"Unprofessional and even unlawful behavior" from JHUSOM

[ertapenemevelix]

In a school-wide email sent earlier today regarding the last two JHUSOM formals:

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[ertapenemevelix]

In plain text:

Unfortunately, there were instances of unprofessional and even unlawful behavior reported by R House management, including the following:

• An R-house bartender was assaulted at the event by an attendee upset that they would not be served alcohol.
• Several R-house bartenders reported disrespectful and demeaning comments from attendees, including belittling language about the salary of the bartenders.
• Several R-house bartenders reported attendees refusing to show their "drink-count" wrist band, refusing to pay, or arguing about the alcohol policy.
• Several display beers were stolen by attendees from the R-house bars.
• One attendee attempted to steal a bottle of wine from the bar's transportation cart after the closure of bars.
• Several attendees brought flasks or other containers with alcohol intended for personal consumption. (which could have resulted in R House losing their liquor license)

The management team at R House shared their disbelief that students exhibiting this behavior were the future of medicine, and they have banned Hopkins medical students from ever holding an event there again. We, too, find ourselves in disbelief at this behavior which not only fails to meet the standards of our profession, violates the University’s Student Conduct Code (where violations can result in sanctions and corrective actions up to and including expulsion from the University), but also fails to meet a standard of basic decency.

The incident at R House bore similarity to events at the Spring Formal. At that event, where alcohol was also provided, the following occurred:

• Inappropriate and disrespectful treatment of their art and facility, including leaving drinks on art displays and touching the art
• Consumption of alcohol on museum property after the bar was shut down, despite being told by staff this was not permitted
• Failure to heed the direction of their staff when asked to vacate the premises
• Trespassing of areas clearly marked off limits
• Urination in a museum elevator

 

[xffan624]

In a school-wide email sent earlier today regarding the last two JHUSOM formals:
View attachment 363196

What's the purpose in posting this? Just to make JHU look bad? Seems like an internal school matter to deal with that doesn't need an SDN debate.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Welp. That is probably the end of free alcohol for this med school class.

 

[GoSpursGo]

What's the purpose in posting this? Just to make JHU look bad? Seems like an internal school matter to deal with that doesn't need an SDN debate.

I'm not sure why it's being posted, but to be clear it's the students' actions that make JHU look bad not the fact that they are being discussed 🙃

 

[xffan624]

I'm not sure why it's being posted, but to be clear it's the students' actions that make JHU look bad not the fact that they are being discussed 🙃

Of course. JHU hospital already has a poor enough reputation with the locals in the city. They definitely don't need this to get picked up by the local news on a slow news day. I just don't see the reason for airing a medical school student class's dirty laundry on a public website. It could mean no free alcohol for more than just this class.

 

[annoyedpsychiatrist]

Frustrated/anxious med students + alcohol= urine in an elevator

 

[DarkBluMage]

That’s wild

 

[LetsDoThisThrowaway]

inb4 elite med schools attract the elite, and typically coddled upper class students, who don't know how to act without parental supervision

 

[PathNeuroIMorFM]

What's the purpose in posting this? Just to make JHU look bad? Seems like an internal school matter to deal with that doesn't need an SDN debate.

Because some of us like the *drama*.

I'll admit, this was a fun read for me. I like to see what's going on at other schools and compare to my own.

 

[deleted1139416]

I don’t necessarily see anything wrong with posting this on here. JHU’s reputation is strong enough to withstand this. The only people who should be worried should be those who actually did this because that kind of behavior can get a license suspended or revoked, and going to JHU won’t help you if and when that happens.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Of course. JHU hospital already has a poor enough reputation with the locals in the city. They definitely don't need this to get picked up by the local news on a slow news day. I just don't see the reason for airing a medical school student class's dirty laundry on a public website. It could mean no free alcohol for more than just this class.

Yeah fair enough. This is probably posted by some self-loathing Hopkins student who is unhappy with where they decided to attend, or someone who has a personal vendetta against the class officers who organized the event. But regardless, again it comes down to the behavior and those who behaved this way. This kind of bad press usually comes out, because the urge to "name and shame" is strong.

Also, having been to Baltimore and actually having attended an event at the bar in question... I highly suspect this was going to come out regardless. It's a pretty prominent bar very close to the undergraduate campus, and the details are just too juicy to not get out.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Of course they'll blame admissions...

