Unmatched in 2011? Would like to interview you for nat'l news story

[tonyyounmd]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I'm a physician and writer for a national news network. I'm writing a story about the Match and how there are more and more graduating medical students vying for a limited number of residency positions. If you or someone you know was unable to match in 2011 then I'd love to hear your story. What did you do afterwards? Your indentity can remain confidential if you like, or it's possible you may be chosen to discuss the topic on national television.

I'm also doing a possible story on how high student loan debt may affect a medical student's choice of specialty. If you have high debt, are considering a higher paying specialty because of it (or deciding not to do primary care for this reason), and would discuss your thoughts and situation on national TV, please let me know.

Please email me via Student Doctor.net here or to my personal email address: [email protected]. Thank you!

 

[auburnO5]

Solid troll.

 

[eject]

Solid troll.

looks like this dude: http://www.amazon.com/Stitches-Anthony-Youn/dp/1451649762

 

[thepoopologist]

Solid troll.

No, he's actually not.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Solid troll.

FYI, verified media icon=legit.

 

[scarshapedstar]

looks like this dude: http://www.amazon.com/Stitches-Anthony-Youn/dp/1451649762

Tony spent the next four years mired in the angst, flubs, triumphs, nonstop studying, intermittent heavy drinking, and sexual frustration of medical school. He entered a shy, skinny nerd with no nerve, no game, and no clue. He left a doctor.

Ha! I haven't even started med school but I've already been doing that for four years!

 

[CaptainSSO]

I thought there was a physician shortage?

So, more people are attending med school and there hasn't been a commensurate increase in residency spots?

 

[smq123]

I thought there was a physician shortage?

There's a shortage of primary care physicians, but there's also a shortage of money to pay for more residency spots.

Add on to the fact that the NRMP website (which is the main website for the scramble) crashed for ~6 hours last year, and let's just say that last year wasn't such a good year for the Match.

So, more people are attending med school and there hasn't been a commensurate increase in residency spots?

Exactly.

 

[Orbo]

I thought there was a physician shortage?

So, more people are attending med school and there hasn't been a commensurate increase in residency spots?

There's a shortage of primary care physicians, but there's also a shortage of money to pay for more residency spots.

Add on to the fact that the NRMP website (which is the main website for the scramble) crashed for ~6 hours last year, and let's just say that last year wasn't such a good year for the Match.



Exactly.

Technically there's still plenty of residency spots to go around for all the U.S. seniors graduating per year. Lots of family medicine spots go unfilled every year. In a twisted way one could argue that's a good thing: by increasing medical students and keeping residency training spots the same, we'd fill up those previously unfilled family med positions. That would be true.

But that would be the ass-backwards approach. The shortage in PCPs is because the incentives for it suck. Fix the incentives and the PCP problem will go away overnight.(and by incentives I mean financial incentives, primarily)

 

[tonyyounmd]

Thank you for all your input (except the one that called me a troll. What does that mean?)
Yes, I am the author of the book mentioned, and I'm also a regular contributing writer for CNN.com and MSNBC.com.
My CNN.com articles can be found here: http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/tag/anthony-youn-m-d-plastic-surgeon-2/
Here is an example of an MSNBC.com article I wrote (plastic surgery-related): http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/43331...beware-celeb-parts-look-best-original-owners/
I'm also an Assistant professor at Oakland University / William Beaumont School of Medicine.

So, that out of the way, I've heard from a few physician faculty members at medical schools that they have a concern that as more and more medical schools pop up (at least 2-3 new ones in my state of Michigan alone), there won't be a compensatory increase in residency spots to accomodate these graduating students. I'm still compiling statistics, but it seems to be a legit concern.
So I'm hoping to speak with a medical student (or more) who went unmatched in order to get his or her story about it. The student's identity can remain confidential if desired.
I suspect this problem will be more of an issue for IMG's more than US Medical grads.

Any input and comments are appreciated. There is an unfortunate belief in much of the general public that physicians have it easy. We get paid well, get to boss nurses around, drive our BMW's, and golf every day. I think it's important for the national press to cover the difficulties of medical training and the stress of Match Day / Scramble.

