Okay people, I need you help. I am writing a character profile for an upperdivision english class. I've decided to write it about my boss, a pharmacist, as an unsung hero. I want to write about the lack of respect and notoriety surrounding pharmacy, especially compared to an MD, despite the education and knowledge a pharmacist possesses. Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas about this topic? I want to portray the pharmacist as an important part of the community. Does anyone have some interesting stories about pharmacy where a pharmacist has helped another. Thanks.
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Unsung Hero
- Thread starter Redrum16
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Pharmacists certainly are a very important member of the community, for example, they serve as a final saftey check between the physician and the patient in that they must catch any potential medication errors. While uncommon, at least in my experience, pharmacists can be held legally responsible for missing potential errors. Another vital function is in patient counseling. Frequently, physicians are either too busy, aren't informed by the patient, or just don't care to talk to the patient about his/her other medications. Pharmacists instruct patients about any potential interactions, proper usage, side effects, etc. Furthermore, patients often will much rather come to the pharmacy to inquire about a rash, fever, etc. than schedule a doctor's appointment, and pharmacists play an important role in this aspect.
One area you didn't specifically mention were emergin roles of pharmacists today, such as drug utilization reviews, immunizations, or teaching roles. For example, some pharmacists are attempting to recieve insurance reimbursement for teaching sessions. (Holding a class teaching seniors how to manage their diabetes, BP, teaching strategies to remember to take their medications, etc.)
It won't be hard to come up with many examples as to how the pharmacist is an important part of the community.
Jason
PS Be careful that, in your attempt to bring light to the indespensible role of pharmacists, you don't try to downplay the role of physicians. Pharmacists don't recieve the same respect as MDs because they don't go through NEARLY what physicians have to. The training physicians recieve is truly unbelievable (I have experience with BOTH), and they actually aren't paid or appreciated, for their sacrifices or training, nearly what they are worth.
One area you didn't specifically mention were emergin roles of pharmacists today, such as drug utilization reviews, immunizations, or teaching roles. For example, some pharmacists are attempting to recieve insurance reimbursement for teaching sessions. (Holding a class teaching seniors how to manage their diabetes, BP, teaching strategies to remember to take their medications, etc.)
It won't be hard to come up with many examples as to how the pharmacist is an important part of the community.
Jason
PS Be careful that, in your attempt to bring light to the indespensible role of pharmacists, you don't try to downplay the role of physicians. Pharmacists don't recieve the same respect as MDs because they don't go through NEARLY what physicians have to. The training physicians recieve is truly unbelievable (I have experience with BOTH), and they actually aren't paid or appreciated, for their sacrifices or training, nearly what they are worth.
Physicians are regarded as many as actual heroes, whether they deserve it or not. Leave your "physician mentality" on the physicians board. Considering what more pharmacy schools are looking for in a candidate these days (3.6+, 90%+ PCAT, BS degree), it's not like we're wann-be physicanis. Pharmacists are drug specialists and physicians have another specialty all together. Do I want to be a "physician"? no. Could I be? quite possibly.
Jd
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Thanks for the ideas. Also, I heard pharmacists can decide whether to dispense or deny access to medicinal marijuana and ru486 (given a prescription). Is this true? What other possible interventions does a pharmacist have the legal ability to make?
I don't know about the medical marijuana, but in some states (can't think of them off of the top of my head) pharmacists can indeed dispense the morning after pill w/o a prescription (please note, I don't think they can dispense RU486). Also, in some states, pharmacists have limited prescription rights and can prescribe to patients a limited number of medications.
One more thing that you could mention. Each year, pharmacists are ranked #1 (or very close to it) in the most trusted profession polls, ahead of clergy, physicians, and sometimes nurses!
Jdpharmd wrote:
>Physicians are regarded as many as actual heroes, whether they deserve it or not. Leave your "physician mentality" on the physicians board. Considering what more pharmacy schools are looking for in a candidate these days (3.6+, 90%+ PCAT, BS degree), it's not like we're wann-be physicanis. Pharmacists are drug specialists and physicians have another specialty all together. Do I want to be a "physician"? no. Could I be? quite possibly.
Easy there, tiger. What is a "physician mentality?" Who on earth said that pharmacists are "wann-be" physicians? I know I certainly did not. I merely commented on the fact as to why physicians generally recieve more respect and notoriety than pharmacists; it is a fact the training physicians recieve is much, much more rigorous, period. I have first hand experience with both. Pleae re-read my post and find where I said that pharmacists wanted to be physicians or taht pharmacy applicants are sub-par, or you couldn't be an MD if you wanted to. I think that someone grossly over reacted to my post and assumed things that were never stated or implied.
One more thing that you could mention. Each year, pharmacists are ranked #1 (or very close to it) in the most trusted profession polls, ahead of clergy, physicians, and sometimes nurses!
Jdpharmd wrote:
>Physicians are regarded as many as actual heroes, whether they deserve it or not. Leave your "physician mentality" on the physicians board. Considering what more pharmacy schools are looking for in a candidate these days (3.6+, 90%+ PCAT, BS degree), it's not like we're wann-be physicanis. Pharmacists are drug specialists and physicians have another specialty all together. Do I want to be a "physician"? no. Could I be? quite possibly.
Easy there, tiger. What is a "physician mentality?" Who on earth said that pharmacists are "wann-be" physicians? I know I certainly did not. I merely commented on the fact as to why physicians generally recieve more respect and notoriety than pharmacists; it is a fact the training physicians recieve is much, much more rigorous, period. I have first hand experience with both. Pleae re-read my post and find where I said that pharmacists wanted to be physicians or taht pharmacy applicants are sub-par, or you couldn't be an MD if you wanted to. I think that someone grossly over reacted to my post and assumed things that were never stated or implied.
Actually, I don't think Redrum was referring to prescription priveleges. He was referring to a person who walks into a pharmacy and already has a prescription for RU-486 or medicinal marijuana and the pharmacist refuses to fill the prescription on moral grounds.
I think what got jdpharmd's ire up was the part where you said, "physicians aren't appreciated." True or not, I doubt anyone here is going to buy that line. (Personally, I think the whole idea of "who's less appreciated" is just a gigantic pissing contest anyway and I'm not going to touch it with a 10 foot pole.)
