UNLV Ortho

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shmoopie

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Does anyone out there know what the heck is going on at UNLV? I hear some crazy stuff and don't know if it's true. I heard they hired this new director who is a total *****. I also heard it is being shut down due to accreditation problems. Anyone?
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All I know is that one of our prosthodontists left the clinic to do ortho at UNLV this year. I haven't heard anything about it being shut down. That would stink for the residents.
 
Is anyone applying there? I heard from my friend that they got killed in accreditation and this new guy I think his name is Saran or something like that, is basically letting residents and staff run the show. That for 45K a year? Yikes. I don't think I can convince my wife to even let me consider applying there.
 
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Contrary to misinformation in the undergraduate dental and graduate ortho communities, the ortho program at UNLV is alive and well and continuing to make huge strides as a program. New leadership guided the ortho program through a very successful accreditation process where multiple commendations were handed down from CODA and only few recommendations that naturally come with a "new" program navigating the process for the first time. They are well on track. The program being a 2 year certificate program plans to be a 3 year program in the future, but currently with cost of living in Las Vegas relatively low and one year less of tuition, it seems to be comparable in costs and attractive across the board. Unless you choose a 3 year program insisting on an accompanying Master's degree, UNLV Ortho would seem to be a great choice both professionally and financially for the right resident.
 
Huge strides? If you consider residents being unhappy, not having class or a formal education a good thing, I guess. My best friend is a senior at UNLV and was seriously considering applying to UNLV for ortho since his wife didn't want to leave and take their kids out of school, so he has talked to a lot of the residents at the program and is friends with many of them. You should hear the things they say about their own program and the director. It is a total joke. A bunch of faculty have also left the program. I also know for a fact (he forwarded the email to me form the dean regarding the accreditation) that they got at least 4 recommendations, a number of suggestions and just one commendation. That is really bad and unheard of in any ortho program nowadays, new or old.
I know some of the residents and faculty will have to save face and say that the program is alive and kicking, but the facts say otherwise, apparently.
 
I never thought I'd be defending UNLV. And, in a way, I'm not. I'm just trying to be fair to the situation out there in the desert.

Virtually all programs have slight to moderate levels of dysfunction. Some actually have severe levels. But I won't get into that.

I don't doubt that UNLV has some of its own problems. Yeah, they're shuffling faculty around. Yet, they're also in the process of hiring new folks. They'll get their act together. Fortunately for them, with the weather and other attractions they'll be able to get faculty. At least, some old-timers will always likely want to chip in and help. Same thing with the AZ program. I'd guess more retiring docs will surface to help those two programs.

Bottom line is: you gotta get in somewhere. UNLV no longer has the OEC stain. It's going to have growing pains, but I know some "established" programs that have their own share of growing (or dying) pains. UNLV should get their resident # under control (8 or less) and have more structure. Yet, I occasionally wish we had more structure, too.
 
All I can recommend to those applying to any program in the U.S. or Canada is that you personally investigate any program you are considering and not put too much faith or weight in the grapevine. It’s like buying a car, personally shop around and talk to multiple owners of the same model and ask questions. If I were in the shoes of you guys out there applying, I would visit firsthand with faculty and residents at all of the programs you are interested and learn the pros and cons. You may taken by complete surprise in the affirmative or negative about programs you hear otherwise about through the ether. Tha's all I've got, I’m signing off guys.
 
a
 
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Who the hell is this Saran guy anyway? Has anyone heard of him? Was he a director at another program? Like I said before, the residents at UNLV think he is a joke. I guess time will tell, but I sure as hell am going to take my tuition money and run elsewhere.
 
It sounds as if some have a vested interest in bashing that program? You wouldn't happen to be one of the recently reassigned faculty would you? If you want to get to know any program director, residents, or faculty then call them or set up a time and visit the respective program. What does any program director's history at another program have to do with anything...absolutely nothing! Every director was at one time not a director at their current program, the same for the residents and faculty. Again, your second hand information from a friend who heard from current residents banter is unreliable at best and would be the last information source anyone should take to heart in ruling on applying to that or any program.
 
Ha Ha... That's funny.
I am actually just trying to get to the bottom of what's going on at the program before I decide between any of the West US programs. It is a big decision, and one I don't want to regret.
 