Thank you everyone.

 

[QuizzicalApe]

Troll is internet parlance for someone who attempts to elicit emotional, negative, or otherwise "amusing" responses by posting something ridiculous, quarrelsome, or deceitful. The name comes from the fishing concept of trolling, where you drag bait through the water to attempt to catch something.
You were probably called a troll because the person suspected you weren't actually writing an article, but rather wanted to expose people who didn't match for the purpose of mockery.

 

[Newusername]

Any chance you're trying to gather some stats for your article?

Things like USMLE/Comlex scores and GPA/Class rank numbers for people who go unmatched..... I suspect there are some highly qualified graduates who end up not matching (but I have no data or anecdotes to back that up)

 

[Igor4sugry]

So, that out of the way, I've heard from a few physician faculty members at medical schools that they have a concern that as more and more medical schools pop up (at least 2-3 new ones in my state of Michigan alone), there won't be a compensatory increase in residency spots to accomodate these graduating students. I'm still compiling statistics, but it seems to be a legit concern.
So I'm hoping to speak with a medical student (or more) who went unmatched in order to get his or her story about it. The student's identity can remain confidential if desired.
I suspect this problem will be more of an issue for IMG's more than US Medical grads.

Any input and comments are appreciated. There is an unfortunate belief in much of the general public that physicians have it easy. We get paid well, get to boss nurses around, drive our BMW's, and golf every day. I think it's important for the national press to cover the difficulties of medical training and the stress of Match Day / Scramble.

Thank you everyone.

I think it is better to interview the presidents of these new schools. Find out what their real motives are.
Why interview the poor student that didn't match? Everyone knows that his/her future is shot and he/she will spend the rest of the adult working years paying off the mountain of loans and unable to buy a house or save for retirement.

 

[Igor4sugry]

There is an unfortunate belief in much of the general public that physicians have it easy. We get paid well, get to boss nurses around, drive our BMW's, and golf every day. I think it's important for the national press to cover the difficulties of medical training and the stress of Match Day / Scramble.

Thank you everyone.

Have you seen the physician parking lot in any hospital? What are the cars there?
I'm still a med student and I understand that physicians today don't have it as good.

But many docs still love to show off their expensive cars and walk around in expensive suits even though they are at some tiny no-name community hospital.

 

[turkeyjerky]

Have you seen the physician parking lot in any hospital? What are the cars there?
I'm still a med student and I understand that physicians today don't have it as good.

But many docs still love to show off their expensive cars and walk around in expensive suits even though they are at some tiny no-name community hospital.

Those docs at "tiny no-name community hospitals" probably do quite a bit better than your attendings at high-powered academic hospital.

 

[pkwraith]

Value MD might be a better place to find sources. That's where all the Caribbean students hang out.

 

[TheMan21]

Thank you for all your input (except the one that called me a troll. What does that mean?)

i think you were called a troll cause you're asking for stories about people who didn't match, and your email address identifies you as a plastic surgeon. Since that is one of the hardest specialties to match into, it looked like you were just mocking those who didn't match.

 

[turkeyjerky]

Value MD might be a better place to find sources. That's where all the Caribbean students hang out.

I don't think that would be nearly as useful for the OP. Which would you rather hear about, a hard working student who excelled in undergrad and at a well-known university med school, or a slacker who went to a diploma mill in the caribbean?

 

[tonyyounmd]

I'm also working on a possible TV segment about how student loan debt can affect a person's choice of specialty. If your loans have 'scared' you away from a lower-paying primary care specialty, and you would be willing to share your thoughts on TV or print media, please let me know.

By the way, thanks for the "troll" clarification. I assumed it meant Spammer or something. Makes a lot of sense now! Definitely not a troll...

 

[eject]

I'm also working on a possible TV segment about how student loan debt can affect a person's choice of specialty. If your loans have 'scared' you away from a lower-paying primary care specialty, and you would be willing to share your thoughts on TV or print media, please let me know.

By the way, thanks for the "troll" clarification. I assumed it meant Spammer or something. Makes a lot of sense now! Definitely not a troll...

this has no relevance to you at all, but in thinking of not knowing what "troll" was, my mind leapt to "noob" which made me think of memes, which made me think of this. Purely for our enjoyment.