OK, now back to the original topic. 🙂 Redrum, you might also point out in your paper that most people who use herbal remedies are not going to get a prescription for them from a doctor; they'll buy them OTC in a pharmacy. If they want in-depth information about the herbal remedy, who's the most convienent source of information? The pharmacist.
Wow. I get to play arbitrator. JD, I don't think he was trying to take a pot-shot at pharmacists, but rather to underscore the 'rigorous nature' of being a physician particularly training to be a physician.
LSUMed, I have not experienced either, but I have been surrounded for many years by both from working in a research lab at UCSF. Principally, the work load is more rigorous because the hours are much worse. Depth and breadth of knowledge is another matter entirely, I would put a pharmacist up against any physician on 'health science jeopardy' any day. I question whether they are underappreciated. You may be right, but they're certainly glorified in the public eye. That was the major complaint from the clinical fellow in our lab, he would often gripe about how much harder he thought he worked than people in silicon valley making twice as much ec for the fact that he was offered more than a million dollars to join a clinic in TX. The point is he felt he deserved more credit for the 80-90 hr work weeks he puts in. Does he deserve it? Dunno. But, we all have to be careful about falling into the 'i'm not appreciated enough for my service' mentality. I personally think seeing-eye dogs do more for people than just about any human being does. don't think they get any t.v. shows on prime time.
LSUMed, I have not experienced either, but I have been surrounded for many years by both from working in a research lab at UCSF. Principally, the work load is more rigorous because the hours are much worse. Depth and breadth of knowledge is another matter entirely, I would put a pharmacist up against any physician on 'health science jeopardy' any day. I question whether they are underappreciated. You may be right, but they're certainly glorified in the public eye. That was the major complaint from the clinical fellow in our lab, he would often gripe about how much harder he thought he worked than people in silicon valley making twice as much ec for the fact that he was offered more than a million dollars to join a clinic in TX. The point is he felt he deserved more credit for the 80-90 hr work weeks he puts in. Does he deserve it? Dunno. But, we all have to be careful about falling into the 'i'm not appreciated enough for my service' mentality. I personally think seeing-eye dogs do more for people than just about any human being does. don't think they get any t.v. shows on prime time.
Oh, I see. Pharmacists have the right to refuse filling of any medication. A pharmacist who views oral contraceptives as morally wrong has the right to refuse filling a script for them.
>I think what got jdpharmd's ire up was the part where you said, "physicians aren't appreciated." True or not, I doubt anyone here is going to buy that line. (Personally, I think the whole idea of "who's less appreciated" is just a gigantic pissing contest anyway and I'm not going to touch it with a 10 foot pole.)
I never said taht physicians weren't appreciated. I stated that they arent "paid or appreciated, for their sacrifices or training, nearly what they are worth." I stand by that. Medical school is hell, residency training has had physicians (up until this year) work up to 120 hours a week for around minimum wage for up to 7 years, and private practice can have physicians work unbelieveable hours. Yes, physicians have it much worse and sacrifice much, much more than many people realize. I also never said that pharmacists were appreciated as much as they should.
>Depth and breadth of knowledge is another matter entirely, I would put a pharmacist up against any physician on 'health science jeopardy' any day.
I don't know what health science jeopardy is, but my feeling is that you have been around some crappy phyisicians. We'll have to strongly disagree here. Among the many, many practicing physicians and pharmacists I have been exposed to, there has been a huge gap in knowledge between the two. By virtue of medical school alone, the depth and breadth of training is much, much more intense than pharmacy school, period, and this is not even considering residency.
>I think what got jdpharmd's ire up was the part where you said, "physicians aren't appreciated." True or not, I doubt anyone here is going to buy that line. (Personally, I think the whole idea of "who's less appreciated" is just a gigantic pissing contest anyway and I'm not going to touch it with a 10 foot pole.)
I never said taht physicians weren't appreciated. I stated that they arent "paid or appreciated, for their sacrifices or training, nearly what they are worth." I stand by that. Medical school is hell, residency training has had physicians (up until this year) work up to 120 hours a week for around minimum wage for up to 7 years, and private practice can have physicians work unbelieveable hours. Yes, physicians have it much worse and sacrifice much, much more than many people realize. I also never said that pharmacists were appreciated as much as they should.
>Depth and breadth of knowledge is another matter entirely, I would put a pharmacist up against any physician on 'health science jeopardy' any day.
I don't know what health science jeopardy is, but my feeling is that you have been around some crappy phyisicians. We'll have to strongly disagree here. Among the many, many practicing physicians and pharmacists I have been exposed to, there has been a huge gap in knowledge between the two. By virtue of medical school alone, the depth and breadth of training is much, much more intense than pharmacy school, period, and this is not even considering residency.
What are some examples of herbal remedies that people commonly take?
St. Johns Wort, Kava kava, stuff like you'd find in the vitamin aisle or at GNC.
As far as our whole physician vs pharmacist deal, who cares.. Like I had posted earlier, we both have seperate roles in the medical community, but they are highly dependant on each other (and each other's competance). Neither can be classified as "smarter", but everyone has their own specailties. A pharmacist would find himself out of place in surgery, just as an MD would in a R&D drug lab or a chemo prep pharmacy. It was a great post, but I thought that it was unnecessary to end it with the plug for physicans. Are they writing the paper on physicians? Should he also not forget to mention the work of EMT workers, nurses, or perhaps the fireman who extracted a patient from a burning vehicle? I was also RIGHT in the middle of a biochemistry experiment at the time. I was doing some work with alcohol dehydrogenase, while working with ethanol in very high quantities, in vivo. After all, it's graduation weekend here!
