Unmatched Applicant Job?

[TexasPhysician]

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In seeing a few other physicians offer a position to unmatched residents, I’ve thought about creating a paid position at my private practice that would mix gathering histories, scribe work, medical assistant, and receptionist work. Obviously graduating medical students would be overly qualified for much of the position, but it could provide a way to maintain a clinical life until the next application season. Would such a position be seen as a worthwhile use of time to residency programs? Shows ongoing interest in psych is my thought. Would applying students be interested vs the current alternatives? Waste of time? Feel free to be blunt. I’m honestly unsure if this is insulting, an excellent opportunity to avoid bench research for a year, or somewhere in between.

 

[Stagg737]

I think it's actually a nice idea. Plenty of good, unmatched individuals looking for something to do, especially if it's a paid position. Obviously Idk how PDs would look at it, but if you throw in some research opportunities (chart review or lit review) I'd think it could be a nice addition to an application. Biggest barrier might be actually finding someone, idk how far people would be willing to move for a one year opportunity in a PP. Very interesting idea though, and thank you (and everyone else) for supporting our community!

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

And gives them the opportunity for a good recommendation letter from a practicing psychiatrist (as long as they do well of course...) rather than from someone in research, which sometimes isn't as valuable. If you can give a recommendation letter discussing the person's interest in psychiatry, clinical skills you've observed, work ethic you've observed, etc. could make a valuable addition to a re-application.

Definitely not insulting when the alternative is never matching and having a 200K piece of paper hanging on your wall as your reward for med school.

 

[psychguy5]

As someone who is unmatched and likely forced to graduate, I think an opportunity like this would be great.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I think it's actually a nice idea. Plenty of good, unmatched individuals looking for something to do, especially if it's a paid position. Obviously Idk how PDs would look at it, but if you throw in some research opportunities (chart review or lit review) I'd think it could be a nice addition to an application. Biggest barrier might be actually finding someone, idk how far people would be willing to move for a one year opportunity in a PP. Very interesting idea though, and thank you (and everyone else) for supporting our community!

Im certainly not expecting anyone to move for this. What in your opinion is a reasonable hourly rate in a relatively low cost of living area?

 

[FlowRate]

Would such a position be seen as a worthwhile use of time to residency programs?

I don't think I really have the relevant experience to give an answer, because I'm only familiar with competitive academic settings. And in that context doing research plus a couple of sub-I's would be way more valuable. But again, I'm not a PD and especially not familiar with the process at community residencies that might not care about research.

Im certainly not expecting anyone to move for this. What in your opinion is a reasonable hourly rate in a relatively low cost of living area?

Depends how generous you are. At most I'd expect to pay whatever the median is for an outpatient RN in your area. And at least whatever scribes/MA's are paid.

 

[Stagg737]

I don't think I really have the relevant experience to give an answer, because I'm only familiar with competitive academic settings. And in that context doing research plus a couple of sub-I's would be way more valuable.

Sure, but for a lot of grads this may not be as realistic, especially if there are financial barriers. I think my PD and program would probably look at this pretty favorably. I know many of our residents were non-trad and had lives outside of medicine so it wouldn't be too out of the norm where I'm at.

Im certainly not expecting anyone to move for this. What in your opinion is a reasonable hourly rate in a relatively low cost of living area?

Agree with Flow. Assuming their hard-working and not totally incompetent they should easily fill the role of an MA. That's about 30k per year which should be minimal for COL plus having to start paying off loans. I certainly would not take an employed position for less than $20k per unless I knew I'd also be getting some solid publications or other major connections to residency programs. To give you a reference point, when I was a fast-food delivery driver in northern IL I was making the equivalent of ~35k/yr. Another reference point is that several job sites have average MA income in TX between $20-40k/yr (30-35k seems to be more specific). I think a starting offer of $30k and mentorship for basic research would be fine. Maybe throw in a small relocation/sign-on bonus if someone is making a major move, but idk. Just throwing out what I'd consider reasonable.

 

[psychtech]

This is something I would heavily consider if it were available in my area, although I may still lean toward what my school is currently offering (delayed graduation until December that is tuition free allowing away rotations, sub-I's and research). That said, as I understand it many people's schools don't have such options so in that case I would almost assuredly go for this. I would accept something like this for somewhere around $25 per hour I think (around where my wages as a psych tech would be), maybe a bit less. If there were opportunities for chart review research etc., that would certainly make this even more enticing. Perhaps the greatest reward though to a recent grad could be the sense of purpose this could provide for them for a year if they felt like they were contributing to patient care. I imagine that I would be highly motivated in such a situation compared to the idea of doing more rotations as a medical student.