See more on Know Your Meme

 

[michaelrack]

But many docs still love to show off their expensive cars and walk around in expensive suits even though they are at some tiny no-name community hospital.

My car is a 2006 Pontiac Grand Prix with over 200k miles; I bought it used several yrs ago. I personally don't wear suits that often, but must admit that the ones I own and occasionally wear are expensive. Every medical student or doctor should own at least 1-2 high-quality suits.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm also working on a possible TV segment about how student loan debt can affect a person's choice of specialty. If your loans have 'scared' you away from a lower-paying primary care specialty, and you would be willing to share your thoughts on TV or print media, please let me know....

It doesn't have that kind of impact yet -- the lowest paying fields still offer average salary over $100k, and tend to have shorter residency than some of the bigger money fields. So you can still service a lot of tuition debt, albeit at a hit to lifestyle. We dont currently see people who really want to be a pediatrician going into derm or rads because the pay is better. If you wait a few years, as tuition debt keeps rising and reimbursement cuts continue to lower the bottom line, the impact you discuss could happen. But that story is premature, from what I can see.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
So, that out of the way, I've heard from a few physician faculty members at medical schools that they have a concern that as more and more medical schools pop up (at least 2-3 new ones in my state of Michigan alone), there won't be a compensatory increase in residency spots to accomodate these graduating students. I'm still compiling statistics, but it seems to be a legit concern.
So I'm hoping to speak with a medical student (or more) who went unmatched in order to get his or her story about it. The student's identity can remain confidential if desired.
I suspect this problem will be more of an issue for IMG's more than US Medical grads.
....

this is going to be an almost exclusive issue for IMGs. The number of residency spots still significantly exceeds the number of US grads, and a very very low percentage of US grads end up with no spots after the match and scramble. IMGs however vastly outnumber the shortfall between US residents and additional demand. And perhaps will be at an additional disadvantage now that there is SOAP rather than the scramble. It's naive to think this isn't partially by design. The ACGME since it's press releases in about 2005 has been uttering concern about the lack of LCME oversight of US citizens in offshore (Caribbean) schools, and in the same breath asked US schools to increase their numbers, clearly a calculated move to drive this offshore cottage industry out of the game. At the same time this new scramble system is coming to fruition, which should give a nice tactical advantage to US players. I don't think there is anything wrong with that -- US students should fill US needs. So no, there are zero concerns about new US med school students not getting spots in this or the next match or two. But ultimately the goal is to have a completely domestically filled match. Once we met that threshold, the notions in your article might become relevant. Until then, still a few years away, it's exclusively an IMG issue.

 

[turkeyjerky]

It doesn't have that kind of impact yet -- the lowest paying fields still offer average salary over $100k, and tend to have shorter residency than some of the bigger money fields. So you can still service a lot of tuition debt, albeit at a hit to lifestyle. We dont currently see people who really want to be a pediatrician going into derm or rads because the pay is better. If you wait a few years, as tuition debt keeps rising and reimbursement cuts continue to lower the bottom line, the impact you discuss could happen. But that story is premature, from what I can see.

this is going to be an almost exclusive issue for IMGs. The number of residency spots still significantly exceeds the number of US grads, and a very very low percentage of US grads end up with no spots after the match and scramble. IMGs however vastly outnumber the shortfall between US residents and additional demand. And perhaps will be at an additional disadvantage now that there is SOAP rather than the scramble. It's naive to think this isn't partially by design. The ACGME since it's press releases in about 2005 has been uttering concern about the lack of LCME oversight of US citizens in offshore (Caribbean) schools, and in the same breath asked US schools to increase their numbers, clearly a calculated move to drive this offshore cottage industry out of the game. At the same time this new scramble system is coming to fruition, which should give a nice tactical advantage to US players. I don't think there is anything wrong with that -- US students should fill US needs. So no, there are zero concerns about new US med school students not getting spots in this or the next match or two. But ultimately the goal is to have a completely domestically filled match. Once we met that threshold, the notions in your article might become relevant. Until then, still a few years away, it's exclusively an IMG issue.