Jd
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hmm this thread is getting heated so I am going to join,
first I respect the fact physicicans are more highly trained in disease state, diagnostics, etc. however a physician without a residency does not know more about drug or drug therapy than a practicing pharmacist, many times I have been astounded at the the lack of knowledge some practicing physicians who have finished their residency have had about drug therapy, it is pretty distressing when the person deciding the perscription doesn't know what CYP450 is, I mean I am going on my rotations tomorrow and I've know about CYP450 since my first professional year of pharmacy school,
I think generally physician should acknowledge when they are unfamiliar with a certain area and allow other healthcare professionals to guide patient care in an unfamiliar area.
first I respect the fact physicicans are more highly trained in disease state, diagnostics, etc. however a physician without a residency does not know more about drug or drug therapy than a practicing pharmacist, many times I have been astounded at the the lack of knowledge some practicing physicians who have finished their residency have had about drug therapy, it is pretty distressing when the person deciding the perscription doesn't know what CYP450 is, I mean I am going on my rotations tomorrow and I've know about CYP450 since my first professional year of pharmacy school,
I think generally physician should acknowledge when they are unfamiliar with a certain area and allow other healthcare professionals to guide patient care in an unfamiliar area.
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I wouldn't be too quick to jump on LSUMED for his comment. I've been reading his posts in here for a quite a while and he's always seemed to be a staunch supporter of the role of pharmacists in healthcare. I don't want to speak for someone else, but I took his point to mean that explaining the importance of pharmacists should not be done at the expense of insulting the position of physicians, not that physicians are somehow "better" than any other healthcare professional.
Thank you, brill. That was indeed the point of my post. Pharmacists certainly are a vital member of the healthcare team, a posisiton that will only become stronger as the growing pains of the transition to pharmd from BS is over.
Please, save your "periods" for people who haven't worked at UCSF.
Yeah, those "crappy physicians" at UCSF in my old lab. Sorry LSUMed, but you're out of touch. I routinely knew in greater detail aspects of disease state and histological science than the two MDs in my lab, and I've only been through undergrad. When i would inquire why they didn't know they would tell me the truth, because that wasn't there area of specialization. You must be surrounded by those physicians that don't call into Walgreens pharmacy because we have to call physicians several times each day to correct them on mistakes they make in ordering prescriptions. The two MDs in my lab would even concede that they had less knowledge than a number of other participants in health care, most abundantly the PhD candidates and post-docs who often work longer hours for even less pay than MD residents.
Please don't sit here and preach to me about this greater training and some concomitant greater respect. I work in the Mission district of SF, pretty much ghetto, with not much english spoken. These people can't afford doctor's visits, who can they come to for free: the staff pharmacist. Ask them who plays a more vital role. Ask them who they need in a crunch.
If respect is your motivation then fine so be it. But, don't try and tell me why i need to have more for physicians. Not when you've seen what i've seen. Period.
I'm not going to go through any in-depth word analysis here, but when you say: "I never said taht physicians weren't appreciated. I stated that they arent "paid or appreciated, for their sacrifices or training, nearly what they are worth." " don't you think that they sound strikingly similar? I also haven't met too many people who don't appreciate a good doctor. When you say that they're not paid enough, and then mention a 7 year residency (which would be the longest possible, I believe, and most likely for a surgeon or similar specialty) I am just curious what you think "enough" is. Is $100k/year enough? $300k? Half a million dollars? What is the average income of, say, a neurosurgeon? I honestly don't know.
If I found out that my doctor was making minimum wage for 7 years, I don't think that I'd go to her anymore. She seems to be able to afford to live quite comfortably and drive a BMW to work every day. She is not finished with her residency (it's a teaching hosptal). What are 7th year residents paid? $5.50/hr?
As far as hours go, you choose your profession as well as your residency. If you want to be a doctor, you need to make some sacrifices early on. But tell me what the hours are at your local doctor's office are. Most are closed Saturday and Sunday, just about every holiday you can think of (including religious holidays such as good friday), some are close early on friday, and many close the entire office for an hour at lunch and then are gone by 5pm the days that they are open. And guess what? You get to choose that too!
By the way, pharmacists can do a residency too, and frequently enter the PharmD program with a BS in a related field (like most med students).
I'm not even going to get into the last part of your post as much as I feel obligated to, because it's just silly. A doctor can sit on his ass just as easily as a pharmacist can. It's all about what you choose to do, and there is no way for anyone to know or even assume that "By virtue of medical school alone, the depth and breadth of training is much, much more intense than pharmacy school, period, and this is not even considering residency." Considering that many medical students share classes with pharmacy students and vice versa, I can't see how two students in the same class could have such a different experience, unless, of course, it's psychosomatic.
Jd
The CYP450 unfamiliarity is funny (and very scary) but I'd have to say that my personal favorite are the doctors who write prescriptions for vicodin or tylenol #3 in high doses for long time intervals and basically try to kill the patient with an acetaminophen overdose. Of course, if the patient has poor liver function it's even worse. Then when you call the prescribing physician and explain that it's a problem and the physician doesn't understand why, it just can't get any more (potentially) dangerous. I don't know how many times this has happened while I was working, but maybe if I had a doctor to count them for me, I could figure it out...
Jd
(If anyone is curious, they should look into acetaminophen poisoning, because it's a horrible way to die. Strangely, it seems to be a popular way to commit suicide in Europe, where firearms are hard to come by.)
>If I found out that my doctor was making minimum wage for 7 years, I don't think that I'd go to her anymore. She seems to be able to afford to live quite comfortably and drive a BMW to work every day. She is not finished with her residency (it's a teaching hosptal). What are 7th year residents paid? $5.50/hr?
I'm confused. Is your doctor a resident? Why would you stop seeing her if she doesn't make much money. Ok up until this year many surgery residents average around 100 hours a week. Assuming time and a half, the average per hour pay acutally comes out less than 5.50. Those entering their 7th year of training are likely fellows and would make around$50000 a year. Keep in mind that 7 years is NOT the longest one can train. I'd say up to around 10 years is about the longest one could expect a training period to last in certain fields.
> and there is no way for anyone to know or even assume that "By virtue of medical school alone, the depth and breadth of training is much, much more intense than pharmacy school, period, and this is not even considering residency." Considering that many medical students share classes with pharmacy students and vice versa, I can't see how two students in the same class could have such a different experience, unless, of course, it's psychosomatic.