It is great to hear that people are thinking of us! Knowing that honestly makes me feel better about this whole thing.

 

[risperdoll]

I would 100% be interested in something like this and have been combing the entire country for opportunities like this. I don’t have any formal research experience and am not interested in any research-focused programs, so I’m afraid I’ll have trouble gaining a research position, but I know I am clinically strong and would do well in a position like this. I would definitely consider moving for something like this.

 

[jack2468]

In seeing a few other physicians offer a position to unmatched residents, I’ve thought about creating a paid position at my private practice that would mix gathering histories, scribe work, medical assistant, and receptionist work. Obviously graduating medical students would be overly qualified for much of the position, but it could provide a way to maintain a clinical life until the next application season. Would such a position be seen as a worthwhile use of time to residency programs? Shows ongoing interest in psych is my thought. Would applying students be interested vs the current alternatives? Waste of time? Feel free to be blunt. I’m honestly unsure if this is insulting, an excellent opportunity to avoid bench research for a year, or somewhere in between.

Please also consider remote jobs as most imgs have a hard time getting visas.
Thank you

 

[robellis]

Please also consider remote jobs as most imgs have a hard time getting visas.
Thank you

How is he going to use a remote person to be a scribe and medical assistant lol

 

[Lilde]

It is definitely a great opportunity. Finding even an observership nowadays is very hard. Having a paid opportunity like this? I would even consider moving to Texas for a while!

 

[Candidate2017]

But can you trust an AMG whom numerous program directors have passed upon?

Perhaps in certain limited situations. For example, they did not match because they ranked only 2 programs due to familial/geographical constraints.

 

[Sushirolls]

But can you trust an AMG whom numerous program directors have passed upon?

Perhaps in certain limited situations. For example, they did not match because they ranked only 2 programs due to familial/geographical constraints.

Probably far more than you can trust an ARNP grad or PA grad.

This is why we should be advocating for the end of step/level III exams and its requirement for state licensure. MD/DO grads from American schools should be able to have an independent license upon graduation. Compared to the product of PA (and their push for independence) and ARNPs, there really is no reason to not make these changes.

 

[Mass Effect]

Probably far more than you can trust an ARNP grad or PA grad.

This is why we should be advocating for the end of step/level III exams and its requirement for state licensure. MD/DO grads from American schools should be able to have an independent license upon graduation. Compared to the product of PA (and their push for independence) and ARNPs, there really is no reason to not make these changes.

Disagree. I don't really care about the Steps, but allowing independent practice after med school is just asking for the profession to take a hit. It may be rare, but there are a lot of people who fail out of residency for good reason. And sorry, but no, I don't want some MS4 + 1 month operating independently on my gallbladder.

Just because the midlevels do it doesn't mean we should.

 

[Sushirolls]

Without this change, we stand no chance in keeping MD/DO/MBBS around. We will all become antiquated over time as corporate influences prioritize the cheaper more replaceable, throw away widget as the defacto Provider.

A key to the future is ending the need, the reliance on PA/ARNPs in any market, and you do that by having a massive labor force of MD/DO grads with their independent license (no residence) ready to fill the rolls of midlevels. Residency/fellowships will be limited and a new equilibrium will emerge between these 'GP Docs' and specialists.

 

[Mass Effect]

Without this change, we stand no chance in keeping MD/DO/MBBS around. We will all become antiquated over time as corporate influences prioritize the cheaper more replaceable, throw away widget as the defacto Provider.

A key to the future is ending the need, the reliance on PA/ARNPs in any market, and you do that by having a massive labor force of MD/DO grads with their independent license (no residence) ready to fill the rolls of midlevels. Residency/fellowships will be limited and a new equilibrium will emerge between these 'GP Docs' and specialists.

And who goes to residency? Are you saying that everyone graduates with a license for GP work and if you want to specialize, you go to residency?

 

[Splenda88]

Im certainly not expecting anyone to move for this. What in your opinion is a reasonable hourly rate in a relatively low cost of living area?

Take care of your fellows. $20+/hr would be reasonable.

 

[Splenda88]

Without this change, we stand no chance in keeping MD/DO/MBBS around. We will all become antiquated over time as corporate influences prioritize the cheaper more replaceable, throw away widget as the defacto Provider.

A key to the future is ending the need, the reliance on PA/ARNPs in any market, and you do that by having a massive labor force of MD/DO grads with their independent license (no residence) ready to fill the rolls of midlevels. Residency/fellowships will be limited and a new equilibrium will emerge between these 'GP Docs' and specialists.