Str8Tth said:
The program at UNLV is finally on the correct course. Dr Seran has taken over the directorship and is beginning to right a ship that was taken way off course by past leadership. Accreditation was successful,
Click to expand...

As long as accreditation process is successful, UNLV will be just as competitive as any other accredited ortho programs in the US. I don't think you need to have a strong director in order to have a strong program. When I graduated from my ortho program my prog director also quit his job for a better job at another program. I heard from my underclassmen that our program was just as strong under the new leadership of the interim director. My program had not have a permanent director for a few years b/c it has always been hard to find a board certified orthodontist who is willing to accept a lower paying job. My co-resident, whom I think is a very highly qualified orthodontist, now becomes the new director at our ortho program.

You actually learn more from part-time instructors (whom I think are better clinicians) than from your prog director or dept. chairperson. And for didactic portion, just read Proffitt, Nanda, Graber/Vanarsdall textbooks and a lot of journals.

Good luck UNLV🙂.
 
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That's great advise. Thanks Charles Tweed.
 
All those currently in an ortho program: Do parttime faculty also teach classes or are they just in the clinic?
 
Mods,

Lock this one up......the originator has an agenda.
 
Ok. I have been watching this thread go back and forth for a while and wasn't going to get involved at first, but then decided to put in my two cents worth. I am going to give you guys my own, first hand experience, not hearsay. I went to visit the program a little while ago and what you are hearing is just about that visit.

Let me start out by saying I cant comment on the old or the new directors. I have never heard of either one of them and quite frankly dont care. I went in with an open mind although I had heard some negative things about the program lately, but thought to give it a shot anyway just to find out for myself.

What I saw at UNLV, quite frankly, shocked and apalled me. Now, we have all seen chaos at our schools but this was on a whole different level. From what I saw (and heard) that day, the residents didn't really have any formal classes or education, and there was just this one nice old guy covering ALL the patients (I dont think he was the director). At first I thought this was just an unusual day for them, but the residents looked like they were used to it and it was just another normal day for them. I wanted to talk to both the first and the second year residents, but many of them weren't there the whole time. They just came and went and nobody cared. Worst yet, it seemed like a couple of the residents and the secretary were basically running the place and making decisions when someone needed something.

So I decided to talk to a couple of teh residents to see what they thought. At first they were defending the program and that the changes were no big deal, but when after a while you could see that they were really frustrated adn unhappy and concerned for their education. But they kept covering up by saying things like, well you are supposed to learn it all on your own anyway when you get out, which is true to a certain extent but not to this extent!!

The director (or anyother faculty) were not there that day, so I cant comment on them.

So boys and girls, take it for what its worth.

Peace out.
 
SFortho: You didn't happen to visit the program when shmoopie was there, did you? Was he a a gracious host?
 
I was there a couple of months ago.
 
Sounds like SFortho was right on about his assessment of UNLV ortho. I guess to be accredited you really do need some faculty around, instead of teaching yourself everything :laugh:. A troubled program taking another hit.
 
Anyone here applying to UNLV?
 
Here is the link and copied press release text to steps being taken at UNLV to remedy recommendations by CODA. It would appear that not only is the new director of the program righting deficiencies he inherited, but that he has the support of the school administration, including the dean of the dental school. Having administration support speaks volumes in “educational” institution hierarchy. I think while some will be sorely disappointed that the ship is being righted and the program progressing, UNLV will certainly improve and will come out of the process being a much better program in the end. You guys applying to programs should not discount them and continue investigating all programs without putting all your faith in he said she said...

http://publicaffairs.unlv.edu/news-PublicAffairs.html?id=488

Thursday, August 09, 2007


UNLV SCHOOL OF DENTAL MEDICINE ANNOUNCES IMPROVEMENTS TO ORTHODONTIC PROGRAM​


INTERNAL EVALUATION AND ACCREDITATION COMMISSION CONCUR ON STRATEGIC ACTIONS​

The UNLV School of Dental Medicine announced forthcoming improvements that represent the next step in the evolution of its advanced education in orthodontics and dentofacial orthopedics residency program. A variety of strategic actions will elevate the educational experience of dental residents, increase patient access and better match the school’s orthodontics program to the evolving needs of the local community and state.