Pharmacy and medical school are very, very different. Medical school is much more intense. The classes taht the two share, when they do indeed share them, are not the ones that are so brutal. You can make fun of my statement all you want and call it
"silly," but the fact that pharmacy students are expected to work during their schooling, while I have heard of med students being prohibited from working says something. If you want to think that the two are equally as difficult or thorough, then do so, but I know that there have been several classes in med school that I had taken in pharmacy school. In each case, I covered in a month in med school what we covered in a semester in pharmacy school. I had more than one department head when I was in pharmacy school tell me it would be that way.
I don't understand why you are so angry or defensive, as the point of my original post was not to downplay the role of ANY field at the expense of another. Read my posts here. I don't know if there are many people as firm proponents of the role of a better, integrated healthcare system with a greater role for pharmacists.
Jason
I'm confused. Is your doctor a resident? Why would you stop seeing her if she doesn't make much money. Ok up until this year many surgery residents average around 100 hours a week. Assuming time and a half, the average per hour pay acutally comes out less than 5.50. Those entering their 7th year of training are likely fellows and would make around$50000 a year. Keep in mind that 7 years is NOT the longest one can train. I'd say up to around 10 years is about the longest one could expect a training period to last in certain fields.
> and there is no way for anyone to know or even assume that "By virtue of medical school alone, the depth and breadth of training is much, much more intense than pharmacy school, period, and this is not even considering residency." Considering that many medical students share classes with pharmacy students and vice versa, I can't see how two students in the same class could have such a different experience, unless, of course, it's psychosomatic.
Pharmacy and medical school are very, very different. Medical school is much more intense. The classes taht the two share, when they do indeed share them, are not the ones that are so brutal. You can make fun of my statement all you want and call it
"silly," but the fact that pharmacy students are expected to work during their schooling, while I have heard of med students being prohibited from working says something. If you want to think that the two are equally as difficult or thorough, then do so, but I know that there have been several classes in med school that I had taken in pharmacy school. In each case, I covered in a month in med school what we covered in a semester in pharmacy school. I had more than one department head when I was in pharmacy school tell me it would be that way.
I don't understand why you are so angry or defensive, as the point of my original post was not to downplay the role of ANY field at the expense of another. Read my posts here. I don't know if there are many people as firm proponents of the role of a better, integrated healthcare system with a greater role for pharmacists.
Jason
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I'm sure medical school is very intense and time consuming. However, the physicians I have talked with have all stated that their most difficult courses were either pharmacology or medicinal chemistry. Then again, they hated chemistry. Some students I graduated with decided on medical school over pharmacy school, because they wouldn't have as much chemistry. They might be in for a surprise, but they only know that on an undergraduate level that biology courses were way, way easier than chemistry courses.
As for working through school, UF advised their pharmacy students not to work while going to school, if they hoped to pass all their classes. They do have practicums every week, where they are paired with a medical student. They work as a team and are assigned patients at the teaching hospital. This way, the medical students learn to respect the pharmacy students and rely on their drug knowledge.
Also, many courses at UF are full semester courses that are taught in 6 weeks, then that time slot is filled with another class. This is the same as medical school, I believe.
I don't think that anyone should make sweeping generalizations about medical school or pharmacy school. All schools are slightly different from each other.
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The head pharmacist at my work, my boss, gets many Christmas presents each year from several patients who have credited him for either saving their life, their marriage, etc.+.
Some highlights: He intervened during a drug overdose suicide attempt, & calmed down an angry man on the phone who was about to kill his wife during a heated domestic violence episode.
My boss says that his job is not just about dispensing drugs and advice, but actually listening to people who need to talk. Sometimes, likens himself to the smiling and reticent bar-tender behind the counter that operates during the day.
Perhaps if there was at least one soap opera about pharmacists, then maybe pharmers would appeal to the masses in a similar glamourous as doctors nad lawyers do. There are many shows about doctors and lawyers, some on firefighters, cops, and teachers, etc.
What about pharmacists? Where the heck are the pharmacists?!!!?!? There's a lot of material for some serious tv drama here.😛
Wow. That is mighty impressive. I'd a been freakin'.
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Is it possible that the pharmacy school you attended was not as intense as other pharmacy schools?
USCD's pharmacy and medical students take 2 years of classes together. In addition, they also work together during their 4th year rotation.
It was fairly intense and had an unbelievably strong medicinal chemistry department. (The head was a guy who was the best teacher I have ever had and the most knowledgeable concerning any subject I have ever seen, ever.) I had a very strong chemistry background and was able to conceptualize OMC and pharmacology. The 4 OMCs were the most enjoyable classes I have ever taken; it always bewildered me whenever the prof. would say "if you study 3 hours for every hour of lecture, then I can guarantee you at least a C." I always studied either the night before or the day of, but I guess that's just me. I was told at ULM the pass rate for the boards the first time taking them was around 96%, compared to way less than 50% at the other pharmacy school. To each his own...
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By ULM, do you mean the University of Louisiana at Monroe?
They are one of my customers. I wrote their software for handling all their tickets for athletic events. I've only been up there once. Believe me, once was more than enough. Not much excitement in Monroe.
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According to the WSU's website, the National passing rate is 93.8%. I can't confirm ULM's passing rate.
http://www.pharmacy.wsu.edu/currentstudents/examresults.html
Wow. The national pass rate is that high? Interesting.
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I was also surprise. However, the passing rate on the California pharmacy board is only 59.8% for PharmD, while 28% for BS degree.
http://www.pharmacy.ca.gov/exam_stats_02_jun.htm
http://www.pharmacy.ca.gov/exam_stats_02_jun.htm
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Getting back to the original question...
RPh's are "unsung" heroes because we frequently "catch" whatever falls through the cracks; be it something the pt. could not talk to the doctor about because he/she was pressed for time or because the pt. knew the pharmacist would be able to offer up an answer. (please don't flame me)
I think of myself as a jack-of-all trades, master of none. I have "diagnosed" (by this I mean, recognized signs/symptoms and sent the patient to an MD/DO or emergency room) viral meningitis, fifth disease, various dermatological conditions, angina, poisoning, etc. I am also a pseudo-psychologist, listening to folks' concerns and referring them to the proper professionals if necessary.
