program.

I wouldn't say University of Delaware is exactly no name... maybe it's just because I know several people who go there and have heard good things about it.

 

[Neuronix]

I wouldn't say University of Delaware is exactly no name... maybe it's just because I know several people who go there and have heard good things about it.

When I went there the pre-med advising was awful, the nearest hospital is 15 minutes drive away and not exactly friendly with the undergrad, the Biology department had next to no research going on, and they consistently to this day try to dissuade anyone from applying MD/PhD. After I graduated a 6 page expose was run in Science about how the Biology department's highest funded investigator was a total fraud. There is absolutely zero connection with any actual medical schools.

But, you make the most of your own opportunities. I blew the curve on a lot of exams, drove my clunker car around, lived in a room in a shared house for $200/mo, and used SDN for all my advising. The positives are the pre-meds aren't all that competitive, so you don't have to fight as hard for top grades, and the pre-med committee won't refuse to recommend you or dissuade you from applying just because they aren't 90% sure you'll get in.

 

[schrizto]

When I went there the pre-med advising was awful, the nearest hospital is 15 minutes drive away and not exactly friendly with the undergrad, the Biology department had next to no research going on, and they consistently to this day try to dissuade anyone from applying MD/PhD. After I graduated a 6 page expose was run in Science about how the Biology department's highest funded investigator was a total fraud. There is absolutely zero connection with any actual medical schools.

But, you make the most of your own opportunities. I blew the curve on a lot of exams, drove my clunker car around, lived in a room in a shared house for $200/mo, and used SDN for all my advising. The positives are the pre-meds aren't all that competitive, so you don't have to fight as hard for top grades, and the pre-med committee won't refuse to recommend you or dissuade you from applying just because they aren't 90% sure you'll get in.

You're right about that... the kids I know who go there aren't pre-meds. But I think I would disagree with the statement "There is absolutely zero connection with any actual medical schools". I know that UDel has a program with Jefferson called the Medical Scholars program which functions like an early acceptance program and accepts around 15 students into Jefferson each year. It's supposed to make up for the fact that DE has no medical school. This program might have started quite recently though.

 

[Neuronix]

I know that UDel has a program with Jefferson called the Medical Scholars program which functions like an early acceptance program and accepts around 15 students into Jefferson each year. It's supposed to make up for the fact that DE has no medical school. This program might have started quite recently though.

No, it's been around. It's just as competitive as getting into a regular medical school. For example, a buddy of mine was disqualified because he got a 8,9,10 on the MCAT and the minimum standard is a 9 on each subsection. You get no tuition break for the very expensive Jeff med school. You might as well apply to med school like everyone else.

As for other connections, are you really going to drive an hour to CC Philly to Jeff to shadow or do research there? I don't know anyone who has. After I graduated, I did research at DuPont Children's Hospital, Jeff's Peds affiliate north of Wilmington, but even that has little research and is a half hour drive.

So you're right. It isn't absolute zero, more like one kelvin of connection.

 

[ucsfstudents]

I don't have a preference. I know more people who have gone to UPenn with mixed result (some love it, some wouldn't recommend it). I haven't heard any complaints about Uni of Florida from the people I know who went. Decide based on where you think you'll fit in best and who has the best reputation for getting their students to medical school and supporting students in the process.