“We are on the path to excellence, as indicated by the 100 percent pass rate for our class of 2007 on the American Board of Orthodontics examination,” said Dr. Karen West, dean of the UNLV School of Dental Medicine. “We have an opportunity to improve on this early success and create a nationally recognized orthodontic program.”

The following are among the improvements to be implemented:
• A progressive reduction in program size from the current 16 dental residents per class to eight per class. This step will more closely align enrollment in the orthodontics program with that of other programs nationwide, while also preventing saturation of the local market.
• An improved and broadened educational experience for dental residents created through an increased focus on patient access to care. Extended hours, reduced fees and payment plans will increase access for patients who could not otherwise receive care.
• Development of additional off-site experiences for dental residents. The UNLV School of Dental Medicine is exploring options for residents to rotate through external sites to expand their knowledge and experience with team treatment of complex cases.
• A renewed emphasis on faculty development and curriculum. When open faculty searches are complete, faculty members will have additional time for professional and curriculum development, which may include a new master’s degree program (subject to Board of Regents’ approval). This will increase both faculty and dental resident contributions to the discovery and dissemination of new knowledge and techniques.
• Development of closer working relationships with Nevada orthodontists. Currently, local orthodontists serve as part-time faculty in the program, bringing extensive experience and knowledge to the education of dental residents.

Findings from the UNLV School of Dental Medicine’s internal self-evaluation process and input from outside consultants were the impetus for the improvements. Further validating those findings, the Commission on Dental Accreditation (CODA) recently provided parallel recommendations with reporting requirements and a warning of intent to withdraw the program’s accreditation unless there has been sufficient progress towards achieving compliance with the recommendations. The CODA warning comes in standard language that ensures all dental-learning institutions promote continuous quality improvement in their programs.
 
on the other hand, why consider a program with the turmoil and past history of UNLV.

yeah, i know the argument you're still an orthodontist... but that's a whole lot of crap and circumstance to deal with if it's not necessary. unlv will always be a former oec school...
 
I have to say, Imurhuckleberry's latest post made me LOL!!!!
Anyone with half a brain can see that UNLV was probably forced to post their horrendous accreditation outcome on the website (perhaps for future applicants' benefit??) and then tried to hide it in bunch of damage control b.s.!! And where does he or she get that the new director has the administration's support? From what I saw his or her name was never mentioned anywhere on the newspaper article or the website stuff posted and you'd think that if he/she had the schoo's support in "righting the situation" they would have at least talked about or quoted this new director. Looks like Imurhuckleberry is too personally connected to the situation at UNLV. Perhaps the culprit(s)? You decide. But in anycase, smells like a coverup to me!!!!!:laugh:
 
They also never quoted any previous (i.e. no longer with the UNLV orthodontic program) orthodontic faculty that were interviewed by the newspaper, when they are the reason the program is being revamped. Maybe the newspaper just doesn't like quoting people...? Or maybe the newspaper has it out for the dental school as a whole...? Let's see if they put anything in the paper about the new program that Chester (Lynn) Hurst is allegedly trying to start in the Las Vegas area that is not even associated with a dental school or a med school...

If you want an accurate picture of what is going on at the school, visit them and ask a knowledgeable source and not someone that visited the school one time on one day a couple months ago.
 
If UNLV sucks so much, do they even have a lot of applicants? Is it easier to get into? and once you graduated can you becoming a practicing orthodontist (get a certificate)? What kind of stats do you need or do they even care?
 
i believe if they lose accredition you do not get a certificate, but you can certainly practice orthodontics.

and yes, it's probably easier to get into than some of the more reputable programs.


fineguy2o9 said:
If UNLV sucks so much, do they even have a lot of applicants? Is it easier to get into? and once you graduated can you becoming a practicing orthodontist (get a certificate)? What kind of stats do you need or do they even care?
Click to expand...
 
Has any orthodontics program ever lost it's accreditation? I've searched online and can't find any.
 
Jone said:
i believe if they lose accredition you do not get a certificate, but you can certainly practice orthodontics.

and yes, it's probably easier to get into than some of the more reputable programs.
Click to expand...
My GPR is going through re-accreditation as we speak. If a program loses its accreditation, current residents are allowed to complete the program as normal. It's done that way to encourage residents to give honest feedback without fearing for their careers.
 