Pharmacists are trusted by the public simply because we are more accessible and have good training. I am constantly amazed when people bring me a dozen roses for recommending a good OTC pain-killer or the one guy who offered me a Harley for performing CPR on his wife, who suffered a heart attack in my store.
Just my 2 cents---loo
RPh's are "unsung" heroes because we frequently "catch" whatever falls through the cracks; be it something the pt. could not talk to the doctor about because he/she was pressed for time or because the pt. knew the pharmacist would be able to offer up an answer. (please don't flame me)
I think of myself as a jack-of-all trades, master of none. I have "diagnosed" (by this I mean, recognized signs/symptoms and sent the patient to an MD/DO or emergency room) viral meningitis, fifth disease, various dermatological conditions, angina, poisoning, etc. I am also a pseudo-psychologist, listening to folks' concerns and referring them to the proper professionals if necessary.
Pharmacists are trusted by the public simply because we are more accessible and have good training. I am constantly amazed when people bring me a dozen roses for recommending a good OTC pain-killer or the one guy who offered me a Harley for performing CPR on his wife, who suffered a heart attack in my store.
Just my 2 cents---loo
Hey everyone, I didn't mean to start so much crap in the forum. My question was meant to praise pharmacists, not to degrade other fields. I have a lot of respect for all divisions of the medical field. But after all the strife (on here anyways), my english paper's done. Thanks for all your help guys.
Why not post it or portions of it? I'm everyone would enjoy it, as we all agree that pharmacists truly are an important member of the healthcare team and likely all have stories about a special pharmacist or two who made us want to go into pharmacy in the first place.
I um...didn't see this post, and I will respond to it.
Yeah, those "crappy physicians" at UCSF in my old lab.
>Sorry LSUMed, but you're out of touch.
<looks around wondering where that came from> Huh? How on earth am I out of touch? I have attended pharmacy school and am currently in medical school. I have published research, worked in a pharmacy for a year and a half, and have a fair amount of experience in the medical and surgical environment. Have you started pharmacy school yet? I am actually wondering if the two people who have seemed so hostile towards me actually have started their pharmacy education. Out of touch...that's a new one.
>I routinely knew in greater detail aspects of disease state and histological science than the two MDs in my lab, and I've only been through undergrad. When i would inquire why they didn't know they would tell me the truth, because that wasn't there area of specialization.
I have absolutely no doubt that most college students who have just taken histology know more about it than physicians (except pathologists, who are histology gurus). The reason, well the MDs said it, it's not their area of specialization, big deal. It's like saying, if you don't know the difference between a T1 and T2 weighted MRI image's relaxation time then you are not meant to be a pharmacist.
>You must be surrounded by those physicians that don't call into Walgreens pharmacy because we have to call physicians several times each day to correct them on mistakes they make in ordering prescriptions.
We had physicians call in to Eckerds and ask questions about certain meds, such as what 5 things are in _____cough syrup. Of course physicians make mistakes, pharmacists make mistakes, we all make mistakes. What's your point?
>The two MDs in my lab would even concede that they had less knowledge than a number of other participants in health care, most abundantly the PhD candidates and post-docs who often work longer hours for even less pay than MD residents.
Again, What's your point? Of course PhDs have more knowledge in certain areas. There would be no point of a dual degree program if they didn't. Just because a PhD has more knowlede of the 25 subunits that make up an enzyme than either a pharmacist of MD, it doesn't reflect negatively on either the MD or pharmacist.
>Please don't sit here and preach to me about this greater training and some concomitant greater respect.
Yes, physicians have greater training. They spend 4 years in medical school and then 3-7 or more years in training. I'm sorry, but they are trained longer and more intensely (if by virtue of hours worked alone) than pharmacists. There is a reason why a general surgery residency is 5 years and 80-100 hours a week; it is nessecary to train for that long after finishing a 4 year medical program. I don't know why you get angry or defensive about this. It is a fact. MDs are trained longer and more intensely than pharmacists. If I am wrong and most pharmacists are trained this long and intensely, please fill us all in.
>I work in the Mission district of SF, pretty much ghetto, with not much english spoken. These people can't afford doctor's visits, who can they come to for free: the staff pharmacist. Ask them who plays a more vital role. Ask them who they need in a crunch.
Actually, if you would reread my first post, I basically said precisely what you just said. Pharmacists are very often a first line screening healthcare agent.
>If respect is your motivation then fine so be it.
Whoa! Where the hell did I ever say respect was my motivation? Don't even begin to assume why I am where I am. I don't give a damn about respect. I have many reasons for being here, none of them respect. One is the fact that I absolutely love pharmacology and wanted a job where I could call the shots and use my pharmacologic knowledge on a daily basis and change people's lives.
>But, don't try and tell me why i need to have more for physicians. Not when you've seen what i've seen. Period.
Please show me where I tried to tell you that you needed to have more respect for physicians. Go ahead, I'll wait. Hmmm...can't find it can you? I never said you should do anything. Please quit putting words in my mouth. What I do find interesting is your hostile attitude towards MDs. You are welcome say what you want and think what you want; however, whenever you start working, especially in a clinical setting, a lack of respect and hostile attitude will not make a pharmacist's life easy. The MD doesn't have to listen to the pharmacist and likely won't if the pharmacist has no respect for him. I don't understand the hostility that you and a few others (who haven't even STARTED pharmacy school display). I sincerely hope that the role of pharmacists expands, and I actually have thought of MANY, MANY ways I will incorporate them into my practice (REREAD THIS STATMENT). I do know if there is such open hostility for those who haven't even begun their pharmacy training, things will be MUCH more difficult for those people when they are clinical pharmacists trying to expand their roles and work concomanently with physicians.
Jason
Yeah, those "crappy physicians" at UCSF in my old lab.
>Sorry LSUMed, but you're out of touch.
<looks around wondering where that came from> Huh? How on earth am I out of touch? I have attended pharmacy school and am currently in medical school. I have published research, worked in a pharmacy for a year and a half, and have a fair amount of experience in the medical and surgical environment. Have you started pharmacy school yet? I am actually wondering if the two people who have seemed so hostile towards me actually have started their pharmacy education. Out of touch...that's a new one.