I agree, but a better way to do it is to do something like Puerto Rico (PR). 1-yr post grad non AGCME accredited internship to be eligible for GP license. PR has no NP/PA (except CRNA). Most outpatient PC clinics and fast track ER are run by GP. I did a couple of rotations in PR as a MS4 and found that to be very interesting.

 

[ridethecliche]

Sure, but for a lot of grads this may not be as realistic, especially if there are financial barriers. I think my PD and program would probably look at this pretty favorably. I know many of our residents were non-trad and had lives outside of medicine so it wouldn't be too out of the norm where I'm at.



Agree with Flow. Assuming their hard-working and not totally incompetent they should easily fill the role of an MA. That's about 30k per year which should be minimal for COL plus having to start paying off loans. I certainly would not take an employed position for less than $20k per unless I knew I'd also be getting some solid publications or other major connections to residency programs. To give you a reference point, when I was a fast-food delivery driver in northern IL I was making the equivalent of ~35k/yr. Another reference point is that several job sites have average MA income in TX between $20-40k/yr (30-35k seems to be more specific). I think a starting offer of $30k and mentorship for basic research would be fine. Maybe throw in a small relocation/sign-on bonus if someone is making a major move, but idk. Just throwing out what I'd consider reasonable.

I know you're talking about low cost of living areas...but man, my first job out of college at an academic hospital was 32k or 34k a year.
Those med school loans are going to come knocking out of training. Only way someone could do this is if it's in their neighborhood already and they don't have to pay for housing if they can live with their parents etc. Not the worst setup for a year, but man that number sounds harsh.

Of course, you get a lot more for the money not living in a northeast city, but it just hurts to hear haha.

The work is also likely less stressful and more meaningful than delivering food... so there's that. I guess one has to ask themselves the question... "Am I doing this because I want to help people and want them to feel good about it?" or "Do I need this help and want to fill the position with someone I feel would benefit the most from this experience?". Could be a bit of both, but the second one sounds a bit better.

 

[dl2dp2]

It would be even more enticing and contributive to the future matching process if this is structured in the context of a "research fellowship", which is easy enough to do by opening a non-profit that does "quality improvement research".

 

[Stagg737]

I know you're talking about low cost of living areas...but man, my first job out of college at an academic hospital was 32k or 34k a year.
Those med school loans are going to come knocking out of training. Only way someone could do this is if it's in their neighborhood already and they don't have to pay for housing if they can live with their parents etc. Not the worst setup for a year, but man that number sounds harsh.

Of course, you get a lot more for the money not living in a northeast city, but it just hurts to hear haha.

The work is also likely less stressful and more meaningful than delivering food... so there's that. I guess one has to ask themselves the question... "Am I doing this because I want to help people and want them to feel good about it?" or "Do I need this help and want to fill the position with someone I feel would benefit the most from this experience?". Could be a bit of both, but the second one sounds a bit better.

For reference, while in grad school and med school I lived off of $15k/yr or less while paying rent and pretty much everything else other than my phone bill and car insurance. So very doable if not having to pay back loans. So $30k/yr is certainly doable before taking med student loans into account. I agree that including those it would be significantly more difficult.

 

[ridethecliche]

For reference, while in grad school and med school I lived off of $15k/yr or less while paying rent and pretty much everything else other than my phone bill and car insurance. So very doable if not having to pay back loans. So $30k/yr is certainly doable before taking med student loans into account. I agree that including those it would be significantly more difficult.

Depends on where you live. I can assure you that my old apartment now costs about 2x what I used to pay for it 10 years ago and that job I worked pays maybe 2-3k more at most.

 

[LimpSpatula]

In seeing a few other physicians offer a position to unmatched residents, I’ve thought about creating a paid position at my private practice that would mix gathering histories, scribe work, medical assistant, and receptionist work. Obviously graduating medical students would be overly qualified for much of the position, but it could provide a way to maintain a clinical life until the next application season. Would such a position be seen as a worthwhile use of time to residency programs? Shows ongoing interest in psych is my thought. Would applying students be interested vs the current alternatives? Waste of time? Feel free to be blunt. I’m honestly unsure if this is insulting, an excellent opportunity to avoid bench research for a year, or somewhere in between.

Hire one of these folks in Arizona

SB1271 | Arizona 2021 | associate physicians; licensure; collaborative practice | TrackBill

Arizona SB1271 2021

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You can have them do all the above + order meds, labs, follow up on easy, stable cases.