My friend's orthodontic program was on the verge of losing its accreditation in 1999. All 1st and 2nd year residents were told that they would NOT be affected by this. The prog director asked them to help clean up the mess that previous residents left behind. After several months of preparation, his program successfully passed all the requirements and was able to maintain its accreditation. I guess once you are accepted to an accredited program (even to a shaky one), you are allowed to finish.

I was accepted to Northwestern ortho program, but later got the notice that the school board decided to close its dental school permanently. Yep, I got screwed. So it won't be good if you get accepted to UNLV and later find out that UNLV loses its accreditation. I hope this will not happen to UNLV and I hope its new director will help the program get out of this trouble. 🙂
 
Charles Tweed, now you have us all curious. Can you tell us about how long ago that happened? Do you know of any other programs that went through that?
 
shmoopie said:
Charles Tweed, now you have us all curious. Can you tell us about how long ago that happened? Do you know of any other programs that went through that?
Click to expand...


I'm not Charlestweed, but I suspect it was about 8 years ago.......😉
 
Stuff like this happens all the time. According to the ADA, there are currently 23 dental residency programs with recommendations to their current accreditation status.

Some people just have a vendetta against certain programs, so be sure to do your own research and make your own decision.
 
I dont know much about all the politics and the acreditation stuff, so I hope someone out there can enlighten me. I don't want to spend teh next couple of years of my life (and tons of cash) in a program and find out it is not accredited. :scared:

210 conference brings up an interesting point. So how common is the problem UNLV is having? I talked to the director at my school and he said typically a program may get one or two things they need to improve on, but that teh acrediting agencies don't actaully threaten to take away their acreditation (like they did at unlv, according to teh article someone posted). I hope you guys out there can explain it to me. I dont know who else to ask!
 
The "intent to withdraw" verbiage is applied to 4 programs currently. It is just something that CODA has to put if they want the corrections made in 6 months instead of 2 year so the program won't be able to drag their feet when making the changes. This is good for incoming applicants since you know the program will be up to par by the time you get there or else it won't be there at all.
 
http://www.ada.org/prof/ed/programs/search_advanced_us.asp.

I thought this was interesting. You can search and find status of each program. I believe for ortho there were 2 initial accreditation ( MUSC and ATSU), 1 Approval with reporting(intent to withdraw) this one is UNLV, 1 approval with reporting-Puerto Rico, the rest are all Approval without reporting requirements.

The tough part for UNLV will be to get students to take the chance that the program will be accredited when they enter in July, because they were only given 6 months instead of 2 years to correct deficiencies.

I think UNLV will probably be fine.
 
Wow. Great website docj1. It came in really handy since I got a chance to look at the status of all the ortho programs I am looking into. And you are right; UNLV is currently the only ortho program listed on the site with "intent to withdraw." Thanks for the great resource. We should probably let applicants in other specialty programs know about this website so that they can check about their programs as well.
 
what does it mean by intent to withdraw and what kind of deficiencies do they have?
 
210Conference said:
The "intent to withdraw" verbiage is applied to 4 programs currently.
Click to expand...

That same message was applied to my dental school last year, as a result of a couple of papers not being properly filed with CODA. According to what I was told, the lack of those papers causes the system to automatically trigger the "intent to withdraw" status. My school filed the papers, and the status was changed to accredited.

So in our case the "intent to withdraw" was almost a laughable matter. It may or may not be more serious in UNLV ortho's case.
 
Thanks GavinC. I hope for UNLV's sake that their situation is similar to your dental school's adn just a formality.
Now that Peurto Rico's ortho program has been mentioned in this thread, does anyone know what issues they are having? I applied there and wouldnt mind living somewhere tropicalb for a couple of years, but not if they are having srious problems.
 
shmoopie said:
Thanks GavinC. I hope for UNLV's sake that their situation is similar to your dental school's adn just a formality.
Now that Peurto Rico's ortho program has been mentioned in this thread, does anyone know what issues they are having? I applied there and wouldnt mind living somewhere tropicalb for a couple of years, but not if they are having srious problems.
Click to expand...

To save yourself some stress, it's probably better to attend a well-established program, or at least a program with a well-established support system. I don't know anything about the PR program.
 
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