Tell that to the nearly 10% of last year's graduating class at my (top 50 U.S.) med school that went unmatched.

 

[Law2Doc]

...


Tell that to the nearly 10% of last year's graduating class at my (top 50 U.S.) med school that went unmatched.

and they didn't scramble into something? (I included the match and scramble together). With a national US senior match rate of 94%, and another few % able to scramble, I find it unlikely that 10% at a "top" US school didn't land something unless they opted to stay out of the scramble and try their luck for something better in the match next year after a research year. 😕

 

[tiedyeddog]

Tell that to the nearly 10% of last year's graduating class at my (top 50 U.S.) med school that went unmatched.

Not calling you a liar, but how it that possible? I thought upwards of 97% of US MD grads matched somewhere? Did all of those 10% actually enter the match or did some sit out for an off year or something?

Wow, that's depressing.

 

[turkeyjerky]

and they didn't scramble into something? (I included the match and scramble together). With a national US senior match rate of 94%, and another few % able to scramble, I find it unlikely that 10% at a "top" US school didn't land something unless they opted to stay out of the scramble and try their luck for something better in the match next year after a research year. 😕

I don't consider the match and scramble together. Half of that 10% scrambled into a prelim year and the other half took the year off. Neither of those count as 'successes'.

 

[Morsetlis]

Try coming back in 2016 for me!

 

[Law2Doc]

I don't consider the match and scramble together. Half of that 10% scrambled into a prelim year and the other half took the year off. Neither of those count as 'successes'.

There are always a handful of people each year who "scramble" into good positions and would stil consider themselves successful. So I don't think the scramble per se needs to be excluded from career success. At any rate with an annual US match rate of 94%, any US allo school where 10% of applicants go unmatched either has a bad reputation with PDs, or, more likely, is doing a really bad job advising folks. Most US med schools outside of the "top 50" are doing better than this.

 

[2012mdc]

There are always a handful of people each year who "scramble" into good positions and would stil consider themselves successful. So I don't think the scramble per se needs to be excluded from career success. At any rate with an annual US match rate of 94%, any US allo school where 10% of applicants go unmatched either has a bad reputation with PDs, or, more likely, is doing a really bad job advising folks. Most US med schools outside of the "top 50" are doing better than this.

It's probably has to do with people going for specialties that they aren't competitive for. Either receiving bad advice or ignoring the advice.

There are open spots in some pretty good specialties this year. If one SOAPs into derm or rads that could be considered a success

 

[turkeyjerky]

There are always a handful of people each year who "scramble" into good positions and would stil consider themselves successful. So I don't think the scramble per se needs to be excluded from career success. At any rate with an annual US match rate of 94%, any US allo school where 10% of applicants go unmatched either has a bad reputation with PDs, or, more likely, is doing a really bad job advising folks. Most US med schools outside of the "top 50" are doing better than this.

I should've been clearer--10% of my school's 2011 graduating class went either unmatched or only secured a prelim year (split 50-50). I have no idea of those who scrambled into their desired fields.

I would agree w/ you about the bad advising, however I doubt our rep is bad among PDs since plenty of students match into competitive programs/specialties every year. I would expect that most of those students were attempting to get into fields they weren't competitive for, but I don't think that this abrogates my argument that to say that the expansion of medical school classes is not having an effect on US students is frankly ridiculous.

 

[JackShephard MD]

It's probably has to do with people going for specialties that they aren't competitive for. Either receiving bad advice or ignoring the advice.

There are open spots in some pretty good specialties this year. If one SOAPs into derm or rads that could be considered a success

Where are the open spots listed? Just curious.

 

[FlowLimited]

Where are the open spots listed? Just curious.

They are currently available on the NRMP website, but only to those of us who participated in this year's match.

 

[45408]

Have you seen the physician parking lot in any hospital? What are the cars there?
I'm still a med student and I understand that physicians today don't have it as good.

But many docs still love to show off their expensive cars and walk around in expensive suits even though they are at some tiny no-name community hospital.

My attendings drive vehicles like a Ford Escape, Toyota RAV4, Volvo, Subaru....