I'm surprised they had decided on serving alcohol if this happened at their spring event.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Slap on the wrist incoming

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Pretty a-hole behavior, especially talking about how little bartenders make…

 

[operaman]

I think this says a lot about the kind of students Hopkins is admitting. Clearly whatever metrics they value in their decision making don’t translate into basic human decency and decorum. For whatever reason they seem to be admitting people with minimal class and poor upbringing.

Maybe time to rethink that.

 

[deleted1139416]

I think this says a lot about the kind of students Hopkins is admitting. Clearly whatever metrics they value in their decision making don’t translate into basic human decency and decorum. For whatever reason they seem to be admitting people with minimal class and poor upbringing.

Maybe time to rethink that.

I have to respectfully disagree on that one - I go to a DO school, and even many people in my class have this kind of disrespectful behavior and attitude. Last month a classmate of mine got drunk and went to a group of women at a bar and said some misogynistic things that were very expulsion worthy. So I don't think it's a "Johns Hopkins" thing, it's a "med student" thing in general.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I have to respectfully disagree on that one - I go to a DO school, and even many people in my class have this kind of disrespectful behavior and attitude. Last month a classmate of mine got drunk and went to a group of women at a bar and said some misogynistic things that were very expulsion worthy. So I don't think it's a "Johns Hopkins" thing, it's a "med student" thing in general.

Lol. It’s not a med student thing. I am a med student and I don’t behave this way. It’s not anyone’s thing. It’s just bad behavior and poor upbringing.

 

[operaman]

I have to respectfully disagree on that one - I go to a DO school, and even many people in my class have this kind of disrespectful behavior and attitude. Last month a classmate of mine got drunk and went to a group of women at a bar and said some misogynistic things that were very expulsion worthy. So I don't think it's a "Johns Hopkins" thing, it's a "med student" thing in general.

I think there’s definitely a critical mass of lower class people in a class that create an atmosphere where behavior like this is accepted. It’s one thing to have a couple bad apples; that doesn’t usually get a whole school banned from a bar after 2 terrible experiences.

And even the bad apples - you have to wonder how they got through the door and why they’re allowed to stay. Personally that kind of bad behavior should warrant a firm professionalism violation and get someone hauled before some kind of student/faculty council and if not expelled, then put on notice that any additional issues will mean the end of their career.

 

[deleted1139416]

Lol. It’s not a med student thing. I am a med student and I don’t behave this way. It’s not anyone’s thing. It’s just bad behavior and poor upbringing.

I'm not saying all medical students do this. I'm just saying that this could have happened at any med school. Entitlement attitude is more prevalent in med students in general regardless of which med school they go to.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I think there’s definitely a critical mass of lower class people in a class that create an atmosphere where behavior like this is accepted. It’s one thing to have a couple bad apples; that doesn’t usually get a whole school banned from a bar after 2 terrible experiences.

And even the bad apples - you have to wonder how they got through the door and why they’re allowed to stay. Personally that kind of bad behavior should warrant a firm professionalism violation and get someone hauled before some kind of student/faculty council and if not expelled, then put on notice that any additional issues will mean the end of their career.

I am wondering the same. From the email, it looks like the behaviors were not isolated incidences, but rather a persistent pattern. Maybe they should de-focus a bit on the MCAT in their admissions? So those arrogant tool-ish people don’t make it through the gate.

 

[wholeheartedly]

how common are these med school type formals?

 

[DoctwoB]

I think this says a lot about the kind of students Hopkins is admitting. Clearly whatever metrics they value in their decision making don’t translate into basic human decency and decorum. For whatever reason they seem to be admitting people with minimal class and poor upbringing.

Maybe time to rethink that.

Make sure you use a step stool when dismounting from such a high horse.

Obviously this is inappropriate behavior and is not ok. Turns out drunk 22-24 year olds are idiots. I also recall my med school not getting invited back to multiple venues. Not saying its ok, just that it happens when you mix large groups of repressed young people and alcohol.

I recall a medschool event that had an open bar that turned into a cash bar at a certain hour. The drink line was so long people took to sneaking beers from the cooler to avoid waiting 20 minutes. Which of course goes from inappropriate with an open bar to theft at a cash bar. The class had to pitch in to make them whole and got a well deserved tongue lashing. Turns out many of these idiots are excellent doctors.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

how common are these med school type formals?