>I routinely knew in greater detail aspects of disease state and histological science than the two MDs in my lab, and I've only been through undergrad. When i would inquire why they didn't know they would tell me the truth, because that wasn't there area of specialization.
I have absolutely no doubt that most college students who have just taken histology know more about it than physicians (except pathologists, who are histology gurus). The reason, well the MDs said it, it's not their area of specialization, big deal. It's like saying, if you don't know the difference between a T1 and T2 weighted MRI image's relaxation time then you are not meant to be a pharmacist.
>You must be surrounded by those physicians that don't call into Walgreens pharmacy because we have to call physicians several times each day to correct them on mistakes they make in ordering prescriptions.
We had physicians call in to Eckerds and ask questions about certain meds, such as what 5 things are in _____cough syrup. Of course physicians make mistakes, pharmacists make mistakes, we all make mistakes. What's your point?
>The two MDs in my lab would even concede that they had less knowledge than a number of other participants in health care, most abundantly the PhD candidates and post-docs who often work longer hours for even less pay than MD residents.
Again, What's your point? Of course PhDs have more knowledge in certain areas. There would be no point of a dual degree program if they didn't. Just because a PhD has more knowlede of the 25 subunits that make up an enzyme than either a pharmacist of MD, it doesn't reflect negatively on either the MD or pharmacist.
>Please don't sit here and preach to me about this greater training and some concomitant greater respect.
Yes, physicians have greater training. They spend 4 years in medical school and then 3-7 or more years in training. I'm sorry, but they are trained longer and more intensely (if by virtue of hours worked alone) than pharmacists. There is a reason why a general surgery residency is 5 years and 80-100 hours a week; it is nessecary to train for that long after finishing a 4 year medical program. I don't know why you get angry or defensive about this. It is a fact. MDs are trained longer and more intensely than pharmacists. If I am wrong and most pharmacists are trained this long and intensely, please fill us all in.
>I work in the Mission district of SF, pretty much ghetto, with not much english spoken. These people can't afford doctor's visits, who can they come to for free: the staff pharmacist. Ask them who plays a more vital role. Ask them who they need in a crunch.
Actually, if you would reread my first post, I basically said precisely what you just said. Pharmacists are very often a first line screening healthcare agent.
>If respect is your motivation then fine so be it.
Whoa! Where the hell did I ever say respect was my motivation? Don't even begin to assume why I am where I am. I don't give a damn about respect. I have many reasons for being here, none of them respect. One is the fact that I absolutely love pharmacology and wanted a job where I could call the shots and use my pharmacologic knowledge on a daily basis and change people's lives.
>But, don't try and tell me why i need to have more for physicians. Not when you've seen what i've seen. Period.
Please show me where I tried to tell you that you needed to have more respect for physicians. Go ahead, I'll wait. Hmmm...can't find it can you? I never said you should do anything. Please quit putting words in my mouth. What I do find interesting is your hostile attitude towards MDs. You are welcome say what you want and think what you want; however, whenever you start working, especially in a clinical setting, a lack of respect and hostile attitude will not make a pharmacist's life easy. The MD doesn't have to listen to the pharmacist and likely won't if the pharmacist has no respect for him. I don't understand the hostility that you and a few others (who haven't even STARTED pharmacy school display). I sincerely hope that the role of pharmacists expands, and I actually have thought of MANY, MANY ways I will incorporate them into my practice (REREAD THIS STATMENT). I do know if there is such open hostility for those who haven't even begun their pharmacy training, things will be MUCH more difficult for those people when they are clinical pharmacists trying to expand their roles and work concomanently with physicians.
Jason
Alright alright. I'm not trying to fight about this.
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yeah maybe the debate is pretty much over, i agree there were some valid points but let's not try to put medicine down anymore, they do have a more stringent training, and in some instance pharmacist may know more about drug therapy so i think everyone here agrees on that
Okay people. . . just so you know what the prompt was. . . we had to write a profile about anyone we want. I thought my boss would be a good subject. This is just a rough draft. . . the final draft is due Monday. My professor seemed to like it so far. Hopefully you guys don't bite my head off for anything inaccurate. Here it is for anyone who wants to torture themself.
?Burt, Mrs. Shershow has a question for you up front,? declares the cashier. As Burt strolls toward the front of the store, he is greeted with a smile by a familiar customer. ?Hi Grace, how are you?? he asks in his relaxed, composed tone. Mrs. Shershow begins to complain about sinus pressure and itchiness. As she rambles about her ailments, Burt gently leads her down an aisle of the store and proceeds to counsel her on different medicinal options.
In a city where the smog torments the sinuses, the sun scorches the skin, and ?Tommy?s? chili-cheeseburgers wreak havoc on the stomach, Burt Sacks is a pharmacist. Burt prefers to be on a first name basis with all those he meets, a testament to his friendly character. His chubby face has wrinkled with age and his thick glasses perch low upon his nose. It is Burt?s thirty-first year as owner of Rancho Park Pharmacy. As his hair has gone from light brown to silver, his medical knowledge has earned him a loyal following in west Los Angeles. Through the years, insurance premiums have continued to rise, as physicians, under the rigidity of managed care, spend less time with patients. Outshined by the more glamorous roles of the healthcare industry (doctors, nurses, paramedics), Burt humbly waits in the shadows, eager to offer his services with a smile.
It?s a busy day in Rancho Park Pharmacy with technicians in a flurry behind the counter and customers lined up at the registers. The occasional raspy cough cuts through the hum of the crowd as squealing children run up and down the aisles. ?I?ll wait for it?but could you please hurry? I have to be somewhere in half an hour,? asks a woman wearing large sunglasses, and reeking of cigarette smoke, as she hands the cashier the prescription slip. To the occasional pharmacy patron, a pharmacist?s job appears straightforward. Sure, the physician?s handwriting on the prescription is difficult to read, but from there it?s simply a matter of pill counting, right? If this were the case, a pharmacist?s education might consist of classes like, ?Reading Long Hand 120b? and ?Elementary Arithmetic 14a.? An older man with thinning, wispy, black hair, wearing a shirt and tie, taps on the plexi-glass, his face contorted with annoyance. ?What?s the hold up?? he sneers. ?Sir, the pharmacist is in the compounding room working on your prescription right now. It?ll be just a few more minutes,? calmly replies one of the pharmacy technicians.
