university of washington general surgery residency- malignant?

[shosho02]

hey all,

I was wondering if anyone knew anything about univeristy of washingtons general surgery residency. I have heard rumors that it is a pretty malignant program but didnt seem to get that vibe during the interview and interacting with the residents. any insight on this would definately help

thanks!

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[blue2000]

hey all,

I was wondering if anyone knew anything about univeristy of washingtons general surgery residency. I have heard rumors that it is a pretty malignant program but didnt seem to get that vibe during the interview and interacting with the residents. any insight on this would definately help

thanks!

To answer a question with a question, how do you define malignancy? It's a word that's tossed around a lot to describe programs, but rarely do people actually talk about what they mean.

That being said, I think that UW is not malignant, based on most people's definition. We work hard. Very hard. It's a top heavy academic program, though I think that's improving. We are probably 95-98% adherent with the ACGME work hours restrictions; with the major issues being the 10 hour rule between shifts. This is an issue at the university with chiefs operating late and then coming in to round early.

I have never been verbally abused by an attending. I've never had anything thrown at me. When I've made mistakes, they're not ignored or overlooked, but I also haven't been made to feel like a horrible person or a horrible doctor. I feel comfortable speaking up when I think a treatment plan isn't appropriate for a patient. I feel listened to. I am treated as a human being by my attendings. They know my name, my husband's name.

I would do anything for my fellow residents. They are so incredibly supportive and amazing. I look around at their amazing resumes, and the chiefs are doing some really amazing fellowships, and I just think of the people they are, and how much they care about their patients and how much they care about their teams.

If you're looking for a place where you'll consistently work less than 80 hours a week, UW ain't it. If you're looking for a place where you will be told on a regular basis that your farts smell like rainbows and unicorns, don't come. If you don't want to work your ass off in the only level I trauma center for 25% of the US landmass, go somewhere else. But the training is fair, hard, and excellent. PM if you have additional questions.

 

[shosho02]

Hey thanks so much for your reply. I absolutely loved the uwash program when i went for the interview and got the vibe that the residents were happy there. I am planning on ranking them in my top 3 but just wanted to double check on a few rumors i heard.

I agree that surgery is all about hard work and wasn't worried about the hours but more the verbal abuse. I dont want to spend the next 5 years being verbally abused for no reason. I want to learn as much as i can from attendings willing to teach and work my butt off to become an excellent surgeon.

what year resident are you?

I missed the dinner with the residents the night before due to a late flight and didnt get a chance to talk with alot of residents. I was just wondering if there any problems reaching case numbers? whats the pediatric surgery rotation like there? (im interested in doing a peds surg fellowship) whats the cost of living in the city? are most residents single/married?

Thanks again in advance for all your help and advice.

 

[jc7721]

just wanted to double check on a few rumors i heard.

.......more the verbal abuse.

What century were these rumors referring to? What were the rumors specifically? Will the opinions here really trump your in-person experience and change the way you rank programs? Did you seriously not ask anyone about those questions you raised?

 

[rddoms]

Children's Hospital is a few miles from the UW Medical Center, and gets nearly of the pediatrics in the area. There is a Peds Surgery fellowship offered there as well.

Cost of living is not cheap. $800 was on the low end for 2 bedroom apartments, but that was within .5 miles of UWMC. It gets more expensive if you want to live closer to Harborview (Capital/First Hill areas). Living close to the UW main campus is a good idea in my opinion. You can be close to all the hospitals, not have to worry much about somebody stealing your car, and be close to stores of all types (food, clothes, etc.). Just make sure you aren't living too close to the Greek System (16th-22nd, and 45th-49th), because you might leave for work to find a student passed out in your front lawn. I would avoid living close to Harborview if you can, there is more crime in that area.

 

[DBJ]

I'm an intern in the UW program and I absolutely love it. I actually couldn't imagine being anywhere else.

Yeah I heard the malignancy rumors as well before I matched here but I can tell you first hand it's not even slightly true. The tone of this place is constructive, educationally oriented, and totally centered around training surgeons. The attendings take a lot of pride in the residency program here and it shows. I've been really impressed, and surprised actually, at how nurturing the upper level residents and attendings have been. Even when I've made mistakes feedback has felt more like guidance than hostility. I feel pretty lucky that I'm getting top quality training and actually enjoying the experience.

The peds surgery intern rotation, which you mentioned, is really fun. The floor is staffed by PAs so we can operate a lot. I saw some wild cases while I was there because the catchment area is so big - that goes for just about every service at the UW hospitals. Conjoined twins, CDH, esophageal atresia, NEC are a few that I remember from my month. But remember your best bet for locking in a good peds fellowship is training at a place that's strong in general surgery.

Good luck everyone!

 

[medfriend]

How far below the 10 hour mark is UW for between rounds time off? How much of an issue is sleep deprivation/exhaustion as far as morale and mistakes? And based on what you have heard from attendings at UW how bad were the hours/call duty before they implemented the 80 hour rules?

 

[blue2000]

How far below the 10 hour mark is UW for between rounds time off? How much of an issue is sleep deprivation/exhaustion as far as morale and mistakes? And based on what you have heard from attendings at UW how bad were the hours/call duty before they implemented the 80 hour rules?

Usually, I would say that the when people violate the 10 hour rule (which is actually a suggestion rather than a hard and fast rule) the violations are at most an hour or two with rare exceptions.

Before the 80 hour work week, the hours were long and arduous at UW. Chiefs were Q2 in house at Harborview, which was not as busy as it is now (the number of ICU beds has probably quadrupled since that time) but it was still crazy. But that's been 10 years, at LEAST since that's been going on. The chairman was on the original ACGME committee to pass the 80 hour work week, and has quite a bit of skin in the game to prove that you can train general surgeons under the current work hour restrictions.

I don't see the exhaustion and sleep deprivation as a major issue for morale and mistakes. The resident comraderie is amazing. People have each other's backs. In listening in to M&Ms, the major F-ups seem to be with sign out rather than a single person making a mistake because they've been on too many hours.

UW is a hard working program (as I've said before). But so are most big academic surgical residencies attached to big busy county/trauma hospitals. It's fair, excellent training, and if it's the right culture for you, you will never respect and love a group of disparate people more than you love your residency class.