Unprofessional; do you still have right to MD? Judge: yes

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So,
This case is based on hearsay? I'd like to see where the committee came up with these "patient complaints" or lying about interviewing a patient or whatever else. I think the DUI is obvious, but I wonder how much truth there is to all these other allegations on professionalism. The dance? Ha. Please. Go to any dance involving medical students/health professionals and tell me you don't see anything like that. I've been to mine so many times and the **** they do there is definitely "unprofessional" by school standards but that's the whole f.cking point of these things. That's why I refrain from getting HAM at these things. I don't disagree with what happens, but I find it a farcry to judge them in court/promotions committee.
Just like I find it laughable to bring these other things into the matter without questioning it. If there were repeat (I mean REPEAT) complaints from patients/staff/faculty about the same thing, then I'd agree. If people said he always came in hungover/vomiting/etc, I'd agree. But it looks like he got a DUI (unfortunately) and the school tried their best to use whatever to not give him an MD. Am I justifying all he's doing? No. I'm just skeptical about most of them as I'm sure the judge was.
Also - and I hate to say this - one DUI does not a bad MD make. Considering the criteria for a DUI - I can understand why the judge didn't really think this was the worst thing in the world. It's all how you present this case and I'm sure that most of it was bad presentation/preparation on the Universities part.
 
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Actually,
Case Western sounds like a crazy ex-gf...
 
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hell hate no fury like a med school administrator scorned

they are trying to deny a person his career for 1 DUI and hearsay

heaven help us all if a precedent like this is set
 
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.08 BAC can be reached in a lot of people after drinking 2 beers, and if you ignore the dui and look at the rest of his "offenses", he didnt really do anything crazy.

People are harping all over him, but you really gotta step back. I know quite a lot of people who are obnoxious drinkers. Its immature, but it certainly doesn't warrant this kind of uproar.
 
.08 BAC can be reached in a lot of people after drinking 2 beers, and if you ignore the dui and look at the rest of his "offenses", he didnt really do anything crazy.

People are harping all over him, but you really gotta step back. I know quite a lot of people who are obnoxious drinkers. Its immature, but it certainly doesn't warrant this kind of uproar.
There's a difference between being an obnoxious drunk and crashing into a telephone pole bc you're drunk. He could have easily killed someone.
 
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There's a difference between being an obnoxious drunk and crashing into a telephone pole bc you're drunk. He could have easily killed someone.

I didnt read the article, but if that was the case then yea he probably wont be a doctor
 
I didnt read the article, but if that was the case then yea he probably wont be a doctor
Well apparently the school was ordered to give him his MD degree by a court injunction. So it looks like they've done so, while still appealing the decision to a higher court.
 
I would argue this case is trying to break a precedent that already exists
Maybe. But they should have tried to organize their case better or at least have some stronger support for their justifications. This just reminds me of the major case with Michael Jackson which showed that it didn't matter how obvious the case seemed; if you do a **** job presenting it, then it can all fall apart. It's relatively easy to make a convincing case for any student going to court when they're being attacked. In the eyes of a person outside of the world of medicine, this just looks like a really bad attack by the school
a) it was too late
b) it's a student with no major prior offenses. The dui probably looked favorable in this regard with the right spin/right lawyer

There's a difference between being an obnoxious drunk and crashing into a telephone pole bc you're drunk. He could have easily killed someone.

I could argue it's irrelevant. Hell, I could make a case convincing a jury that this was a life-changing event and that he's trying to take the right steps towards avoiding it. That he was under a lot of emotional stress/etc and taking it out via other means like drinking but he's learned his ways. You use the right rhetoric and this situation actually looks good for the kid*.

*I do NOT condone drinking and driving for whatever reason. Despite the argument that can be made for 2 drinks = drunk when you feel fine, you should never do it. Which is why I live downtown 5 minutes away from everywhere requiring no driving. jk
 
That's the problem with the typical med school. They got beat, and now they're going to waste **** tons of money and time in court and soil their reputation even further. Like the average administration of a med school, they're immature control-obsessed people that can't stand the thought that what they do is incorrect. Instead of moving on, they're going to push and push and push and I still highly doubt anything else will change. As you go into a higher and higher actual court and public spotlight, it's just going to favor the student more. Especially due to the fact that the student initially won the case(no pun intended) and it's the medical school who is essentially trying to end the student's career. I bet their legal team is crying itself to sleep. If you are a medical school and ever trying to get a student for "unprofessionalism," you want it to stay in house as much as possible. As we elevate this concept legally, the whole abstract nature of this BS policy just gets contemplated more and more, and the judges see it for what it is. BS. I'd bet any amount of money that the appeal changes nothing.

Also, I always just love when things like this happen. ( sarcasm) The administrators act like the one incident they catch of this type of stuff is an outrage, when they could find 50 incidents of it every year. Like someone else said, those school dances and stuff, you could get 1/4 of the class on "unprofessionalism" on one night alone, easy. It's really annoying there is this all or nothing policy where the moment the issue is addressed, the student faces terrible punishment, yet 99 % never have any mention of it and just keep repeating the same behavior.

My last comment is also how this was postponed to the end of the student's career and made to screw them as much as possible basically. Gotta love that. Stuff like this is why we have " I hate medical school " threads.
 
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^ Stay tuned for breaking news about rising tuition :lol:
 
I think it's very unlikely an appeal court would side with Case Western if he has not done anything crazy again after they ordered them to give him his license
The medical school doesn't give a medical license. The state medical board does. In order to get a state medical license, you need to have proof of graduating from medical school. The court said the medical school can not hold back his degree and was court ordered to give him his MD degree as it was time-sensitive and needed in order to obtain a license to start internship.

Yes, I don't think it's likely an appeals court will overrule that decision, and I don't think Case will likely go too far up the chain on appeals due to time and expense. You can bet though Case Western medical students will pay the price bc of people like him and it was all bc Case was trying to not f' over his career. Other schools usually bring down the hammer, with Case, they were way too nice and he took advantage of it.
 
The medical school doesn't give a medical license. The state medical board does. In order to get a state medical license, you need to have proof of graduating from medical school. The court said the medical school can not hold back his degree and was court ordered to give him his MD degree as it was time-sensitive and needed in order to obtain a license to start internship.

Yes, I don't think it's likely an appeals court will overrule that decision, and I don't think Case will likely go too far up the chain on appeals due to time and expense. You can bet though Case Western medical students will pay the price bc of people like him and it was all bc Case was trying to not f' over his career. Other schools usually bring down the hammer, with Case, they were way too nice and he took advantage of it.
I meant to say the degree....
 
(this didn't actually happen) on news 8 tonight case medical school raises tuition 15 % to pay for extraordinary legal bills. I hope they elevate it to the supreme court as it's just gonna get costlier and costlier and each higher level will side with them less and less.
 
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jumping out of a moving taxi to avoid fare, give that man a nobel prize
 
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