The fact of the matter is that a pharmacy doctorate (a Pharm.D.) typically requires four years after undergraduate work, similar to a physician?s education. During these four years, the pharmacy student undergoes a rigorous curriculum consisting of molecular biology, medicinal chemistry, pharmaceutical statistics, and anatomy/physiology courses in which they dissect and study a cadaver. There are currently only five colleges awarding a Pharm.D. in California. Burt was one of the gifted few to receive a Pharm.D. from USC in the 1960?s. Burt once described his pharmacy school days, ?I would look over my notes for days and I wouldn?t stop until I could recite what was on the next page. You can?t do much more after that.? As necessitated by the ever-changing face of the pharmaceutical industry, Burt is constantly reading-up on new drugs and improved treatments. Burt?s knowledge of pharmaceuticals still amazes his colleagues, even at the age of 63. ?There?s always something new on the market,? Burt explains.
Lunchtime rolls around as a young man, casually dressed in jeans and a T-shirt waits for a consultation regarding his new prescription. After noting the patient?s other medications, Burt advices the young man to minimize sun exposure, avoid taking aspirin, and to drink plenty of water. Like many other neighborhood pharmacists, Burt serves as the final safety check between physician and patient. Many physicians are too busy to inquire about the patient?s other medications and possibly fatal interactions. According to Burt, ?One of the things we keep an eye out for are the vicodin and Tylenol #3 prescriptions. . . Acetomenophen overdose is very dangerous.? Burt believes it is very important that patients are aware of potentially dangerous interactions, proper usage, and possible side effects.
As Burt occupies himself with customers, his newly nuked lunch is forgotten as it begins to cool. Beneath his lunch: photocopied notes, pharmacy magazines, insurance forms, pieces of mail, and various instruction manuals are spread over what once resembled a desk. ?He?s never been the neatest,? explains Kaye, another pharmacist at Rancho Park Pharmacy, ?I guess he doesn?t really settle down long enough to notice messes.? Behind the mounds of paper sits a dusty flat-panel computer monitor displaying endless rows of desktop icons. Burt?s computer hard drive has been filled to capacity with various, never-used programs. Unfortunately, his computer skills do not match his pharmacy skills. According to his employees, ?How do I save this document?? and ?Why did it print like this?? are common phrases around his office. Burt seems determined to learn how to use a computer despite his early difficulties.
Later in the day, a young couple uncomfortably enters the pharmacy and asks to speak with a pharmacist. Burt leads them to the aisle of contraceptives and explains the different benefits of the many early pregnancy detection kits. ?Thank you so much for your help,? the young lady replies as she hands the pharmacy technician her prescription slip. A grey area in the pharmaceutical industry is the dispensing of controversial drugs like medicinal marijuana or RU486 (the morning after pill). Based on moral grounds, some pharmacists choose to deny their customers access to these drugs even with a physician?s prescription. Burt has always willingly filled prescriptions for these controversial drugs, however. According to Burt, ?I?m not one to judge.? The young couple seemed to breathe a little easier as they left the pharmacy that day.
?Hey Burt, where?s Greenfield Street?? asks Mike, the pharmacy?s delivery boy. ?It?s off of National, on the 10500 block,? Burt almost instantaneously replies. Burt has been the owner of Rancho Park Compounding Pharmacy since 1972 when he took it over from his father-in-law. A native of Los Angeles, Burt can give directions to any street address in west Los Angeles. Because Rancho Park Pharmacy has always offered delivery, Burt?s mastery of the streets has helped many of his lost delivery boys through the years. ?I was born and raised here,? explains Burt, ?I can?t imagine living anywhere else.?
Many longtime customers can?t imagine Burt living anywhere else either. Mrs. Parnes, a customer of Burt?s since the late 1970?s, enters the pharmacy with a look of dismay. Burt greets her with a friendly smile and open ears. After they speak in private for a few minutes in one corner of the pharmacy, Burt hands Mrs. Parnes a bottle from one of the many shelves. ?Well, I?ll give it a try. . .? adheres Mrs. Parnes, ?[your recommendation] did seem to help last time, thanks again!? Another satisfied customer.
The sun begins to descend in the horizon as the pharmacy technician fills the last of the prescriptions. ?Thanks Burt, take care now,? says one of the final customers. The cashier closes the black, metal gate as the customer leaves the store. Upon Burt?s desk, a pile of insurance and other paperwork awaits Burt for the next day. With a quick sigh, Burt darts for the back room to remove his lab coat. He is eager to play some golf, his other passion. A quick bucket of balls at the local driving range is just what he needs, but first he picks up the phone. Even Burt, pharmacy extraordinaire, has someone to answer to. ?Hi honey, do you mind if I go to the driving range?? he asks in a submissive tone.
?Burt, Mrs. Shershow has a question for you up front,? declares the cashier. As Burt strolls toward the front of the store, he is greeted with a smile by a familiar customer. ?Hi Grace, how are you?? he asks in his relaxed, composed tone. Mrs. Shershow begins to complain about sinus pressure and itchiness. As she rambles about her ailments, Burt gently leads her down an aisle of the store and proceeds to counsel her on different medicinal options.
In a city where the smog torments the sinuses, the sun scorches the skin, and ?Tommy?s? chili-cheeseburgers wreak havoc on the stomach, Burt Sacks is a pharmacist. Burt prefers to be on a first name basis with all those he meets, a testament to his friendly character. His chubby face has wrinkled with age and his thick glasses perch low upon his nose. It is Burt?s thirty-first year as owner of Rancho Park Pharmacy. As his hair has gone from light brown to silver, his medical knowledge has earned him a loyal following in west Los Angeles. Through the years, insurance premiums have continued to rise, as physicians, under the rigidity of managed care, spend less time with patients. Outshined by the more glamorous roles of the healthcare industry (doctors, nurses, paramedics), Burt humbly waits in the shadows, eager to offer his services with a smile.