At my school, none. Usually events are catered and what not but I don’t think there has ever been alcohol at an on or off campus event

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Make sure you use a step stool when dismounting from such a high horse.

Obviously this is inappropriate behavior and is not ok. Turns out drunk 22-24 year olds are idiots. I also recall my med school not getting invited back to multiple venues. Not saying its ok, just that it happens when you mix large groups of repressed young people and alcohol.

I recall a medschool event that had an open bar that turned into a cash bar at a certain hour. The drink line was so long people took to sneaking beers from the cooler to avoid waiting 20 minutes. Which of course goes from inappropriate with an open bar to theft at a cash bar. The class had to pitch in to make them whole and got a well deserved tongue lashing.

Dumb behaviors are different from arrogant behaviors such as looking down upon someone because of their perceived social status and income status. That’s uncalled for drunk or sober.

 

[DarkBluMage]

I have to respectfully disagree on that one - I go to a DO school, and even many people in my class have this kind of disrespectful behavior and attitude. Last month a classmate of mine got drunk and went to a group of women at a bar and said some misogynistic things that were very expulsion worthy. So I don't think it's a "Johns Hopkins" thing, it's a "med student" thing in general.

“Med student” thing? Nah, speak for yourself and your classmates. My class has not conducted themselves in that kind of manner. Idk of anyone in my class that would either.

 

[Goro]

Welp. That is probably the end of free alcohol for this med school class.

My school learned long ago that at any school-sanctioned event, NO alcohol was allowed. And my kids didn't display this level of assholery, either

 

[ertapenemevelix]

I'm surprised they had decided on serving alcohol if this happened at their spring event.

Rumor has it that the "inappropriate and disrespectful treatment of their art and facility" involved students caught having sex in a public area...

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Rumor has it that the "inappropriate and disrespectful treatment of their art and facility" involved students caught having sex in a public area...

the plot thickens..

 

[Billiam95]

Rumor has it that the "inappropriate and disrespectful treatment of their art and facility" involved students caught having sex in a public area...

Just studying practical anatomy, smh

 

[M&L]

Frustrated/anxious med students + alcohol= urine in an elevator

I don’t know . I personally start text-fighting my ex Hahaga

 

[WhereMyLiberalsAt]

Inappropriate and disrespectful treatment of their art and facility, including leaving drinks on art displays and touching the art

For what’s considered modern art nowadays… It literally could’ve just been an honest mistake.

“I just got sh!? faced and vomited in that toilet over there”…

“You mean that priceless Duchamp sculpture fashioned in the early dada movement?!?”

 

[deleted1139416]

For what’s considered modern art nowadays… It literally could’ve just been an honest mistake.

“I just got sh!? faced and vomited in that toilet over there”…

“You mean that priceless Duchamp sculpture fashioned in the early dada movement?!?”

Damage done while being drunk is never an honest mistake. You are responsible for the mess you create while intoxicated.

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

And.... this is why I have never touched a drop of alcohol in my 26 years of existence.

 

[annoyedpsychiatrist]

I don’t know . I personally start text-fighting my ex Hahaga

always block your ex

 

[PathNeuroIMorFM]

And.... this is why I have never touched a drop of alcohol in my 26 years of existence.

This might come as a surprise to some, but alcohol doesn't magically turn you into an a**hole.

If you start fights and steal stuff when drunk, you're probably pretty insufferable when sober, too.

The only thing that really changes is your dancing abilities and your perceptions of your dancing abilities. Personally, I know I am a fantastic dancer when drunk, despite what my wife says.

 

[operaman]

My school had events with alcohol and we never had issues with this kind of behavior. I think the key was that our events all started and ended fairly early so there simply wasn’t time for things to get too out of hand.

 

[Lawpy]

I think this says a lot about the kind of students Hopkins is admitting. Clearly whatever metrics they value in their decision making don’t translate into basic human decency and decorum. For whatever reason they seem to be admitting people with minimal class and poor upbringing.

Maybe time to rethink that.

But the jerks who are getting interviews at places like JHU are smart enough to fake their personality for a day and get accepted

 

[sloop]

My school had events with alcohol and we never had issues with this kind of behavior. I think the key was that our events all started and ended fairly early so there simply wasn’t time for things to get too out of hand.

I think my school did have minor incidents that were similar to these, but nothing nearly as bad or to this scale. I think it was mainly people causing damage to the venue (can’t recall if it was supposedly intentional) and being loud jerks in surrounding residential neighborhoods.

