My PI and I don't really get along that well. However, out of all my letter writers he knows me the best (the other letters will be mostly "this guy was in my class blah blah blah"). He's told me before that he doesn't write negative things in letters (because that would kill the student's chances at admission) but may have a lack of positive things to say. To be honest, this worries me a lot and I don't trust him enough to waive my right to see the letter. How would medical schools see a non-waived letter of rec? Should I even ask him for one or just pick another person?
Unwaived letter of rec from PI ok?
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It is not worth submitting if you do not waive the right to see it.
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Pick another person.
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That is a tough spot to be in 🙁
Although I would hope the professor/PI would not bad-mouth you in a LOR, I am not sure if a lukewarm letter would be better than a potentially negative letter in your case.
I do not think a letter that has not had access waived would be taken as serious as one with a waiver, however.
FWIW, I was in the same position and I declined the letter from my PI in favor of some "lukewarm" but definitely not negative letters. Best of luck to you!
Although I would hope the professor/PI would not bad-mouth you in a LOR, I am not sure if a lukewarm letter would be better than a potentially negative letter in your case.
I do not think a letter that has not had access waived would be taken as serious as one with a waiver, however.
FWIW, I was in the same position and I declined the letter from my PI in favor of some "lukewarm" but definitely not negative letters. Best of luck to you!
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You want someone who likes you, not just tolerates you. I imagine adcoms can sense if the writer really likes the person vs. is just talking about the "on paper" good things.
Why did you end up choosing lukewarm instead of potentially negative letter from PI? Just to play it safe?
I was thinking I might ask him point blank if he will be able to write me a good letter of rec. He is a very direct person but I still feel like he secretly dislikes me (unfounded? I don't know but that's my gut feeling).
Is it worth taking the chance if he says yes? He probably wouldn't lie to me just to undermine my application right?
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Just a tip... always ask for an *excellent* LOR, not a good one!
Exactly... I chose a neutral letter to play it safe. I have busted my arse up to this point and was not going to let an iffy relationship with a single professor throw it all away. I would just not take the risk if I were you. I do not recall which ADCOM on here said that a lukewarm/neutral letter is more favorable than a negative LOR.
If there have been confrontations in the past, you never know if he/she may try to get back at you. And making sure you receive a negative LOR would be a good way to show you that they have more power over you. Try not to let that happen!
Exactly... I chose a neutral letter to play it safe. I have busted my arse up to this point and was not going to let an iffy relationship with a single professor throw it all away. I would just not take the risk if I were you. I do not recall which ADCOM on here said that a lukewarm/neutral letter is more favorable than a negative LOR.
If there have been confrontations in the past, you never know if he/she may try to get back at you. And making sure you receive a negative LOR would be a good way to show you that they have more power over you. Try not to let that happen!
You're totally right it would be so messed up if this one letter screws up my chances to get into medical school. I feel like that happened with the private schools I applied to in high school too! This means all my recommendations will be from people who barely know me. I hope that doesn't hurt me too much...
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At the expense of asking the obvious, are you sure that your PI does not like you? Have you asked him if he's willing to write you a very strong letter? Also, is there anybody in the lab who can confirm that the PI would not write you a good letter?
FWIW, I was in a similar situation with a PI who often seemed frustrated with my work, and I was certain that the PI would not write a good LOR given our interactions. I asked a research fellow for my LOR instead, but she said that apparently my PI did like me a lot. I still had my doubts but I got into medical school with my PI's letter, so the letter couldn't have been that damning.
I'd recommend asking your PI and residents/fellows first to confirm your suspicions. You won't be worse off by asking them, and may even be pleasantly surprised.
If you do choose to use their letter, waive your right to see it. Unwaived letters are virtually useless, and can be a slap in the face to the writer. And if you don't trust your PI, find someone else. Good luck!
FWIW, I was in a similar situation with a PI who often seemed frustrated with my work, and I was certain that the PI would not write a good LOR given our interactions. I asked a research fellow for my LOR instead, but she said that apparently my PI did like me a lot. I still had my doubts but I got into medical school with my PI's letter, so the letter couldn't have been that damning.
I'd recommend asking your PI and residents/fellows first to confirm your suspicions. You won't be worse off by asking them, and may even be pleasantly surprised.
If you do choose to use their letter, waive your right to see it. Unwaived letters are virtually useless, and can be a slap in the face to the writer. And if you don't trust your PI, find someone else. Good luck!
The application process is very nerve-wracking. Don't let the neuroticism get to you.
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Thanks for asking this. To be honest, I don't know for sure if he doesn't like me- that's just the impression I get from our interactions and the way he treats other students (way better from my biased POV). I plan on asking him to write me a good letter of rec soon (at least to see what he says). I doubt he will write me a strong letter of rec- he's openly discussed his writing of letters for other students with me and told me (this was a couple months ago) that he didn't have many positive things to say about me at the moment. I don't know if his thoughts on me have improved since then or not.
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Ouch. Hopefully that conversation happened shortly after you joined the lab.. At the very least, he's honest about what he thinks. He clearly spares no punches
.You can always start the conversation by asking for an assessment of your performance before 'making the ask'. This can help gauge how enthusiastic and supportive he'll be of your application.
The question is now whether an unwaived letter from a guy who is familiar with me is better or worse than a waived letter from a guy who doesn't know me at all. I'm ok with an unwaived letter being virtually useless as long as it doesn't hurt me more than a generic "this guy was in my class and got an A in my class..."
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An unwaived letter reflects poorly on the applicant.
It is also extremely uncommon.
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Am unwaived LOR is worse because the reader will assume that the writer was unable to be completely objective.