It?s a busy day in Rancho Park Pharmacy with technicians in a flurry behind the counter and customers lined up at the registers. The occasional raspy cough cuts through the hum of the crowd as squealing children run up and down the aisles. ?I?ll wait for it?but could you please hurry? I have to be somewhere in half an hour,? asks a woman wearing large sunglasses, and reeking of cigarette smoke, as she hands the cashier the prescription slip. To the occasional pharmacy patron, a pharmacist?s job appears straightforward. Sure, the physician?s handwriting on the prescription is difficult to read, but from there it?s simply a matter of pill counting, right? If this were the case, a pharmacist?s education might consist of classes like, ?Reading Long Hand 120b? and ?Elementary Arithmetic 14a.? An older man with thinning, wispy, black hair, wearing a shirt and tie, taps on the plexi-glass, his face contorted with annoyance. ?What?s the hold up?? he sneers. ?Sir, the pharmacist is in the compounding room working on your prescription right now. It?ll be just a few more minutes,? calmly replies one of the pharmacy technicians.
The fact of the matter is that a pharmacy doctorate (a Pharm.D.) typically requires four years after undergraduate work, similar to a physician?s education. During these four years, the pharmacy student undergoes a rigorous curriculum consisting of molecular biology, medicinal chemistry, pharmaceutical statistics, and anatomy/physiology courses in which they dissect and study a cadaver. There are currently only five colleges awarding a Pharm.D. in California. Burt was one of the gifted few to receive a Pharm.D. from USC in the 1960?s. Burt once described his pharmacy school days, ?I would look over my notes for days and I wouldn?t stop until I could recite what was on the next page. You can?t do much more after that.? As necessitated by the ever-changing face of the pharmaceutical industry, Burt is constantly reading-up on new drugs and improved treatments. Burt?s knowledge of pharmaceuticals still amazes his colleagues, even at the age of 63. ?There?s always something new on the market,? Burt explains.
Lunchtime rolls around as a young man, casually dressed in jeans and a T-shirt waits for a consultation regarding his new prescription. After noting the patient?s other medications, Burt advices the young man to minimize sun exposure, avoid taking aspirin, and to drink plenty of water. Like many other neighborhood pharmacists, Burt serves as the final safety check between physician and patient. Many physicians are too busy to inquire about the patient?s other medications and possibly fatal interactions. According to Burt, ?One of the things we keep an eye out for are the vicodin and Tylenol #3 prescriptions. . . Acetomenophen overdose is very dangerous.? Burt believes it is very important that patients are aware of potentially dangerous interactions, proper usage, and possible side effects.
As Burt occupies himself with customers, his newly nuked lunch is forgotten as it begins to cool. Beneath his lunch: photocopied notes, pharmacy magazines, insurance forms, pieces of mail, and various instruction manuals are spread over what once resembled a desk. ?He?s never been the neatest,? explains Kaye, another pharmacist at Rancho Park Pharmacy, ?I guess he doesn?t really settle down long enough to notice messes.? Behind the mounds of paper sits a dusty flat-panel computer monitor displaying endless rows of desktop icons. Burt?s computer hard drive has been filled to capacity with various, never-used programs. Unfortunately, his computer skills do not match his pharmacy skills. According to his employees, ?How do I save this document?? and ?Why did it print like this?? are common phrases around his office. Burt seems determined to learn how to use a computer despite his early difficulties.
Later in the day, a young couple uncomfortably enters the pharmacy and asks to speak with a pharmacist. Burt leads them to the aisle of contraceptives and explains the different benefits of the many early pregnancy detection kits. ?Thank you so much for your help,? the young lady replies as she hands the pharmacy technician her prescription slip. A grey area in the pharmaceutical industry is the dispensing of controversial drugs like medicinal marijuana or RU486 (the morning after pill). Based on moral grounds, some pharmacists choose to deny their customers access to these drugs even with a physician?s prescription. Burt has always willingly filled prescriptions for these controversial drugs, however. According to Burt, ?I?m not one to judge.? The young couple seemed to breathe a little easier as they left the pharmacy that day.
?Hey Burt, where?s Greenfield Street?? asks Mike, the pharmacy?s delivery boy. ?It?s off of National, on the 10500 block,? Burt almost instantaneously replies. Burt has been the owner of Rancho Park Compounding Pharmacy since 1972 when he took it over from his father-in-law. A native of Los Angeles, Burt can give directions to any street address in west Los Angeles. Because Rancho Park Pharmacy has always offered delivery, Burt?s mastery of the streets has helped many of his lost delivery boys through the years. ?I was born and raised here,? explains Burt, ?I can?t imagine living anywhere else.?
Many longtime customers can?t imagine Burt living anywhere else either. Mrs. Parnes, a customer of Burt?s since the late 1970?s, enters the pharmacy with a look of dismay. Burt greets her with a friendly smile and open ears. After they speak in private for a few minutes in one corner of the pharmacy, Burt hands Mrs. Parnes a bottle from one of the many shelves. ?Well, I?ll give it a try. . .? adheres Mrs. Parnes, ?[your recommendation] did seem to help last time, thanks again!? Another satisfied customer.
The sun begins to descend in the horizon as the pharmacy technician fills the last of the prescriptions. ?Thanks Burt, take care now,? says one of the final customers. The cashier closes the black, metal gate as the customer leaves the store. Upon Burt?s desk, a pile of insurance and other paperwork awaits Burt for the next day. With a quick sigh, Burt darts for the back room to remove his lab coat. He is eager to play some golf, his other passion. A quick bucket of balls at the local driving range is just what he needs, but first he picks up the phone. Even Burt, pharmacy extraordinaire, has someone to answer to. ?Hi honey, do you mind if I go to the driving range?? he asks in a submissive tone.
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You're a good writer. I like it.
"Advices" should be "advises" though 🙂
"Advices" should be "advises" though 🙂
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Terrific job on the profile, Redrum! Reading it felt like I spent a day at Rancho Park Pharmacy...and it's kinda inspirational! (Sorry I didn't bite your head off! 😉 )
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I really enjoyed it redrum. You definately have some writing ability. I can't write anything except lab reports.
Well done, Redrum!
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Excellent! Well done.🙂
Thanks BMbiology. . . I forgot about Loma Linda.