I will say that there was one particular yearly med school party that was always great. It was beer/wine open bar all night the first year, but they switched to like two drink tickets per person after that due to some of the events described above, which sucked. That first year also had bacon-wrapped scallops which never made an appearance during the subsequent parties. I would argue that sucked even more than the drink limit.

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

This might come as a surprise to some, but alcohol doesn't magically turn you into an a**hole.

If you start fights and steal stuff when drunk, you're probably pretty insufferable when sober, too.

The only thing that really changes is your dancing abilities and your perceptions of your dancing abilities. Personally, I know I am a fantastic dancer when drunk, despite what my wife says.

I guess I was more worried about the cirrhosis and anterior vermian degeneration of the cerebellum.

 

[WhereMyLiberalsAt]

Damage done while being drunk is never an honest mistake. You are responsible for the mess you create while intoxicated.

I was meme’ing dude…. Chill.

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

always block your ex

Username checks out

 

[ortnakas]

Not to excuse their behavior, but…
if you take a bunch of high-intensity 22-year-olds (who probably partied less in college than other 20-somethings and know less about handling their liquor), put them under high pressure for a few months, then let them out and give them free booze, I feel like you can’t be completely shocked when things spin out of control.

It’s also not clear from this email if there was a drunken chaotic brawl or if a few very drunk kids did a few very stupid things. Neither’s okay, but one makes Hopkins looks bad and one could happen most anywhere.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Not to excuse their behavior, but…
if you take a bunch of high-intensity 22-year-olds (who probably partied less in college than other 20-somethings and know less about handling their liquor), put them under high pressure for a few months, then let them out and give them free booze, I feel like you can’t be completely shocked when things spin out of control.

It’s also not clear from this email if there was a drunken chaotic brawl or if a few very drunk kids did a few very stupid things. Neither’s okay, but one makes Hopkins looks bad and one could happen most anywhere.

Eh this is pretty par for the course for people at elite schools. I saw it many times in undergrad (Yale). People asking police officers/security if they “wanted to see the black card” (talking about American Express high/no limit)

It’s a very common path

Exeter -> Yale -> Hopkins/HMS/JP Morgan/Goldman Sachs -> plastics/derm/buy-side finance

Then the kids usually just repeat the cycle

 

[JP2740]

Of course. JHU hospital already has a poor enough reputation with the locals in the city. They definitely don't need this to get picked up by the local news on a slow news day. I just don't see the reason for airing a medical school student class's dirty laundry on a public website. It could mean no free alcohol for more than just this class.

Who gives a ****? It’s a discussion board

 

[Mr.Smile12]

When you get older, some faculty-only parties involve cigars. Almost as ironic as the smoking section at a conference with pulmonary experts (decades ago).

 

[TheRealBatmanMD]

Eh this is pretty par for the course for people at elite schools. I saw it many times in undergrad (Yale). People asking police officers/security if they “wanted to see the black card” (talking about American Express high/no limit)

It’s a very common path

Exeter -> Yale -> Hopkins/HMS/JP Morgan/Goldman Sachs -> plastics/derm/buy-side finance

Then the kids usually just repeat the cycle

Always wanted to go to Exeter or some other elite high school but my immigrant parents couldn't afford that nor would my overly attached mother let me go across the country. My high school was so crappy (PE instructors teaching AP Bio) that I basically had to teach myself everything which was painful at the time. However, now I can teach myself nearly everything which translates well to medical school. Thankfully, the two things rich folks can't buy are drive and intelligence.

 

[Hzreio]

What's the purpose in posting this? Just to make JHU look bad? Seems like an internal school matter to deal with that doesn't need an SDN debate.

Dude touch some grass lol it’s funny. What’s also funny is that JHU is supposed to consist of the “top” med students in the country yet they act like this

 

[A Salty Girl]

In a school-wide email sent earlier today regarding the last two JHUSOM formals:
View attachment 363196

Is there an update on this?

Any actions taken by the school you are aware of? Just so curious what they did about this (if anything) after the email was sent.

 

[BigPikachu]

1. You were sober and compos mentis prior to deciding to get intoxicated.
2. You are responsible for your behaviours and actions whilst intoxicated.
3. Intoxication from alcohol or drugs is not an excuse for bad behaviour.